<p>I don’t know if this will help but when I went on college visits with my quiet S1 we had several opportunities for one on one discussions, either with profs, or admissions people. Initially I felt I had to interject because I could feel these painful pauses in the conversation. That made me more dominant than I wanted to be or should have been. S and I talked about it and I told him I was going to work really hard to be as quiet as possible and only ask the questions I absolutely had to. We talked about things he would discuss before meetings and I also encouraged him to think about his meeting with the particular person he was meeting with and he went in thinking about how he was going to direct the conversation. He did get a lot better at it but he was always more verbal in the one on one discussions than with the large group. He did however initiate some questions in those as well from time to time. I saw him grow up a lot with that process. I also think we learned a lot with the one on one meetings.</p>
<p>That sounds like an ideal strategy. My guess is that since our visits next week are taking place during spring break - they will be quite crowded. I usually try to set up a one-on-one with a student - usually a Hillel member - but I am not going to do so this time. I’m just going to try to keep it very mellow and see what happens. But I like your approach - it’s just like role playing before an interview - some people need the extra practice and preparation.</p>
<p>RVM, perhaps you hopes were high that Elon would strike your son as such a great fit that it could shorten the process and anything less than a rave would have been disappointing? I may have missed a post, but what did your son think of the students and the atmosphere? It is not surprising that he tuned out the Jewish life presentation–I recall Rodney saying that at the Elon Accepted Day, virtually no boys attended the Hillel function, notwithstanding what I bet was a belief by many of their parents that an active Hillel was part of why Elon was great for their boys.</p>
<p>I hope and believe your son will reach an excellent decision for him and that he will become more outgoing over time. I think you are right in thinking that those chances will improve if he is at a place where he will not fall between the cracks in large classes and where leadership positions in activities do not have dozens of kids vying for them.</p>
<p>I empathize with the dilemma of wanting to cover more than 1 school in a trip to minimize the driving days and the child who tunes out on the multischool trip.</p>
<p>Boys also tend to be less expressive about their reactions. Parents of girls, like Holliesue, more often receive vivid feedback, good or bad. I am sure that Holliesue’s daughter will have a great experience at Juniata.</p>
<p>RVM: I think that some kids get overwhelmed when they visit a college and just want to sit back and take it in. Don’t forget that the kids that they meet are several years older. It can be intimidating to talk to a stanger in these situations. I suspect that your son will be fine meeting his peers once he is in college. I think that it’s worth setting up a meeting with someone he already knows at a school, but I would avoid having him meet random students.</p>
<p>RVM, Will you be at C of C on Tuesday? Hillel is serving 3 meals a day for Passover and we were invited on Thursday and Friday to eat our meals there. Thursday, we want to take advantage of being in Charleston, but on Friday we will go there for lunch and Kabbalat Shabbat. The idea is that during lunch the AEpi guys (frat across the street) come and eat, and in an informal way S can chat with the boys.</p>
<p>goodmorning RVM:</p>
<p>Please forgive me if this has been talked about already (I think most of our subjects have been talked about more than once!)</p>
<p>HE mentioned Virginia Tech. Did he hear about it from other friends, teachers, gc’s? Has he read up about what makes it interesting to him?</p>
<p>Could it be the size of the school, the course offerings, the sports atmosphere he seems more attracted to than another school? Maybe the closeness to home? Maybe other reasons he may not have talked about yet?</p>
<p>My suggestion when you go to visit VT would be to let him take the lead. Go explore where he wants to explore and see what questions he would ask. Ask him to show you a list of prs and cons for starters. It could indicate things you may not have thought of before.</p>
<p>Try to set up a visit ahead of time with a prof. in his interested major. They LOVE to talk! We did this twice and were surprised how warm and candid they were!</p>
<p>A bit larger of a school will have enough kids with his interests that they don’t feel like outsiders if they choose one activity over another, for instance.</p>
<p>Good luck with your trips, hope they work out ok.</p>
<p>Boy, you guys are tough. Even my most Type A, outgoing, “out there” kid would NEVER have felt comfortable doing a one-on-one with a professor junior year.</p>
<p>I think your expectations both of your kids and of these junior year visits are way too high.</p>
