Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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<p>Actually my niece would have been full pay at either Vandy or Tulane, but the $25k Tulane offered her was a big draw. She had applied ED to Vanderbilt, withdrew her ED app after visiting both Vandy and Tulane. Vanderbilt then accepted her RD but she will be going to Tulane any way. </p>

<p>I didn’t say Elon has a “long” way to go, just that due to size, location, young alumni base for jobs and funding, it may not yet be able to deliver what it stresses to as many as it may someday. My D is a B student and so I am looking at what she will get at and get out of every school she considers. At both our visits to Elon they presented and touted the opportunities offered to really outstanding or highly motivated students, far more than Delaware which presented the engaged learning and internships available to a greater number of regular students. When pressed at Elon as to the types of internships and volunteer activities available (again in non communication areas) they were for the most part local Elon or Burlington small town opportunities. .</p>

<p>At Delaware and Miami we heard of work at larger companies and larger scale activities. I don’t know much about what they do in the Love School, didn’t someone recently post about a WSJ article that cautioned against business schools below Business Week’s top 50. MU’s Farmer School is #22, Elon 60.</p>

<p>One place where Elon definitely excelled was in Winter Session programs. Delaware also on a 4-1-4 academic calendar had regular courses, not the cool ones at Elon and at Elon staying on campus is free whereas at Del it’s $$5k. I don’t know about Winter study abroad, Elon may be cheaper if you don’t have to pay for credits, but a few students at Del said they had gotten financial aid for the Winter session abroad</p>

<p>One certainly expects given its size and credo that Elon would be ranked highly by US News on its regional South focus on undergrads. But MU is ranked #2 Nationally by US News. Both Delaware and Miami have more than twice the number of majors as Elon.</p>

<p>Community service at both Delaware and MU are surprisingly vital and stressed (er, that is …emphasized).</p>

<p>I’ll give you more later.</p>

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<p>nemom: great post and very accurate; these kids I know going are b/b+ students…</p>

<p>2boysima: I can’t imagine Elon ever becoming like Muhlenberg if for nothing else than location; Muhlenberg is an astonishing 35% Jewish in a school of 2500 kids very close to NY/NJ…if Elon gets to 15%, I would be shocked; there are still too many people hung up on rankings/names etc around here (NY/NJ) in the Jewish population for it to surpass even that…and then there are alot of parents who do not want their kids travelling by airplane…a whole different issue…</p>

<p>it is interesting to note that the slowly rising Elon Jewish population is very geographically diverse (which REALLY attracted my daughter to it)…not concentrated in the NY/NJ area…</p>

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<p>mhc: thank you…yes, please, whenever you have time…</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, because we attended orientation, rather than Phoenix days, we met ALOT of normal/regular kids on our panels who had done amazing things…they didn’t just parade the Fellows kids around, but then again, they weren’t trying to “convince” us…just display the opportunities…I can understand why they would want to portray a different sense on an accepted student day event…</p>

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<p>Just a quick stop in to say hello from our hotel at University of Delaware. DS and I visiting DD between college visits. It is summer here! The two of them got out on the tennis court for about 45 minutes – just what I do at home: watch my kids play tennis! Glad to see all the positive comments about UD - I’m the big cheerleader here!</p>

<p>DS and I toured Princeton this morning (not a B student). Boy, were they unprepared for the spring break visitors! First, our info session ran late so we missed the engineering tour. Then, they didn’t have enough tour guides so our group must have had over 100 people. Last time I felt like cattle was at a Pres Day tour with DD at UMass. Anyway, Princeton is quite impressive - although DS still likes Lehigh and Miami (FL). As RockvilleMom has said, this first time through – early visits – we are seeing what appeals to him. Some of these schools are close enough to home that we can do revisits when the time comes. He is getting into it and definitely wants to see Tulane too. Tomorrow, we are off to Johns Hopkins. They didn’t take reservations there either for the tour - I hope there aren’t the masses that we had today.</p>

<p>Will let you know how we do tomorrow!</p>

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<p>Interesting about the elon visit, Rodney. There’s a thread over in the Del forum of a mom whose kid had a negative weekday visit there while our Decision day visit was boffo.</p>

