<p>I imagine they can hit anywhere at some point–I think there is a variety called a “microburst” that hit my town in northern NJ for a few minutes 10 years ago–when I called in to take the next day off to clear the fallen branches, the people who had not heard the news thought I was joking.</p>
<p>Elon Day 2 report:</p>
<p>We intentionally stayed over so that we could go to college coffee. Every tues morn, students, staff and faculty get together to have coffee and today muffins (there were macaroons too!) i knew this tradition would impress and connect with sam. of course he saw all the hillel kids there and the biz students he met. imagine in 1 day he had 15+ kids that said hello this morning.</p>
<p>Then we did another walk around, some t-shirt shopping and over to say goodbye to nancy at hilel. hillel is serving lunch an dinner all week. parents donated money to pay for the seder and meals during the week. seems to be great parental involvement. lunch was matzah pizza, egg and tuna salad, green salad, baked potato with broc and cheese. very nice. when we were there about 20 kids had stopped in to eat. texas mom, guess who we saw??? what was nice is to just sit back and watch S sit down and talk and laugh with all of them. you would never know he as a jr.</p>
<p>we hung with 1 of the doherty scholars AND ASKED QUEStions. s and she were strategizing on a class contest.</p>
<p>our final meeting was lunch with or admissions rep. s asked all his final questions our rep is just great. S had been in touch for the past 10 mos. so it was so nice to it and just talk with her. S told her (and everyone he saw today) that he would be applying early decision.</p>
<p>S tried to convince me to go home. He made his choice and it perfect. I decided we still need to see c o c. It is important for s to truly know 100% that he looked at his other fave place and Elon still comes out #1. besides i really want to c city of charleston. going to beach tomorrow. spending time with S–priceless.</p>
<p>will report in again. this keybd. in hotel sticks, very frustrating,but i want to wish all well.</p>
<p>We arrived last night in Oxford. I must say, it is in the middle of nowhere. The town is a couple of blocks long. There are vey few dining establishments, and most were very casual. Only one restaurant that was decent. There is only one hotel in town.
We went for a nice walk before dinner. RHC was correct. This is a beautiful campus. The most beautiful campus I have seen in all my visits with two kids. The campus is a very good size. It did remind me of Delaware, but bigger, and a nicer. The only weak thing, was the student union. A new one is under construction and will be ready in two years. They have a great rec center.
We went to the beginning of the Seder. Attendance was very weak. I would guess 25-30 kids at most. We sat down with a group of girls. They were part of the new aephi sorority. They only have 10 girls in the frosh class. They were very friendly, but did not seem to be all that similar to my d. I would say they were more conservative. We then sat with four guys. She thought two were cute. They seemed to be much more like her friends at home. None of them were in Jewish fears. They told her they were not that good. This also concned my d. We left the Seder before the service, and the beauty of campus was tempered by the not so perfect Jewish world. That night we had dinner with q frosh boy. His sister went to camp with my d. He is from Ohio. He was very nice. While he is half Jewish, he said he had no Jewish friends, and had no perspective on the subject.<br>
My d saw his dorm, and went to q karaoke bar with him.<br>
This am we did the official tour. Once again we were both so impressed with the beauty. We had a meeting at admissions. This one was more casual. The admission rep was a recent grad, and guess what? He was Jewish from Chicago. He told my d he loved Miami, was comfortable with the small Jewish scene, and gave h some optimism. She also has a real shot at getting in here.
She is conflicted. Loved the campus, worried about fitting in. We will see. </p>
<p>In the afternoon we spontaneously drove to cincinnati. Turns out her camp counsellor is a sophomore at UC. We took her to lunch, saw the city, and toured the university. It will not make my d list. Too many kids in too small a space. The architecture is all over the place. Many interesting buildings, but they don’t go together. No grass. The surrounding area was not very safe. We did have a nice afternoon.</p>
<p>Next stop…Kansas…we are off to see the wizard…</p>
<p>Again just saw some typos from phone. Fears should be frat. A few others. Sorry, forgive me.</p>
<p>SoCal dad(also from my phone)I wonder by conservative if you meant the kids were religiously,politically or socially. We found the Friday night service surprisingly “complete” and well done. They seemed an observant and well trained bunch. It was actually a bit more than my day school but lax D likes. However the girls she met later that night at a Jewish frat party were more to her liking and style. There are more hotels besides the one in town nearby. Looks like we will be visiting MU this weekend as Elon is out and the choice for my D has now come down to MU and UDel.</p>
<p>MHC,
Allow me to attempt to clarify my conservative comments. I should try to offer perspective.
