<p>Rockvillemom - sorry the trip to Elon wasn’t what you wanted it to be. I have a funny feeling that your S may just love VT. Partly because that school was his idea and also, I think that school has so many of the things that he is looking for. I have to say that everyone I know who has gone to VT from people my age to friends children has just loved it. </p>
<p>Spectrum - regarding the ACT, my D took it for the first time this weekend. The first time she took a practice test, not only didn’t she finish any of the sections, but math/science she didn’t even come close to finishing. She did minimal prep work for the test. She probably did another 3 science and math section tests, but was able to figure out a strategy to get them done in time. English and reading I think she did maybe 2 practice tests. She is a good test taker so was able to get up to speed fairly quickly once she understood the test. I really think practicing is a good idea to get the speed up. Also, what helped D was NOT reading the science passages first. She read the questions then was able to skim through the passages and look at the graphs, etc. to find the answers. She said she had plenty of time for reading, english and math. Ran out of time on the last science question, so made a guess on that. Now we just have to see the scores! But I think with the ACT finishing is half the battle.</p>
<p>mdmom - one thing I regret from this visit is that we did too many formal sessions - might have been better to skip some of those and spend more time one-on-one. I actually have a contact from CC of a Jewish boy who is a freshman and a sports mgmt major and his Dad describes him as quiet - maybe I should have tried to set up that meeting - oh well. Live and learn.</p>
<p>RVM:Time with other students is so valuable in assessing fit. I really appreciated schools that offered breakout sessions without parents present and overnights. Who knows, S1 may have appeared disinterested at these but he always had more to say after this sort of thing than at anything we attended together. S2 on the otherhand is an open book, he even shushed my H and I when whispering at an info session. Like all things different approaches speak differently to different people. I hope you don’t encounter anymore suits :).</p>
<p>spectrum, first of all congratulations to your son on his outstanding school performance this year. From what you have said earlier in the thread, he really wants to attend a Texas state university where being in the top 10% of the class is the most important thing.
I think that the avodah program does a lot more for what really matters in life - menschkeit - than any SAT or ACT score! I would not have him give up that program!
Instead - let me ask you this. Does he have to take SAT subject tests for his target schools?
If not, you DO have time for him to prepare for the June SAT - starting now. If you just have him come up with the idea of spending 20 to 25 minutes a day on this, every single day, it can be done (if he comes up with the idea - you will have buy-in. Your trick is to get him to come up with the idea). Then, give him a little quiz from majortests.com, or one section of a Kaplan review book (I am saying Kaplan because the EXPLANATIONS are way superior to the others - the explanations in the College Board book are terrible in my opinion, even if the books are supposed to mirror the real test). Have him do one quiz or section UNTIMED, every day. Then, check his answers and - this is very, very important - have him go over the ones he got wrong with the explanations so that he understands them.
If he does this every day until the June test - he will improve!
My sons, by the way, have both been teachers/tutors for Ivy Insiders. They have taught classes for two or three weeks straight, every day, for three or so hours a day. A schedule like this might fit into your son’s schedule, even with the avodah program. My sons have also have done private tutoring, targeted toward the students’ needs, on the students’ schedules. They generally get a 200-300 point improvement in the overall SAT, but in fairness, 100 points of that is usually writing, which they say is the easiest to improve. You did not report a writing score - is this because the Texas universities do not care about it?</p>
<p>Rockvillemom, you are going to laugh at me but really think about this: have you ever thought about letting your son take a Dale Carnegie course? I have heard that EVERYONE improves in those courses. The reason that I am asking is that those skills that the “suited” students at Elon have are going to be important for your son in most fields - and particularly in sports management or psychology. Seriously. If he absolutely does not want to develop those skills, there are jobs out there for him - but they are not the jobs that one thinks of with those majors. (I am thinking some kind of technology-oriented field, where the marketing skills would still help but not be as essential.) Yes, he may “grow into” these skills but maybe he could use a little boost with this. Just learning how to ask questions of adults to get them talking is an excellent skill to have, and not too hard to learn once kids get the hang of it. I am not saying that he should change his personality - I am just saying that there are skills to learn that would benefit him in his career!