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<p>We are home - survived the rest of the trip. Virginia Tech was good - better than I expected. First - the campus. The football stadium is huge and very prominently located - somewhat symbolic, I think. The campus is large - but well laid-out. Unlike JMU, where bldgs are everywhere with no rhyme or reason, VT has all of the academic bldgs in one area and all of the dorms/dining halls in another. Very sensible. It is an attractive campus - very consistent architecturally. It won’t rival Elon or Wake Forest - but still very nice.</p>

<p>We did the info session/tour/business session. I would have been happy to do more - but have learned with S2 that less is better. The info session was in a huge auditorium - looked like it had been done in the 1950’s and not renovated since - not impressive. Presentation was fine - no film or video - which I do prefer as a good opener. Tour was fine - we mostly saw the outsides of bldgs - but it gave us an overall sense of the campus. One comment I have to make is the buses - tons of them constantly going up and down the main street and around the drillfield. Ok - it’s a good they have transportation around the campus and to the off campus apartments - but the constant noise and bus fumes was annoying.</p>

<p>The Pamplin Business school and presentation was the best part of the day. Gorgeous new bldg. The panel seemed very down-to-earth - they were wearing VT t-shirts and shorts, rather than suits. They stressed that the advising is excellent and they help the kids to plan well so that it is very possible to double major or double minor - many courses can fulfill more than one requirement. They offer the option to apply as “business - undecided” - which appeals to S2. Very good info on internships and job placement for Pamplin grads - this is where you can really see the benefits of a large university with a strong alumni base.</p>

<p>So - overall - a good trip. I believe CofC and VT are both staying on the list.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to add - Samtalya - glad your son loved Elon. His outgoing nature sounds like he fits right in.</p>

<p>mhc - very eager to hear the final result between Miami and Delaware.</p>

<p>socaldad - glad your visits are progressing well - I think you have more stamina than I do.</p>

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<p>So - 9 months, 5 states and 10 colleges later - here’s some “final” thoughts:</p>

<p>James Madison - he liked the fun vibe and the possibility to combine sports mgmt, business and psychology. Weird campus layout does not phase him. Modest Jewish life. I don’t care for the lack of on campus housing. We may visit again in the fall to look into majors more deeply.</p>

<p>Susquehanna - gorgeous campus, very friendly and intimate. Modest Jewish life - but growing. Possibility to combine business and psych. Ample housing. Interesting study abroad options and emphasis on community service. Too small? Too rural?</p>

<p>Towson - in-state safety. It meets many of his needs - but he’d rather venture further from home. We may visit more in-depth in the fall.</p>

<p>Elon, CofC and VT - I don’t want to be repetitive. I will say that while DH and I love many things about Elon - I’m not 100% sure about the fit for our quiet son. He needs time to warm up at his own pace and Elon seems to attract a lot of kids who are very outgoing - which is great - but it makes it harder for a quieter kid to shine. Maybe - I’m not sure.</p>

<p>American and Gettysburg - eliminated. Certainly both have some great features - but the student body at American did not seem to be what he was looking for and Gettysburg seemed too small/rural/Greek.</p>

<p>Still considering - Delaware, Muhlenburg and Richmond. If he wants to visit in the fall we will do so - but I have a feeling he may cap it at 6 and say he has enough.</p>

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<p>My daughter is applying to liberal arts colleges in the South and found a hidden treasure in St Petersburg, Florida. Eckerd College is one of the “Colleges that Change Lives.” They just appointed a campus rabbi who works for Hillel in the region and Jewish life is growing quickly on campus. The academics are excellent (Eckerd is one of the the youngest college with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter), and the campus is beautiful with a mile and a half of waterfront property. They boast about accepting “B” students and turning them into “A” students. The biggest surprise is that for the past 20 years, Elie Wiesel has been teaching during their January Winter Session. The thought that my daughter might be able to study with Elie Wiesel every day for a month in a class of 20 students is something that I never imagined possible for her until we learned about Eckerd. Every student at the school is required to read “Night” and Dr Wiesel addresses the Freshman Class every year. Information about Jewish life at Eckerd College can be found at [Hillels</a> of the Florida Suncoast| Eckerd College](<a href=“http://www.eckerdhillel.org%5DHillels”>http://www.eckerdhillel.org)</p>

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<p>Floridad - thanks so much for joining our discussion - welcome! I am aware of Eckerd - have never visited but have reviewed their website and promotional literature. I do think we have had some posts on it - I remember linking info on the Suncoast Hillel. I agree that for “B” students who want to attend a small school in Florida - should absolutely be on the list. If I remember correctly - they offer the option to do a campus tour by boat! Which sounded pretty cool. </p>

