<p>Just one final note on the movie - it will impact you the most if you have a hs similar to those shown in the movie or a kid who is aiming at top schools and is stressed and overloaded like those in the movie. If those situations do not apply to you - you may find it ridiculous. I heard one person I watched it with - a guy in his 20s who attended Towson and is not yet married - criticize the film tremendously. And I felt like yelling at him that of course he didn’t get it - he had not experienced anything like that. </p>
<p>It had me in tears - because virtually every scene applied to my experiences with S1. High school changed him. I saw a kid who had been pretty happy and relaxed turn into a stressed out kid who was so focused on the future that he was not enjoying the present. Simple things - like reading for pleasure - which he had loved to do - fell by the wayside. So - my final words on “Race to Nowhere” - if you have a kid who is stressed or driven or aiming for top 25 schools - you owe it to yourself and you child to see this film. Otherwise - purely optional.</p>
<p>I think the lessons of Race to Nowhere can be applied to nonacademic parts of life as well–travel sports; accumulation of extracurricular activities to improve a resume; religious activities pushed by the parent, rather than the child; etc</p>
<p>On the driven student: S1 just about religously stuck to his video game time a couple of hours a night several nights a week and almost no matter what, schoolwork stopped by 11:00 PM. I didn’t appreciate it then but I think I do now.</p>
<p>On B schools. I haven’t looked at programs at smaller schools but at both UT Austin and TAMU both huge schools you can apply and get admitted to the B school as a freshman and then declare your major in the school around soph. year. You can also transfer in at both schools later on. The obvious advantage is if you’re admitted as a freshman you are in. You can always transfer out. The catch is that you are admitted to the b-school separately from being admitted to the college.</p>
<p>I/we haven’t seen the film yet, but I was especially planning on doing so for my B kid, not my A kid. The counselor at D2’s school specifically recommended that I take D2 to see the film. D2, who is in 9th grade, was stressing about college, saying that since her school doesn’t offer AP courses that she won’t be able to get into a “good” college. Well, yeah, her school doesn’t offer APs because it’s a population of kids who have other stressors in their lives (learning disabilities/differences/what have you) and who don’t need massive AP stress. And even if they did offer them, I wouldn’t want D2 taking them in the same copious amounts that D1 has done, because D2 would fall apart with the stress. A community college class or two in 11th and 12th grade, that’ll be fine. But not the type of workload profiled in “Race”.</p>
<p>Now this is not likely to reduce stress ;-), but I do want to mention that if a teen is really motivated and wants to do one or more APs, this is possible, even if his school doesn’t offer AP courses. He can self-study for the exams or take AP courses through a provider such as Keystone. It’s then a matter of finding a school where he can take the tests and paying the exam fees.</p>
<p>“I heard one person I watched it with - a guy in his 20s who attended Towson and is not yet married - criticize the film tremendously.”</p>
<p>That’s interesting, Rockvillemom, because I went with a friend who has preschool children and she also thought that it was ridiculous because she thought that parents should be able to control the level of stress in their children’s lives…that the parents absolutely had a choice to limit this stress…at one point I heard her say out loud “Just send your kid to a different school!” I pointed out that as kids go into adolescence the peer group has more and more influence over them, and that the parents’ role can only go so far…and that sometimes sending a kid to a different school just isn’t an option.