<p>IMHO-- rule out schools where your kid has a toxic reaction. “I hate this place”- trust me, it never gets better. Rule out schools where your kid discovers there is nothing to do on campus or that the town/city/surrounding area offers nothing interesting or fun as an alternative. Rule out schools where the glossy description online of potential areas of interest turn out to be Potemkin villages (the school intends to start a major in International Relations or Near Eastern History but of the 6 professors, one is going on Sabbatical next year, one is emeritus, one is about to go on maternity leave, and two are adjuncts. Leaving one full time, dedicated faculty person right now, so even though your kid won’t be starting until Fall 2012, my guess is that the major will be slow to get off the ground). And rule out schools where your kid decides it’s too hard to “find themselves” if the credits don’t transfer among majors or departments if your kid is loathe to decide upfront what he or she is interested in.</p>
<p>I just don’t think you can expect a high school junior to ask lots of questions, have anything penetrating to share besides “food is good, girls are cute” or “food is terrible, the boys are terrible”. Etc. If you are shlepping your kids on these visits expecting them to come away with an epiphany of sorts I think you are wasting your time. And if you, the parent, are asking questions in a small group- for sure your kid won’t open his or her mouth.</p>
<p>I suggest using the visits as discussion starters- rural vs. urban, big vs. small, liberal/activist student body vs. pre-professional. And of course if you get to a Hillel that’s boarded up or hasn’t seen a student in 3 years that’s also very telling.</p>
<p>But I think to expect a HS kid to engage with the “student ambassador” types that admissions offices hire to represent the school is very ambitious. Especially a shy kid.</p>
<p>I think Blossom raises many fine points, especially about not thinking you can convert a kid’s negative reaction (often an effort by them to feel more in control of a frightening process) expecting too much from kids on visits. I think many are nervous and busy trying to get a sense of vibe and fit. And perfroming in front of a parent is not high on their list of fun things.</p>
<p>I have a somewhat different take than Blossom on the hope for an “epiphany”–many kids, for reasons their parents cannot fathom (or can fathom, but deplore–a winning team; a cute tour guide), get a sense of fit at certain places and peg it as their first choice. </p>
<p>This is often a brutal process for parents and kids, especially for parents who do tons of research but have kids who do no research beyond visits to those schools their friends think are cool; they have seen on ESPN; or which offer an escape from harsh winters (regardless of Winter break allowing them to escape most of it). And so few kids care about the difference in cost between their instate public and the out of state public.</p>
<p>I am quite comforted to read the comments about Junior boys and the college search. My S really has no interest in visiting schools at this point. He has already been to a few campuses, but was not all that tuned in. Spring break is approaching next week and I have suggested that we take off for a couple of days to tour a couple of campuses. As I said, he has no real interest. Think he would just rather be home hanging out with his friends then spending hours in the car with his mom and thinking about his future. This is very frustrating to me, because I can’t see how he will be able to make an informed choice about which schools to apply to. He is relying on me to guide him, but I don’t want to make the decisions.</p>
<p>On the bright side, he is willingly and diligently working with an SAT tutor and his grades have gone up significantly this year. From that perspective, he has college on the brain.</p>
<p>Yaya- I agree with your description of epiphany 100%- which is exactly what I think most parents are trying to avoid. I meant, don’t expect your kid to walk through the steps of the library, see an exhibit of 18th century manuscripts on display, and say, “Oh, I was meant to study American History and I love this place”, or to walk through an engineering lab and think, “yes, robotics, that’s me and I never knew it”.</p>
<p>For sure your kid will fall in love with the fat free yogurt machine (try telling the kid that ALL colleges serve fat free yogurt) or the navy/maroon school colors (more flattering than orange and yellow) or decide that living in a 6 person suite is the most exciting thing about College A. But if you are expecting an epiphany of a higher order (“This symposium on Russian literature is exactly why I want to go to college”) or something that helps you really focus on the upcoming essay “Why College A” ( “the ability to combine my interests in material science and the development of new prosthetic devices in your bioengineering major”) then you are going to be very disappointed in your visits.</p>
<p>My frizzy haired niece was pre-occupied with the humidity; my own kids seemed disproportionately interested in the laundry facilities (need quarters- bad. Can stick in your meal/bursar/prepaid card- good); my next door neighbor wanted dorms with elevators. These visits are very hit or miss until senior year…</p>
<p>Thank you all very much for the good advice - different approaches - but good tips all the same. I think I am struggling with my obsession - and yes I will call it an obsession - to have S2’s college process go better than S1’s did. I constantly remind myself that everything worked out for S1 in the end - but I feel my anxiety level rising already.</p>