<p>Where else is your daughter looking?</p>

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<p>Floridad, welcome! Great information about Eckerd!</p>

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<p>She’s also looking at Oxford and Elon, but Eckerd is her first choice for now.
She attended an Eckerd Open House and they did provide a boat tour. It was cool. Speaking of cool, Eckerd Hillel also has a Jewish Scuba Group that does some interesting Tikkun Olam programs.</p>

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<p>Welcome fla dad. </p>

<p>Rvm great to hear from you and wonderful that VT visit went well. It sounds like u r doing a great job putting all of ur options in place. </p>

<p>Socal waiting for ur update. u must be enjoying all this time with D.</p>

<p>Mhc, after spending 2 days with biz students at elon I can tell u that some had internships in DC, NYC and Philly. Of course there are many options in raleigh-durham and piedmont triad area but by saying most are in burlington and elon is really not so. </p>

<p>Just to note (wish I could post link, but don’t have it on phone) a Doherty Scholar won the MIT elevator pitch last month against grad students, venture caps and scholars. </p>

<p>I agree that Elon is still evolving,but how exciting to be a part of it. I truly believe that 5 years from now my son wouldn’t get accepted and that his degree will be worth that much more. </p>

<p>I think it is really hard to make comparisons between large public schools and smaller liberal arts private.</p>

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<p>hello
We are not Jewish. I hope it is OK to ask a question. We live in the deep South and there are not a whole lot of Jewish people around. We live in a rural area in Mississippi about a 5 hour drive north of New Orleans. My next door neighbors are Jewish and we really enjoy them . They are ten years older than we are but we still get together fairly often. We watched their kids grow up and are very close to them. In turn, our son is very good friends with them as well. I have three other close friends who are Jewish and my best friend is half Jewish. While growing up I do not remember many differences in our lives except where we all went to a different church and the Christmas Holiday time was handled differently. Not in a bad way…just different
My point is that there are no differences in the way we treat each other or any of the other Jews or non-Jews. It has just never been an issue. Now to my question.
My son is going to Tulane and cannot wait to get there. I know that Tulane is around 25% Jewish coming mainly from the Northeast. I have never given this a second thought until I saw these long threads for Jewish parents and students.
Do you think that the Jewish students will mind spending time with and getting to know my son. I may be naive, but I always just assumed that Jews and non-Jews would mix like we always have. Do the Jewish students feel comfortable only in their own clicks or will they befriend my child or allow my child to befriend them. How have the Jewish students been treated up north. Are they coming from a culture that has fostered friendship and trust through the years or something less desirable. thanks</p>

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<p>Hi there, laughwithme. I’m from the West Coast so I’m not really going to be able to be of much help to you, but there are a couple of things I wanted to briefly mention. The schools I’ve attended in my lifetime had <em>very few</em> Jewish students, and I would have been pretty darn lonely if I’d only wanted to hang out with Jews. Even so, I’m most accustomed to the expression Winter Break rather than Christmas Holiday, and I also wouldn’t put synagogue in the category of church, lol. A difference from where you live, it sounds like. Your son may meet more people who think a little like me. Could be excellent exposure for him :-)</p>

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<p>thanks for answering…i know it will be good for him…I am really interested in hearing what others have to say as well.</p>

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<p>laughwithme, yes, absolutely, Jewish kids will mix with all the other kids and by and large most kids won’t even know that many of the Jewish kids are Jewish unless they mention it. The purpose of this thread, I think, is to help people learn how much of an organized Jewish community there is at campuses people are considering, so that there kids will have activities to participate in and a community to be a part of when they want (more like an extracurricular club, than just trying to live separate lives).</p>

<p>This thread is also in recognition that Jewish people are a minority in this country, and people want to ensure that their students go to a school where some level of diversity is welcomed and accepted.</p>

<p>Some Jewish students really want to have an organization on campus that they can be a part of, and others will have little or no interest in it. I’m sure it’s the same for students of other religions, as well.</p>