Adolescence itself can be so stressful! I think that sometimes the social aspects can be more stressful than the academic ones…
That being said, some stress can be good because it motivates us! I remember when our S1 was kind of hanging out with an unmotivated group of kids, not pursuing any interests, and then a GF suddenly took an interest in him - this girl could have stepped off the screen of the movie with the amount of pressure she puts on herself! She whipped our S1 into shape - got him involved in ECs, studied with him, made him do well in school, encouraged leadership, and had him make intellectual connections that he had not made before. We will be eternally grateful to this GF - they are no longer together but she still maintains a great relationship with our whole family. Nevertheless, we are concerned about her and what she does to herself with her stress level. The trick is to find the balance - enough stress to motivate, not enough to get sick over it!</p>
<p>I believe CLEP tests are administered throughout the year (more flexible that way than AP). </p>
<p>Being awarded credit can mean saving $, and college is expensive these days, for sure!</p>
<p>Apologies if this just sounds like added burden. Putting info out there in case people aren’t aware of CLEP. CLEP might be more doable for some than AP (something of an in between option?).</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for your input and advice!</p>
<p>I think I am the one who needs to see the movie, not my kids! My kids seem to know their strengths and limitations pretty well. Way better than I did when I was their age!</p>
<p>My S1 chose his college very methodically based on many criteria: if he wanted a tippy top school, he could have applied but knew the type of programs, setting, courses he was looking for and went with that! He took all honors and AP’s but he did not stress out about any of them except for Physics! (He is NOT a Physics person:))</p>
<p>My S2 is not in any way worried about getting into a top college. In fact, he says to me not to talk about it with him for at least another year or so! He’s taking 3 honors and totally comfortable with that. May take honors instead of AP for as long as he can, which I’m also ok with.</p>
<p>I’m the one that has to give S2 the space to grow without harping on him too much. He had an A- in Geometry honors this year and then blew the test with a 64. Of course his grade went down a full point to a B-. He did the right thing by going to the teacher after school right away and found that his mistakes were careless ones. I told him that he should see the teacher BEFORE the test, but my sister said, why would he, he had an A- average! I hate it when my kids make careless mistakes when they know the material! Arrgh! :(</p>
<p>I have been trying to see if there is any other school in the Carolinas to look at. The UNC schools (not Chapel Hill that is for A students) have been at all the college fairs up here, and are looking for OOS.</p>
<p>Wilmington has the programs we are looking for, near the beach, nice size just under 10,000 and a good back up for B & C students. Listed as more selective in US News Rankings. Didn’t make Princeton’s top 373 book, but Greesnboro did. Not that I always listen to rankings, but it does offer some perspective.</p>
<p>BUT, here is what the Hillel contact had to say:
There are currently 63 students on our Hillel list which simply means these students have expressed an interest in what we are doing. I would say that we have a core of about 20 students who come to our events regularly with about 9-10 students who attend intermittently. The sad fact is that many college students have to work or just have too much going on in their lives. I know of two students on the list who email me pretty regularly but are never able to attend events because of work conflicts which I completely understand. However, they like to stay connected to Hillel because (as one student put it) you just never know when it might work out.</p>
<p>We sponsor many events on campus such as concerts (Josh Nelson in August & Yasmin Levy in February). We promote lectures and seminars related to Judaism such as one that was held last night by a Holocaust Studies professor. UNCW just hired a Jewish Studies professor. The students have been working with him to promote some of his classes and he has given a talks. His focus is on Jewish Humor so that always goes over very well with students, especially when he pulls out Seinfeld clips. We also participate in charitable works on campus such as “Stop Hunger Now” where Hillel students helped to package food for shipment to Haiti. Once a month, we have Shabbat dinner at the home of a community member. The students also have regular social functions such pizza parties and the like either off or on campus. We do not have an office or room on campus so I try to coordinate with students who would like to participate in religious functions, especially around the High Holy Days and Passover. Right now, I am working on putting together the different options for students who will be in town during Passover. </p>
<p>This is not enough community for us. Also not sure how much this is a commuter school. Will try to find out more on Greensboro. There biz school is highly regarded.</p>
<p>Samtalya - I also looked at UNC Wilmington as a possible safety school for S2 and decided it was not worth it - we’d pay less and have a better Jewish community at Towson. But it did look nice!</p>
<p>We met the Hillel rep last year when we visited. She was a lovely young woman and she was quite honest about the level of Jewishness on campus (not much). We didn’t really like the school or the surrounding area so it was an easy one to cross off the list. We have visited Greensboro bc we have (Jewish) cousins there. I don’t know about the university’s Jewish activities, but I liked the town, though my d thought it was way too quiet.</p>
<p>Chocchip: FWIW, My S1’s senior year was S2’s freshman year. S2 watched how consumed we (I) was with the college search, visits, CC etc that once it was all settled for S1 he also made it clear that he didn’t want to hear a word about the college search. He really didn’t like to see me on CC. Finally this year as a Junior I told him it is tme. He agreed, but so far he is making the process as simple as possible. He visited 2 publics and as far as he is concerned he is happy about college and is done with the seach. I’m accumulating a backup list in case things change.</p>