A friend of mine just today told me that he is a “closet introvert”. If you met him, you would think that he is the most outgoing, poised, personable, able to market person you have ever met, and he has been very successful in his career and as a community volunteer. Apparently, he feels like an introvert who overcomes this to be successful. I think that there are many people out there like this - but there are also people who did not overcome their tendency and the skill gap in this area has not allowed them to reach their full potential.</p>
<p>I have been quite ill this past week or so and have done quite a bit of sleeping.</p>
<p>I feel like I’ve missed everyone’s important points:</p>
<p>1)RVM: It seems to me that S2 still likes Elon, but wants to pursue other college options. That’s great! If he doesn’t end up studying business, that’s not the end of the road either…he could study sports management/psych as an undegrad and maybe sports management with business in a 5 year program for grad degree? Do they have a one year program to get the business grad degree?</p>
<p>With a few other liklie’s on your list, you have no idea where he’ll end up until it’s a done deal! (Of course you know that there’s a good possibility he could chance his mind again even at the school he selects! :eek:)</p>
<p>2) Spectrum: Sounds like your S id doing what he needs to be doing to get into TAMU? Am I right? Too much reading for me to go back to all the threads.</p>
<p>3) Levirm: I took the Dale Carnegie courses, actually I was already out of college, but they helped me in my first business job immensley, working in groups of teams, getting up to make speeches, preparing to make speeches, etc…yes, very helpful for any person to take, college age or not!</p>
<p>4) So, Samtayla, if my S2 has some ADD tendencies, he would be better off taking the ACT? Are there review courses for the ACT the same way we took the princeton Review for the SAT? We need a doctor’s not for the child to sit in a room where the testing is at a slower pace?</p>
<p>Could someone look at my summary and tell me if i understand what you are all discussing? Thanks! :)</p>
<p>Spectrum2: I don’t think it’s already been said, but schools have no way of knowing whether SAT/ACT are taken w/ extended time or other accommodations. That’s up to the student to reveal if, for some reason, he wants to. </p>
<p>Also, just FYI, the College Board (SATs) seems to be more accommodating regarding accommodations than the ACT testing board. My S1 who is dyslexic, took the SAT w/ time and a half, and the ability to use a laptop for the essay. He was in a conference room w/ one of his teachers and actually finished early because all the bubbles didn’t have to be filled in by an entire room of students :). The ACT board also approved time and a half, but would not approve the use of a laptop for the essay. </p>
<p>He has used accommodations all through high school, something that his school said would be necessary to show a track record of needing accommodations. At this stage in the game, it may not even be possible to have them approved. Good luck with whatever you decide.</p>
<p>We once had a math tutor who had collected a bunch of articles suggesting that kids with ADHD did better on the ACT. I think the only way to know is to have your child take both and see how he does. I know there are prep programs for the ACT, but in the northeast they may not be as prevalent. I do think prepping is easier in that the ACT is more knowledge based than the SAT and less tricks.</p>
<p>My kids were awfully nice to bring home & share with me every strain of cold/flu out there! I told them thank you so much for sharing! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I clearly need an extra day or two of rest to be up and running again. Again, next year when S2 is a sophomore, he will sit for both psat and plan test. I’ll get guidance as to which to take, if not both, after those results may also get some guidance from PCP about taking meds to take some of the test taking anxiety away…something that he does in some of his harder (honors) classes now. Never really thought that there was an anxiety med. for normal test taking, so hopefully we can give that a try to see if it makes a difference.</p>
<p>RVM: Things will fall into place. Good luck on your next two visits. Is he leaning toward VTech? Maybe he wants the rah-rah atmosphere and is not quite sure what he wants to study exactly, so a school like that may have more options then he had thought about before. Teenagers!!!</p>
<p>Thank you Levirm and Umich, Chocchip, I hope you feel better. Chocchip I’ll try and catch you up to my saga, those of you keeping up may want to skip this.</p>
<p>Actually Chocchip is right S’s first choice now is TAMU(Texas A&M) it was UT Austin but after our campus visits that changed. Barring a major meltdown these last 9 weeks of school, he will have the rank to auto-admit to both. His standardized test scores are however not near the level of S2’s rank and grades. </p>
<p>S basically doesn’t care about these scores he’s content with where he is. I on the other hand am concerned. S could change his mind and want to go to a school where scores will count, scores, grades and rank together could qualify him for scholarships but the biggest concern is he needs a 1250 for admission to the TAMU honors program which would get him priority registration and I think that is a big deal. He also took the ACT on Sat and didn’t get to a whopping 40 questions!!! I am working on trying to figure out the most efficient way for S to improve his scores considering he is likely to be away most of the summer and then there are those pesky applications to deal with in the little time he has. There is also a little thought that maybe I should just layoff and let things just fall into place without sweatng it. Very much not my style.</p>
<p>So here’s where the discussion of ADHD comes in. My S and also Samytalya’s S have this diagnosis. Our discussion about the ACT came down to the ACT being more time pressure but also more straight forward to review for. Sam’s S couldn’t get accommodations my S hasn’t tried for them but following all of the discussion I am going to look into it. Sam has since answered your question about the ACT and ADHD. It may be easier to qualify for accommodations for the ACT but according to U mich the SAT may provide more accommodations.</p>
<p>That is about it for the history if I have been keeping up. My S was just diagnosed the start of junior year so if you want any information about that since it sounds like you may be thinking that your S is on the same schedule, PM me.</p>
