<p>My antenna tingle at the use of graduation rate. I suspect that blossom’s analysis is correct but perhaps partial. Could it also be that a high graduation rate signals lower standards? By analogy, U of Chicago kicks out a lot of econ grad students at the end of first or second year while Harvard kicks out none. While Harvard produces many stellar PhD’s (maybe more than Chicago), it produces a significant number of mediocre ones while Chicago has dramatically fewer. If we were judging by graduation rate, we’d say Harvard is better but if were judging median quality of output, we’d say Chicago was better.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that you mention the high transfer rate at College of Charleston. We were originally interested in the school for my daughter, but I have noticed that the few kids from my area in Maryland that have attended transfer out, sometimes even after the first semester. I recently heard about a girl from Connecticut who transfered because it was "too southern’. It looks beautiful and the setting sounds great, but it may not be the best choice for kids from the mid-atlantic and northeast.</p>
<p>momjr - can you elaborate? Why else did students from Maryland transfer out of C of C - especially after only one semester - how alarming. I look at it and I think - Charleston is great, plenty of Jewish kids, affordable, has wide variety of majors including business, not too big or too small - and I’m thinking it is a great possibility. Than I read your post and I am troubled. I don’t know at this point when we will have a chance to visit - maybe next spring. If you have any more info on what kids did not like about C of C, I would be very interested.</p>
<p>I looked at the Elon CDS - more reassuring data. Over the past 3 years - their 4-year grad. rate has gone from 71.4% to 74.1% to 77.5%. The latest figure - 77.5% is for students who entered as freshman in the fall of 2005. Their 5-year graduation rate has increased as well - from 77.3% to 80.3%. The latest figure - 80.3% - is for students who entered as freshman in the fall of 2004. Their latest 6-year grad. rate is 78.2% - from students who were freshman in the fall of 2003. I feel better about Elon after looking closely at these numbers - particularly since the trend is steadily moving upwards.</p>
<p>^^rm: haven’t been around all day to read all of this; but I imagine that the latest figure would be even higher…just finished reading the George Keller book you recommended; it looks like 2003 was the “year of the turnaround” and based on your numbers has proven true…</p>
<p>I am still on the fence re: C of C…I will inquire around about some of the things that have been mentioned on this thread today…</p>
<p>yabeyabe: don’t know why, but my daughter’s college counselor nixed Susquehanna for her upon my inquiry; again, I will get more info…it may, just may, have to do with the small Jewish population but as I said, I will get more info…I may have her apply anyway since I think that it looks like a great safety for her…100% admitted from her school over the last 5 years.</p>
<p>incidently, Eckerd was mentioned in the NYtimes article talking about pets on campus and being allowed in dorms…a snake was mentioned??? ew…</p>
<p>I think graduation rate is very important. I think a higher graduation rate signals happier students with more academic supports for difficult classes, more fun activities on the week-ends, and a more caring administration. I simply don’t want to take a chance on a lower graduation rate because there is so much at stake and my son said he wants one 4 year school, no transferring. </p>
<p>Also, I think it is important to see if a school with a lower graduation rate has enough transfer of major options within the school that means you don’t have to transfer out.</p>
<p>I do not equate higher graduation rates with lower standards. Even the most rigorous colleges–Swarthmore, MIT, Caltech and Chicago–have graduation rates well above many or all of the schools listed by Rockville.</p>
<p>With GC judgments, good or bad, on schools, I found it important to ask the basis. If it is based on discussions with 10 kids who have there, that obviously is mor eimpressive than someone relying on i studnet, or just something they have heard. Unfortunately, I find that very high schools use simple webtools such as Facebook pages or email surveys to gather a decent amount of data. And most GCs do not do much web or book research either. At many schools, they just push kids towards reaches, because it makes the school look good.</p>
<p>One thing that might be interesting to look at is how many OOS kids leave a public school to return to a home state school. I suggest this because parents are paying a premium for an OOS school, when, in all likelihood, they could get a similar education at a IS school. CofC offers a wonderful location, a terrific place for parents to visit. While it is less expensive than the sticker price for a private LAC and it gives kids an opportunity to go out of state for school, is it really any better, for most students, than your state’s university/college? I think many students, after a year or two, may return home. </p>
<p>For those in state, it is a terrific bargain. With the Life Scholarship (that I’d guess most every IS student receives it since it is based on GPA, SAT and class rank), tuition, room and board was less than $12,000 for us. </p>
<p>Of the 40% who do not finish at CofC, I’d be interested in knowing how many do go on to complete their degree elsewhere. I can tell you that at every parent forum at accepted students’ day and at the open house I attended, the administration stressed that they were committed to helping students complete their degree in four years.</p>