<p>I have a vague recollection of this being discussed before though it may have been elsewhere, but I’m really curious: is there really “value” majoring in business as an undergrad? I’ve gotten the impression that most real job opportunities require post grad work in business school like an MBA but that many businesses who hire directly out of college prefer a well rounded graduate with perhaps some background in business courses. A number of my daughter’s friends went from Colgate to Wall Street or other larger businesses and my son, who originally contemplated applying to the Ross school at Michigan, didn’t but has had pretty good success finding business internships and even getting to interview at UBS.</p>
<p>For those of you whose sons or daughters want to major in business, what is their game plan?</p>
<p>mhc, my S wants to study entrepreneurship, because he wants to open his own business. He has been involved with martial arts for a long time and may want to open a school in his association. It can be lucrative if he can own more than one school. It makes send for him to major in entrepreneurship if a school has it, or if not then business management with an entrepreneur track.</p>
<p>He also loves history, so I am sure he will take courses in that area too. I think he would make a great HS history teacher.</p>
<p>My H is an accountant by trade and is the CFO and VP of a company. I have owned two businesses, so I think it is in his blood. </p>
<p>If he wants to get an MBA, we will insist that he work a year or two before going back to school, so that he does get experience and can solidify the area of business he wants to pursue.</p>
<p>mhc - I see that topic debated a lot also - but it is generally along the lines of making the assumption that a student will go on to grad school and get a MBA - and hence the undergraduate degree in business being unnecessary. DH and I both have undergraduate business degrees and that has worked well for us. My personal standpoint on this issue is wanting my sons to be employable after college graduation without assuming they will immediately go on to law school, MBA program, etc. But - I do like the idea of a liberal arts minor to show critical reasoning/writing skills.</p>
<p>S1 is majoring in finance and minoring in political science. S2 - current plan is to major in sports mgmt with a minor in business, or major in something business related like marketing and minor in psychology, etc. I just think that this is a more practical approach for those not planning an immediate next step to grad school.</p>
<p>I also believe that internships and summer jobs during college will be a key part of this strategy. S1 has been working for a sports team at his university for over a year now and will continue to do so. Hoping to land a job that combines business and sports upon graduation.</p>
<p>So - since I had some time today - I did an EFC calculator to see what our EFC would look like for the 2012-13 year with 2 kids in college. It was pretty darn low! Kind of embarrassing actually - I don’t feel quite that poor! And this has me re-thinking one of my earliest criteria - which was no $50,000+ schools. Maybe I have it backwards? With S1 - the most expensive school on his list also gave us the most FA - bringing it down to an amount we can afford. Now I’m thinking it might be a good idea to have S2 apply to Univ. of Miami, etc. and see how much FA he gets rather than trying to be full pay at less expensive schools. I know I have said previously how much I hate being dependent on FA every year - I really, really dislike it - but it might just be a better plan.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: Please keep in mind that there are still plenty of potentially expensive unknowns beyond undergrad tuition such as grad school, buying cars, help with down payments, funding your retirement, etc. etc. I agree that your son will likely get great financial and/or merit aid packages. However, with many financial aid packages, there is likely to be some loans (I hate the idea of having loans upon graduation). </p>
<p>Therefore, I think you should just have your son apply to the schools which you all think is best fit for him. It is ok to include University of Miami and other expensive privates and just see how it all turns out. Some private schools are known to give better financial aid than others and you might want to research which privates give good aid (mostly grants, etc.)</p>
<p>I wish my S did the same as yours RVM. He loves sports and business and in HS often talked about working in a sports related area of business. I actually encouraged him to apply to Michigan’s easier to get into School of Kinesthesiology instead of Arts and Science or transfer. But he didn’t think that would work. Now he’s majoring in Psychology which seemed to me to be just about he most useless major you could have if you don’t have a strong desire to continue in that field. (maybe even if you do).</p>
<p>Still, he’s got drive and so far has had success in getting business internships in which he’s done well. </p>
<p>My older D majored in Anthropolgy which I thought was even more worthless as far as getting a job after college. But she too got internships and a job right out of college in the business side of advertising which she likes and is doing very well in.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think that college majors may have little impact on where we end up. It didn’t for me either come to think of it.</p>
<p>Impressive SUNY Binghamton open house: Now back home after attending a local SUNY Binghamton open house for accepted students. I encourage everyone on this thread to seriously consider Binghamton. Some of the highlights of this school: Very comfortable for Jewish kids with 3 rabbis at Chabad, a rabbi at Hillel, more than one study abroad program in Israel. 400 companies coming to the job fair. Around 3 job offers for Accounting majors (and B-school students?), bowling alley, movie theatre, lots going on campus. </p>
<p>The main problem with Binghamton concerns the highly competitive nature of getting into the School of Management for Accounting. Accounting is one of the top programs in the U.S. Alternative is to major in Actuarial Science or Economics and do a 5th year for an MBA.</p>
<p>We think it will be easier to get into B-school for Accounting at Towson. Except for the difficulty getting into Accounting, Binghamton looks awesome for almost every other major.</p>
<p>I concur with mdcissp to the extent that many /most FA packages have larger loan components than people realize. You get the package, are grateful for the overall number and rationalize that given the school’s generosity, the loan part sounds reasonable and managable. It is, but multiplied by four it mounts up quickly.</p>