<p>Hi - thanks for the Dale Carnegie idea - I know he would say no if I suggested it - but it really is a very good idea. S2 takes after DH - who is also quiet. S2 is fine in familiar settings - with his friends - at BBYO - at school - but in a new situation he is pretty subdued. He absolutely makes progress every year - but I agree that in many job settings - whether it is an interview or whatever - the more outgoing, self-confident person will do better than the shy introvert. Levirm - I like the description of your friend working to overcome his natural quiet nature when he needs to - not that one should be fake - but there are situations where you have to be able to push yourself a bit to be more outgoing. I think this is something DH has always struggled with - so there may be a genetic component. So - I may not act on it now - but perhaps in a year or two - it would be worth pursuing.</p>
<p>On a related note - S2 does get it. He told me that he is really trying to participate more and speak up more in the 2 classes where he plans to ask the teacher for a recommendation - so I know he understands that he can’t just sit there like a statue and expect a good rec.</p>
<p>chocchip - hope you feel better soon.</p>
<p>SockherMom - I think Drexel might be too urban - but we’ll see how he likes CofC. If he decides he likes that environment - I will add some additional urban campuses.</p>
<p>Levirm: Happily S doesn’t have to take any subject tests and he is already signed up for the SAT in June courtesy of Texas that provides a free test for Juniors and at the time S picked the SAT. </p>
<p>I like the thought of 20 to 25 min/day every day,but getting S to come up with the idea, not so easy. I touched on that challenge this evening and what it comes down to is S doesn’t believe he can do better or at least as well as he needs to 1250 SAT, or 28 ACT. Because he doesn’t believe he can do it he doesn’t want to invest tons time trying. I guess I need to figure out what to do with that. I really appreciate your strategies and some of the others mentioned. If we get buy in on review I will try and follow the great suggestions you and several others have provided. I don’t see a 10 point increase in verbal and an 80 point increase in math unrealistic at all for him. That is what he needs on the ACT and yes, Texas schools don’t use the writing section. Unfortunately for him, in math his problem isn’t so much understanding the concepts as it is not making foolish errors since he doesn’t have time to check is work. Generally in math his test grades are 95 to 100 when he can check his work and 75 to 85 when he can’t. He has so far never been able to fix that.</p>
<p>I am also going to explore the possibility of getting accommodations for the ACT over the next week. RVM was kind enough to share this link with me <a href=“http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/ext-time.pdf[/url]”>http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/ext-time.pdf</a> I’m passing it on in case anyone else has the same concern. I am afraid that our biggest obsticle will be the lack of a 504 or history of accommodation. Its not that accommodations would have never helped just that it hasn’t seemed critical. I am seeing that the sheer length of these exams is a major challenge to focus. Probably for everyone but especially for those with attention issues. </p>
<p>RVM: This probably isn’t your S’s style either but I can’t say enough how helpful debate was for my quiet older S. I think it was life changing. I expect that any debate or oral interpretation that a kid who is not public speaking oriented can get involved with can make a big big difference.</p>
<p>Another good idea - thanks. The funny thing is - I know he CAN do it when he is in his comfort zone. He has run for election within his AZA chapter several times - some wins - some losses - but this always requires him to get dressed up - in a suit! - and make a speech in front of his chapter. I read his last speech and it was pretty funny. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for the presentation. </p>
<p>I am going to gently nudge him to speak up a bit on the college visits next week. Even if we just set a modest goal of him asking 1 or 2 questions of the tour guide - I think this is something he needs to do. I am going to equate it to the ACT - not a natural skill for him - but with patience and practice - he improved greatly. He has 16 months until he leaves for college - so this is something we can work on between now and then.</p>
<p>rvm, he’s motivated to go on these school visits right now. I think that’s enough. You don’t want to add stress or make it feel like a chore such that he no longer wants to go. I say let him go at his own pace, and set an interesting seder table.</p>
<p>Deborah - that’s where I am uncertain. I can easily build a case for letting him proceed at his own pace - as he becomes more confident and more willing to speak up in social or unfamiliar settings every year. But I can also see where his skills are a little lacking. I can make an excuse and just say he is naturally quiet and shy. Or, I can encourage him to break out of his comfort zone a bit. But you are right that I want him to enjoy these next college visits and not feel undue pressure. Maybe I’ll just remind him that I am not a mind reader and that if he has questions - he should ask - and see what happens.</p>
<p>rvm, what about asking if he has any questions about VT since that was a school he asked to visit. Then suggest he write them down and keep them in his pocket, so if the answers aren’t covered he can feel comfortable reading from his sheet. Maybe if he has something in front of him, he will be more ready to ask.</p>
<p>mhc - I guess in a large group setting - like a crowded tour over spring break - it really does not matter. But I was disappointed with his behavior at Elon. He had the opportunity to meet the rep for our state - and he said hi and shook his hand - but that was about it. That was a golden opportunity to make a good first impression and while I don’t think he made a bad impression - he may have made not much of an impression at all. He had the opportunity to meet with the 2 Hillel guys and speak with them - and while he did do so - I can’t say that it was a great conversation. I think his body language and demeanor conveyed that he was not that into it and was ready to hit the road. My gut feeling is that if he would participate more and be more engaged in these visits - he would get more out of them and I would have more insight into what he is thinking. But don’t worry - I won’t push - I’ll make the suggestion once and leave it at that.</p>
<p>samtalya - this conversation reminds me of the prep I did with him before his Bar Mitzvah. Besides the obvious practicing of his Torah portion, his speech, etc., we also spent time practicing “social chit chat”. We went through photo albums - refreshed his memory on who relatives that he does not see often were - and practiced answering the types of questions people ask a kid that age. I think this really helped him - he was not nervous - did a great job - and was actually quite at ease conversing with family and friends. So - I was just thinking along those lines.</p>