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<p>laughwithme – much of Jewish religious observance entails community – there are prayers that cannot even be said unless a certain number are present - called a “minyan” which is 10 Jews (i won’t go into detail as to what other qualifications are required to be “counted” towards that 10 since it will vary by denomination). even in situations in which a given number is not “required,” many traditions involve communal celebrations – shabbat dinner on friday nights, seders for passover, etc. not all Jews observe their religion in the same way – Jewish students will span a spectrum from those who are very observant to those for whom Judaism is just a family label. so if the kinds of observances i’ve mentioned are important to a student, they would want a school where there are enough other Jewish students that within the pool of Jewish students there will in turn be enough Jewish students interested in sharing such communal activities. </p>

<p>even for those who are not as interested in religious observances, some Jewish students may want to know that they will be in an atmosphere where others will simply understand that their family traditions come from a different religious background than the majority.</p>

<p>but most of these Jewish students will also seek friendships among the general population at a college without regard to religious identity. just as you foresee your child happily being friends with Jews without compromising his/her own religous identity, Jewish students will happily befriend your child. </p>

<p>college is often a time when students face things outside their previous comfort zone – some handle it better than others. i went to a state college where the overwhelming majority of students were from the same state and there was a bit of a culture clash between upstaters and downstaters – there will always be new backgrounds that students will be exposed to. i think most of us hope that our students will learn from the experience and broaden their horizons. i always thought that rather than insulating my children, having a Jewish community at college would in fact make it easier for them to expand their horizons by making them feel they aren’t alone in sharing their background with others.</p>

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<p>When you make generalizations about a group you are always going to get yourself into trouble. Sure there are Jews who prefer to socialize mostly with Jews, others who prefer a mix of friends from different backgrounds, and others who prefer non-Jews.</p>

<p>Where I live in suburban Philadelphia, I have experienced that many Jewish people know each other through synagogue and therefore have many connections in common. There is a natural tendency to socialize with this circle of friends. </p>

<p>I am not a regular churchgoer. Around where I live the churches are small and numerous whereas the synagogues are large and there are fewer of them. So belonging to a church does not usually involve a lot of social connections the way that belonging to a synagogue does. </p>

<p>Also most of the Jews have their children attend Hebrew school at the synagogue from a young age through at least their bar/bat mitzvah and so they get to know the parents of the kids in Hebrew school class. Kind of like being a girl scout mom, or soccer mom, except that in this case the connections are always with those of a like religion.</p>

<p>Some people might assume that there is clicquish-ness when it may really be just the fact that Jews have many social connections through these associations with synagogue.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I don’t hesitate to invite my Jewish friends to join me for a celebration of Easter, Christmas, etc. but I am almost never invited to their Passover or Rosh Hashanah celebrations. I do sometimes feel I am excluded from certain events because I am Christian.</p>

<p>Among Jews there also seems to be a strong preference for marrying within the faith. The social structure that revolves around synagogue and Jewish traditions encourages their children to meet and marry other Jews so that they can carry on their faith, heritage, etc for the next generation.</p>

<p>I hope that none of the Jewish posters on this forum is offended by these observations, I’m just trying to give a perspective from the non-Jew who lives in a heavily Jewish area.</p>

<p>i would also like to state for full disclosure that I am a product of a mixed marriage and half of my family is Jewish.</p>

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<p>^^such an interesting observation…and so different from what I have experienced here in Northern NJ so I will chime in…</p>

<p>1) we belong to a synagogue, but have maybe 3 friends from that congregation…most of our friends live all the way from outside of PA north to Westchester County, NY and encompass all faiths</p>

<p>2) a very large majority of my daughters’ friends are Christian; their boyfriends have been Christian…</p>

<p>3) our Passover seders, since I was a child on Long Island, have included those of all faiths…in fact, we were taught bringing outsiders to the seder celebration was a “mitzvah”…Rosh Hashanah is a completely different story; we spend that in synagogue and with immediate family…it’s not a question of not having an interfaith celebration but rather of a religious holiday (akin to if a christian family had a dinner on Easter)</p>

<p>now, to the original question…For the student attending Tulane…very few Jewish individuals are exclusionary, and especially not college students for the most part…my daughter attends Syracuse University which has a very large Jewish population; she has met Jewish people who look at HER strangely because she does not get overly involved in her religion, but that is from a very small ultra-Orthodox population not found in many schools…</p>

<p>I do not know if Tulane particularly attracts a VERY observant Jewish population, but honestly, it should not be a problem for your son…</p>

<p>From what I have found from my own children, religion is way down on the list of criteria for friendship (heck, i don’t think it’s on the “list” at all)…</p>