<p>Endicott is soooo beautiful. I loved the campus when visiting. Private beaches…
I just didn’t get the feeling there is a “big” Jewish contingent there, though. It would be worth exploring to find out more. I do agree that the kids all were extremely nice.</p>
<p>What is an acceptable graduation rate? I think a lower graduation rate is a red flag.</p>
<p>I think anything over 80% is pretty good, and anything under 60% is pretty low. That leaves a very wide gray area where further investigation is warranted. I think I mentioned College of Charleston a few posts ago - that is a school on my son’s list that I have heard so many good things about, but I am still concerned by the low graduation rate and plan to ask more about it when we visit.</p>
<p>On Google–or maybe CC–you could find an American Enterprise Institute report on graduation rates, ranking the top 10 and bottom 10 in each level of selectivity. At that time, 80% was a top ranking for all but the most selective schools–for them it was a bottom ranking. I was surprised how low many well-regarded flagship publics came in.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: I agree with you about the graduation rate. Our list is getting smaller and smaller-don’t want to send our son to a school with a low graduation rate.</p>
<p>Below is a story about the American Enterprise Institute study and a link to it:</p>
<p>Susquehanna University has the fourth-highest graduation rate among the nation’s ‘very selective’ undergraduate institutions," according to a recent press release from University Communications. </p>
<p>The number of schools in the running peaked at 274, leaving 270 schools behind Susquehanna’s graduation record.</p>
<p>According to the press release, the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), surveyed more than 1,300 of the country’s four-year undergraduate colleges and separated them into six categories ranging from “noncompetitive” to “most competitive.”</p>
<p>These ranges were based on each school’s admissions standards supplied by data from Barron’s “Profiles of American Colleges.” </p>
<p>The results of the survey were then published in a report titled “Diplomas and Dropouts: Which Colleges Actually Graduate Their Students (and Which Don’t),” which was released last June during a conference at the Wohlstetter Conference Center in Washington, D.C.</p>
<p>“We are particularly proud,” said Susquehanna Provost and Dean of Faculty Linda McMillin. </p>
<p>This survey ranked all of its schools on their six-year graduation rates. Susquehanna’s six-year graduation rate was 82 percent, ranking “fourth nationally and third in the northern U.S. region.” </p>
<p>A very small percentage of students at Susquehanna graduate in the sixth year, and the four-year graduation rate was above 80 percent. </p>
<p>“Susquehanna is selective, but we’re not Harvard,” McMillin said. </p>
<p>McMillin explained how hard the staff and faculty work at connecting the students and supporting them with anything that might be necessary to achieve their academic goals. </p>
<p>The report said that schools in the Northeast region of the U.S., like Susquehanna, house “many of the nation’s best institutions, and the distribution of graduation rates in this region reflects the high quality of many of these schools.”</p>
<p>In the press release, McMillin said Susquehanna relies on “proven practices” involving uniquely-intensive course work for first-year students and more specialized coursework such as capstones, as students progress through their educational careers.</p>
<p>She said that the “main thrust” is towards four-year college careers at Susquehanna as opposed to six-year stints. </p>
<p>McMillin said the six-year graduation can be attributed to several factors: struggle in classes, personal or physical problems and a late change of major not allowing enough time per semester for the classes that need to be taken. </p>
<p>Money is also a large factor in the six-year graduation. Most federal aid scholarships are only good for four years or eight semesters McMillin added, and that can also mean lost wages for those extra two years. </p>
<p>The schools ranked above Susquehanna include College of Saint Benedict in Minnesota, with a graduation rate of 82 percent; Pennsylvania State University, Main Campus, located in State College, with a graduation rate of 84 percent; and Stonehill College in Massachussets, with a graduation rate of 85 percent.</p>
<p>AEI’s full report can be viewed online at aei.org/docLib/Dip-lomas%20and%20Dropouts.pdf.</p>
<p>My D’s best friend (not Jewish) is going to Susquehanna in the fall. She had gone to a writing camp there a couple of summers ago and loved it. My sister (a college English professor) said that SU is very well known for its writing program.</p>