<p>Blossom - I like your very common sense, low-expectation standpoint. Rather than trying to find schools he loves - we will just work on eliminating schools he hates! I guess that would provide useful info. I loved your examples of the reasons kids pick or eliminate colleges.</p>
<p>I am going to work very hard at being quiet next week. I will keep my comments and questions to a minimum and just let him absorb the experience. Although it pains me greatly - I am not going to contact Hillel to meet with a student. S2 has told me several times that I don’t need to do that and while I don’t get why not - I am going to listen.</p>
<p>During our college visits, I made an absolute rule to never say or ask anything during a college tour or information session, except to compliment and thank the presenter at the end! My oldest daughter said it best when she pointed out that adolescents want so much to be independent, that to even acknowledge our existence means to admit that they did not arise out of spontaneous generation - and they do not want to admit that right now; hence their embarrassment, and subsequent silence, at anything that we say or do. . Don’t worry - they outgrow this!</p>
<p>Oh- and I did not stand or walk with my students during college tours either. I hung in the back - and let them go in the front near the guide. Ironically, if a student was visiting alone, she (invariably a she) hooked onto me - I work with adolescents a lot and I like them - so I guess I must have been emitting a vibe, but I wanted to respect the need of my own kids to appear as independent as possible.</p>
<p>[First</a> Hillel hoops tourney tipping off at Maryland | JTA - Jewish & Israel News](<a href=“http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/04/06/3086753/first-hillel-hoops-tourney-tipping-off-at-maryland]First”>http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/04/06/3086753/first-hillel-hoops-tourney-tipping-off-at-maryland)</p>
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<p>I think Rockville and Blossom both provide excellent examples of the need for parents to distinguish between what they hope their children will become and where they are now. </p>
<p>I think colleges trot out their superstars for visitors hoping they will be impressed and assume that will be their child in 4 years. I think it is the wise parent who considers whether their child is ready to compete with such kids for professors’ attention, leadership posts, etc or may be better off being a bigger fish in a smaller pond, even if it means a less prestigious window sticker.</p>
<p>Mom2009, the child who hates the visit process is very common. I had some success, because my son’s best friend was interested in similar schools, having him tour with his friend. Although I took the risk that his friend might influence him too much, it made the driving much less painful for him and both the boys and the dads found the ability to compare impressions helpful.</p>
<p>Obviously, if the friends are saying “Come to State with us, the post-game frat parties are awesome!” and you want your child to focus on places where Psych 101 has 30 kids, not 300, this won’t work.</p>
<p>I completely agree with yabeyabe’s post!</p>
<p>My son decided to be the big fish in the smaller pond and it has worked out very well! This is my son’s freshman year and he has already had leadership opportunities. The trade off is the less prestigious sticker name than our flagship or another private, but we (son, mom and dad) have no regrets. Our son is very happy.</p>
<p>levirm:</p>
<p>“My oldest daughter said it best when she pointed out that adolescents want so much to be independent, that to even acknowledge our existence means to admit that they did not arise out of spontaneous generation - and they do not want to admit that right now; hence their embarrassment, and subsequent silence, at anything that we say or do.” </p>
<p>and yy2:</p>
<p>“Obviously, if the friends are saying ‘Come to State with us, the post-game frat parties are awesome!’ and you want your child to focus on places where Psych 101 has 30 kids, not 300, this won’t work.”</p>
<p>Too funny! Thanks for the boost in endorphin production. :-)</p>
<p>RVM: I think boys your son’s age just get a vibe when they go on the tour and evaluate the campus location. I don’t think they socialize so much.</p>
<p>I would agree. I like to imagine that beneath the silent exterior - there is a layer of sophisticated observation and analysis taking place. One can hope, right?</p>
<p>RVM, I think you can hope with confidence. He sounds like he is thoughtfully getting his head together about he wants and the conflicting inputs from his parents; his VT friends; and his UMCP friends.</p>
<p>I think parents should be more worried if their kids, when the question comes up, immediately say their criteria are quality of football; quality of weather; and quality of social life. I am amused how many parents who would not spend $1000 if their kids wanted a 3D TV to take to school or Spring Break at Club Med because it is a poor choice of priorities will not think twice about spending $160,000 for a college chosen for reasons not even remotely based on the quality of education or the likely increase in grad school or job prospects.</p>