We live in a very large progressive city. Our suburb is predominantly upper middle class Jewish Burb. I guess I would say there is a certain Jewish jappiness in our community. Not that I think that is good, or my d is a jap. She recognizes that quality, and tends not to be that way. My d also goes to camp in Maine. She is around many northeast Jews. She is comfortable, and gets them.
We are notnreligious Jews at all. We are Jewish more by values, and culture. Hebrew school ended on bat mitzvah day. BUt my kids live among Jews, thrive along side of Jewish families, and want that asnthey move forward.
When we went to the Seder at Miami, my d made assessments based on appearance and quick judgements. Something that happens in large situations. She felt that these kids were more religious, conservative in appearance(I know she was stereotyping) and not kids she would seek out.
I hate to say all this. It sounds judgmental and a bit shallow on her part. When she was at Delaware, she felt much more connected to the kids she saw there. Hard to explain, but I saw it as well.<br>
I am sure we are guilty of social profiling. I think kids do this when they check out schools. They look at kids and say do I fit in. They make quick judgements based on appearance and have little depth. Her observation was there were more kids like her at Delaware than Miami. ironically, IU has more Jewish kids that fit her stereotype, but she liked it least of all three. Mostly a sixe issue of campus. Wonder how she will respond to Kansas.
Certainly, in terms of , numbers, and feel…Delaware had way more Jewish kids. Miami
Has a slightly bigger and nicer campus. Delaware main street has more to offer. I also like Delaware proximity to many great cities.<br>
Mhc, I understand how your final two schools are ud and Miami. They have similar looks and size. Probably very comparable in academics. I will share my own sence on something. It is not factual, but a sense I got from talking to kids, parents, and a college counsellor I met on a tour. I think that Delaware is on more of an upswing. The perception is that is a fast rising school attracting high achieving kids. Everyckid I talked to was smart, had great college choices, and engaged. At Miami, I picked up that the Ohio economy has taken a toll. I was told that in recent years morenstate funding has been redirected to OSU, Inan attempt to raise it’s status.(it is working I am told). Miami’s has had anlittle tougher time with enrollment last year. I read that in an article in the student paper. I also gotmthe sense that Miami takes in more lower achieving in state kids. Than Delaware. The kid we had dinner with said he had many friends get in with 2.7 gpa’s. I did not see or hear that about Delaware. I think delaware’s has twice as many oos kids as Miami. I think they have less instate must admits. I could be wrong.
I hope my d is lucky and gets in to one ofnthese great schools. I think you should feel proud of your d achievements. I am sure she will make the right choice for her. She can notngo wrong.</p>
<p>One more thing…why is elon out, and could you provide your perspective about that school. Would be interested to learn as our kids seem to be circling the same schools. I know little of elon as not on our LA RADAR. Just what I read here. I hear it has similar looks to MU, and del. Views.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>LOL, Socaldad, don’t worry about the stereotyping. I think our daughters felt pretty much the same. We come from the East Coast version of the same upper middle class type suburb as you do. In fact her private school is comprised of many students who are even far above that and our level, and though we are not in that stratosphere, she swims comfortably in it every day. It’s her norm.</p>
<p>The kids we saw at the MU Hillel seemed more like Conservative, USY religious and observant kids. Even though all my children have gone to Solomon Schechter schools and can daven easily with them…they don’t. And won’t. Their feeling is they’ve had enough of daily minyan, layning, Rabbinics and Bible. </p>
<p>Even in her school now, there are and my D hangs out with kids who are or who appear “hipper” than those we saw at Hillel on Friday night. And who dress differently. It’s just a result of where we both live.</p>
<p>But, my D also wants to get away from that “Jappiness” or she might have gone to IU or Syracuse or Maryland. That’s in fact one of the attractions of Miami for her: that there are more earnest, down to earth Jewish kids there and that there also appeared to her to be enough of the other kinds of kids (or the Midwest version) at the frat party sh went to, to be a good mix.</p>