<p>So that’s additional positive feedback about the school especially for someone interested in this major.</p>
<p>Thanks for mentioning this report - am busy looking at it now. Besides Susquehanna at 82%, James Madison also scored well at 81%. One interesting point is that the category the college is placed in matters a lot. Tulane, for example, is placed in the bottom 10 of most competitive southern schools with a graduation rate of 76%.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.aei.org/docLib/Diplomas%20and%20Dropouts%20final.pdf[/url]”>http://www.aei.org/docLib/Diplomas%20and%20Dropouts%20final.pdf</a></p>
<p>In general, the moret selective the school category, the higher the average rate. I suspect some of it is that kids who earned better HS stats tend to be more motivated towards grad/professional school and focused on finsihing college in 4 years. The more selective schools likely also have fewer kids who transfer out, because they do not take many transfers and kids do not want to trade down in prestige.</p>
<p>yabeyabe - thanks for finding this - very interesting data. There obviously is a correlation between selectivity and graduation rate, as you mentioned. Just from a few I have on S2’s list, in order of graduation rate:</p>
<p>Eckerd College 58%
C of C 60%
York College 63%
Towson 66%
Salisbury 68%
Elon 73%
Gettysburg 81%
Susquehanna 82%
James Madison 81%
Muhlenberg 83%</p>
<p>So here’s my question - does a fairly low grad. rate - say C of C at 60% - mean this college should be taken off the list? It seems like by definition, a safety school will be in the lower categories of selectivity - not from highly selctive or most selective - so then wouldn’t any safety school have a lower graduation rate?</p>
<p>Rockville Mom and others: I suggest that you inquire about the supports available to help a higher graduation rate. This does not mean a child has to have learning issues. Some classes are just hard (Calculus, Science requirements, etc.). Is there a tutoring center free of charge? Are there study reviews before finals? What happens on the week-ends–is there peer tutoring if needed? I think you get the picture. Please let us know what you think of these schools after your visits.</p>
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<p>I called admissions and inquired. If I did not get an answer that made me feel comfortable I took it off our list. If I felt the reasons made sense and I felt that the reasons did not bother me, it stayed on our list. </p>
<p>One example of a school that came off our list was one where there wasn’t an engineering major on that campus. The explanation for the low grad rate was that this was a public U with many students were attending part time and commuting, and there was no engineering major. We still toured. Well, we were paired with a tour guide who was an engineering major!!! Now red flags went up and I started asking more questions. The guide told me that it is true that the campus did not offer engineering, BUT he was taking engineering classes through interactive technology/classes on another campus. In other words, he watched lectures being held on another school live via some technology, and was able to ask questions and participate in discussions as though he was physically in the classroom! His degree will list both schools. I no longer felt comfortable with “no engineering” as a reason for large numbers of students to transfer out. It came off our list.</p>
<p>I am glad to hear that there are other parents who are also concerned about graduation rates and asking excellent questions to decide to keep the school on/off the list.</p>
<p>I guess I’m still not clear though on how a low graduation rate would affect my son per se. Here’s an example - my cousin just graduated from St Leo University in Florida - a school that is not very selective (he was a poor student in hs). The AEI chart shows St Leo with a 41% 6-year graduation rate - very poor. Yet, my cousin graduated in 4 years, although I have no idea of his GPA and he does not have a job - I’m hearing vague plans to return to St Leo, take grad school classes part-time and work part-time. But my point is that even with a low 6-year grad. rate - he graduated in 4 years. </p>
<p>So, assuming a school has a low grad. rate for comprehendable reasons - kids transfer up, or kids drop out for financial issues - how does that affect my son and his goal to graduate in 4 years? Based on what northeastmom said, it does not have to be a deal breaker if you are ok with the reasons provided by the admissions office? I think I’m being dense on this issue, but I’m concerned that every school I like for other reasons as a potential safety school also has a low grad. rate.</p>