<p>Susquehanna - my reaction to Rodney’s post about the college counselor’s thumbs down on Susquehanna is that I am not surprised. I have gotten the same reaction - kind of a shrug and a comment that it’s more of a “regional school”. I really would not have heard of it or be considering it if yabeyabe had not brought it to my attention. One thing I have noticed is that Dickinson, Gettysburg, Muhlenberg, etc., all send regional reps to our hs to meet with the GC and the interested seniors - Susquehanna does not. So, demonstrated interest can work both ways. I remain impressed with what I have read and learned about the school - maybe I can educate the GC!</p>
<p>C of C - stillnadine - thank you for continuing to educate me about this school. I understand what you are saying about OOS students might transfer back home. Here in MD - there really is no comparable in-state school that would match C of C in terms of great location, medium size and significant Jewish population. I do know of a few kids from our area who were freshman there this year - I know they have not transferred out - I really have to try and get in touch with some of them.</p>
<p>Eckerd has a lot of unique attributes. Besides allowing small pets - I saw an article on unusual tours - and Eckerd does one by boat and one by an 8-person bicycle. Don’t know if this is routine or just an occasional gimmick, but it did stand out.</p>
<p>I’ll chime in with my 2 cents on Susquehanna and Eckerd. I have visited Susquehanna, but not Eckerd, but we have looked into both schools. </p>
<p>I love the personal connections at Susquehanna. We visited twice and it was fabulous both times. We had a chance to meet several professors and a Dean. I do not think that it is typcial for a Dean to spend at least 30 minutes with one prospie! Now the big negative for me is the location combined with the lack of public transit. We don’t provide cars for college, so public transit is an issue. I was told by a professor that he has never seen a cab, and I was told that there isn’t other public transit. There really is not much in walking distance of the school. As far as labeling it a regional school, that would not bother me at all. </p>
<p>I have not seen Eckerd, but I know it is not in a rural location. I have been told that to walk anywhere one would end up walking on a highway! I have heard that there are buses, but public transit is not very good. We did not look into the school further because of these opinions, which were provided at the time by a co-worker who rented a condo several weeks per year in that area. I took his word for it, as I trust his opinion.</p>
<p>Can you please let us know the feedback you are getting from students you know who attend some of the schools on your list? (Ex. the Business student who graduated from Towson and the local students you know at C of C).</p>
<p>mdcissp, you might want to send a PM to taxguy. He is long time poster and I still see occasional posts from him, so if he reads your PM, he might be able to tell you about Towson.</p>
<p>Thanks Northeastmom. Also want to alert everyone that on the C of C web site tonight, dated 6/7/10, C of C announced a tuition increase. OOS is over $23,000 a year undergraduate tuition. Increase is due to budget cuts.</p>
<p>About that tuition increase, that is why SUNYs and public schools in NC came off our list. Once the number hit the 23,000 range, I did not see any reason for our son attend those schools when we can pay our instate tuition, which is also in the 23,000 range. I did not want to rely on our son holding onto merit aid at a public U either, if that lure would have been there for him.</p>
<p>Critical as I am of most GCs for pushing kids to reach schools, I think parents often hurt the process by not being clear to the GC about their goals. For example, for kids in this GPA range, I think you might get different answers if you say “It is important to my son psychologically to feel he is in the top 50% of the incoming class” or “It is important to our finances to have a good chance at merit aid and for our daughter to graduate in 4 years” or “Our child will do best in an environment where not every kid is gunning for med school, where classes are small so he cannot hide and where a kid who likes intramural sports and video games is not regarded as a dope.”</p>
<p>yabeyabe - have you met my son? You just described him to a T!</p>
<p>mdcissp - the boy I know at Towson will actually graduate in December - he apparently switched his major to finance, hence the extra semester. I hear through the grapevine that he has enjoyed Towson. I am going to contact him directly and interrogate. :)</p>
<p>Not surprised about the C of C tuition increase - but I still find it to be relatively inexpensive, compared with schools over $50,000!</p>
<p>True, $23,000 is less than the $50,000. school. However, in state Maryland is still the bargain in comparison. I think it is important to figure out what benefits the OOS schools (C of C, etc.) have to offer which justifies the extra expense times 4 years. Sometimes there are benefits at private and OOS schools which make sense to justify the extra expense.</p>
<p>23,000 OOS is fairly close to our instate public prices in NJ. Whether a public at this price point is a bargain also depends upon one’s EFC and chances of being awarded merit aid to reduce the 23,000 sticker price. In our family 50,000+ without heavy discounting, was never considered.</p>
<p>Regis in Colorado guarantees graduation in four years or they pick up the tab…and they have a Jewish student group…</p>
<p>[Regis</a> College-liberal arts college offering undergraduate education programs](<a href=“404 - Page Not Found | Regis University”>404 - Page Not Found | Regis University)</p>
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<p>Yabeyabe2 - I see you have met my son as well, although my son IS gunning for med school. We are visiting NYC and Philly next week for Bar/Bat Mitzvahs (two weekends back to back) so will do a prelim look at a few schools. Your quote should be on our list of things to look for. We def are going to see Muhlenberg but we have limited time to see many of the schools on this thread. Plus, I don’t know if my son is going to be an A or B student yet, since he has overloaded his junior year class schedule (and I really think this will tank his GPA).</p>