<p>I think where we differ is that at UDel Decision day, where there were a lot more of the kids who will attend, we got a bit of a different view of UDel students overall than you may have on a visit where there may have been less kids. And while UDel may have a lot more “out of state” kids than Ohio, those OOS kids at UDel are from NY, NJ, PA, MD, which seem a lot less “OOS” to my D. They are the same types of mostly NE Corridor kids she has been going to camp with for many years. Most might as well be instate. To her, the Ohio, Indiana, Michigan kids are the more exotic out of state. </p>
<p>For my D, UDel would be very very comfortable in every respect; Ohio would be more of a stretch in many ways, and I think she may be looking for that. Deciding on whether to give it a try is the reason for the final visit.</p>
<p>I didn’t on our last visit pick up on the funding issues or possibly lower GPA issues (though I have seen some echoes of those perhaps over at the Miami forum) but I will look into them when we go</p>
<p>Elon is a very different school than UDel or MU. I’ve voiced some of my qualms about Elon here before and am a bit reluctant to do so again. I know a lot of people here love the school. I myself like a lot about it and so did my D. What it comes down to for her (and me and her college consultant Aunt who came up for Passover) is that while we believe they fully mean and are committed to everything they say, and have some great ideas, we just don’t believe that ~ right now ~ they can fully deliver across the board. </p>
<p>A lot of our feelings may be coalesced anecdotal stuff, her Aunt and perception as much as research, so I certainly wouldn’t want to try to convince or argue with anyone who feels differently, but you can PM me if you like. </p>
<p>BTW, if a kid is into Communications, I think Elon can deliver an education and hands on experiential learning right now.</p>
<p>Further to this conversation, I just saw that Rabbi Rachel Gartner who was the Rabbi and Hillel Director we met on our visit to MU Ohio is leaving and going to Georgetown. Was her departure or replacement mentioned when you were there, Socaldad?</p>
<p>[New</a> Jewish Chaplaincy Director Starts in August - Georgetown University](<a href=“http://www.georgetown.edu/story/1242669558509.html]New”>http://www.georgetown.edu/story/1242669558509.html)</p>
<p>Mhc I know I have been gushing about Elon, but feel free to offer ur thoughts; u won’t offend. It’s all about fit and how ur d felt. For my S and hiz experience with the AEpi boys and the biz school the fit was perfect. </p>
<p>Socal the big diff between the schools that u r visiting is that Elon has just 5000 students, classes are capped at 33, all taught by profs that lunch, tutor and text students, and stresses internshipsn research and study abroad. It is a gorgeous self enclosed campus. Not a real college town. There are stores and a mall within 10 mins. Freshmen can have a car though. I really think the big difference is size, engaged learning philosophy, and less diversity than the schools u r looking at.</p>
<p>socaldad: with a school of over 1000 Jewish students (apparently), I am very surprised about the few Jewish students who attended the seder at MU…? am I mistaken?..why did only 25-30 kids show up for Passover? that would concern me…</p>
<p>MU is known for being a “bastion of conservatism” in Ohio…can’t get around that…and, yes, a number of the kids we know that are attending are more like “C” students…</p>
<p>and to echo MHC’s view about Elon: if one does not “buy in” to what they are trying to achieve there (and hasn’t read the book about what has already been done) then it’s going to be a hard sell for students who have attended Jewish Day Schools for a lifetime and have grown up in areas where the Jewish population borders on 50-60%…UDel is a better place where one would feel much more comfortable…</p>
<p>FWIW, I know at least two local NJ students who will be attending Tulane instead of Elon because their parents want their kids in a larger Jewish population (and because they made NO contact with anyone at Hillel at Elon or Tulane)…just going by the numbers…</p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks…</p>
<p>samtalya: you may want to post those Seder numbers for people to get perspective…amazing!!</p>
<p>There were nr 200 students at the seder. About 20 students took a role in leading. Posters all over campus and on line. Had maccaroons at college coffee next morn. 2nd night UNC chapel hosted kids from around state and lots of kids from Elon going together. </p>
<p>I agree that the number of jewish students is important, (S went to schechter and we live 50% jewish area) BUT it’s about quality of group and programming, not just about the numbers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are places like this??? ;)</p>
<p>here’s a random example of a NJ town with 46%…</p>