<p>Sorry about all of the typos, mdcissp. I am glad that you were able to decipher my post!</p>
<p>People may disagree over whether a low graduation rate is bad sign, but I am sure a very high rate is a good sign–it must mean kids are happy and not falling through the cracks.</p>
<p>As I recall, Susquehanna’s 4 year rate compares to its peers much better than its freshman retention rate, which I recall being in the high 80’s–I think a small, nonelite school in the middle of nowhere without bigtime sports will lose a chunk of kids quickly who yearn to be at Penn State football games or closer to a city. The fact that there are required course distribution requirements–a course heavy on writing; a course heavy on analysis, etc may also lead some freshman to leave. I view the very high 4 year rate as signalling there is a lot to do on campus, the school keeps kids on track and most kids are generally happy.</p>
<p>It is not as selective as Muhlenberg or Gettysburg, so it is for many kids, a safety school with a high graduation rate.</p>
<p>My sense is that the lower rates among safety schools reflect that some do not get it–the smarter safeties know they are competing against public colleges which have a cost advantage, so they better offer something to compensate, such as making sure paents are not shelling out the extra $ for a 5th or 6th year.</p>
<p>Nothing against C of C or Eckerd, but I would explore why their rates are so much lower than JMU, which offers worse weather and none of the charms of Charlestown. I know Elon is a hot school, but that rate seems very low compared to its selectivity.</p>
<p>I remember being concerned that Goucher and McDaniel–both Colleges That Change Lives–had much lower rates than I expected.</p>
<p>Grad rates influence the administrations attitude towards kids who are struggling. Grad rates impact the responsiveness of the tutoring center, the availability of TA’s and professors for extra help, etc. Grad rates influence the degree to which a financial aid counselor will sit down with your kid if a parent loses his or her job in the middle of a semester. Grad rates are a factor in how involved deans and other administrators are when a kid gets sick in the middle of a semester.</p>
<p>Colleges which expect a kid to graduate in 4 years will move heaven and earth to make that happen. Colleges which expect a kid to graduate in 5-6 years will know what to do when illness or other circumstances trip up the best laid plans. Colleges which are used to having a large percentage of kids drift off without a degree, transfer out by Sophomore year, or just take time out for an indefinite period without a re-entry plan will not go out of their way to help YOUR KID when trouble strikes.</p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
<p>One thing that I think is wonderful is that when you complete the FAFSA, the college graduation rates for schools that you request to receive your SAR are staring listed. One can compare the grad rates for school A vs. B on that list. This means that parents who never thought about looking into graduation rates now have that information in front of them, as long as they completed the fafsa. I hope that this will result in higher grad rates across the board.</p>
<p>blossom - great point. I had never thought of it that way.</p>
<p>Here’s a website I just found that might also be of interest on the grad. rate topic:</p>
<p>[College</a> Results Online](<a href=“http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/default.aspx]College”>http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/default.aspx)</p>
<p>Sponsored by the Education Trust. Gives grad. rates and other info.</p>
<p>Yabeyabe - it’s so interesting - because James Madison has turned off some people with its party rep - but I think the grad. rate offsets that. Very interested to visit in late June. And I agree about Elon - puzzling. Elon has a 90% freshman retention rate - but the 4-year grad rate is only 65.8% and the 6-year grad rate is 72.6 - this is info from 2007. I need to look into that - seems like an odd gap.</p>
<p>One quick comment on College of Charleston - their transfer out rate is 28% - not sure why - but that is very high and pretty much explains the low graduation rate. Another factor is C of C has a higher percentage of part-time students and students over the age of 25 than the other schools on S2’s list. I’m curious to see if I can find the graduation rate for full-time students under 25 - that might be a more valid statistic for my purposes.</p>