<p>[Livingston</a>, New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livingston,_New_Jersey]Livingston”>Livingston, New Jersey - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>I was actually thinking more of towns in New York, but figured I’d look this one up…</p>
<p>anyone care to chime in with another one?? I have some ideas…</p>
<p>Rodney, I did actually read “Transforming a College” and know how far they have come in really less than 10 years, I also scoured college faculty message boards of academics who had applied to teach or considered teaching there and spoke to several college counsellors. D and I know what they are trying to do there and applaud it. That and the community service emphasis were specifically the reasons she liked Elon. She very much “bought into” what they are trying to achieve there. So the reasons for her finally ruling it out have NOTHING to do with her going to day school or living in a Jewish melieu. She doesn’t really want more than a comforting background amount of that.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to say, what we didn’t “buy into” was the belief that Elon is yet up to delivering in a meaningful way on many of their aspirations and claims (except in the area of Communications). </p>
<p>I know how popular Elon is in some Northern circles lately, despite this years drop in applications. Yes, i do think they will get there. Yes I think it will be a fun place for students to attend and will be happy there in the beautiful warm campus. Yes they will someday be proud to have gone and helped it get to that level. Yes, some Fellows in some subject areas will get what they hoped for.</p>
<p>And lol, I think you may be overlooking some other reasons both students and parents might prefer New Orleans and Tulane to Elon and Burlington. My niece who went to public school and lives a few towns over from us in a non Jewish town, just turned down Vanderbilt to go to Tulane.</p>
<p>“My niece who went to public school and lives a few towns over from us in a non Jewish town, just turned down Vanderbilt to go to Tulane.”</p>
<p>thank you for reminding me what I left out; the kids I know that chose Tulane are full-pay students, not ones that were lured by merit money…</p>
<p>actually, the parents involved told me their reasons…and mentioned the # of Jewish kids as the main one…</p>
<p>Since I am helping ALOT of juniors formulate their lists now, could you share which areas you perceived Elon has a long way to go? is this about arts and science/pre-med type discussion? …(my daugher is communications interest, so no idea)</p>
<p>we never explored that area, so it would be really helpful to me to know some weaknesses…I actually started a thread last year on the Elon forum to assess some weaknesses and only got positive comments so some negatives would be helpful for others going forward!!</p>
<p>i actually think your insight could help others who are still making decisions (collage1’s D for one)</p>
<p>I think that one needs to really “know” their child, and access fit for their child. Tulane might be a preferred school for some families. It might also be a horrible selection for a high school B/B+ student who gets in and struggles to stay in. I know someone who struggled there and I think that it was life altering. His mother told me that it was just hard for him to shine there (and that was putting it gently). There were plenty of anxiety filled phone calls and nail biting moments. It did effect graduate school options. A big part of the reason this school was chosen was name recognition, Jewish student population, modest merit award, and location. Frankly, it seemed less so at the time the decision was made, but Tulane was more of high match/low reach for this student. One really needs to know their own child.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like Elon is possibly trying to emulate Muhlenberg…which has done a lot in the past 5-10 years to attract Jewish students as well as become a very desirable place for Northeastern B+/A- kids.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can’t find the data to back me up but these towns also qualify (some are more hamlets of Orthodoxy or Hasidim rather than general towns with a spectrum of Jewish practices reflected, but still):</p>
<p>-Great Neck, NY
-Lawrence, NY
-Woodmere, NY
-Hewlett, NY
-Monsey, NY
-Cedarhurst, NY
-Lakewood, NJ
-Kiryas Joel, NY</p>
<p>Brookline, MA is roughly 35-40% Jewish (so not there, but almost), and growing as the Ortho community grows, especially with lots of little kids. I don’t know the percentages but Teaneck (NJ), parts of suburban Baltimore, Mamaroneck (NY), Sharon (MA), all have very visible Jewish communities (I wouldn’t be surprised if any of them are 40+%). Newton, MA; Hartford, CT; Cleveland, OH all have strong communities too.</p>
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