<p>mdcissp - I live in the DC area and went to school here and was an accounting major. I did not go to AU, so I can’t speak first hand as to the business school, other to say that over the years, I have worked with some very good people who attended AU’s business school. I wouldn’t consider it a weak business school.</p>
<p>Also, I understand your concern about your S getting a job after college, but here I am going against my personality type. After all I am an accountant and we are very conservative and practical by nature. However, I have a D who is as creative as they come. She wants to double major in two artistic fields in college. My friends can’t believe that not only am I supportive of this, but am actually encouraging it. I look at college as not only a time to gain skills to use in the workforce, but a time to gain experience in life in general, explore the things that interest you most and try to find a path to your future. </p>
<p>Most people change careers a few times during their lives. Also, most people are now working in areas that have nothing to do with their majors. We all want whats best for our kids, but none of us can predict what it is. </p>
<p>I am not trying to be critical and I certainly hope you don’t take it that way, I just don’t want you to worry so much about that first job after college. That is a long way away.</p>
<p>MDMOM: Thanks so much for your excellent wisdom. I am not offended in anyway. My son said he wants Business school and expressed interest in Actuary Science. One of my son’s teachers thought Actuary Science was a great fit for my son’s interest and personality.
I want to be sure that the college choice has different options in case he changes his mind. I agree with you that your child should follow his dream and explore new interests. My older son is at USC and has done this because USC offered so many diverse activities, course choices, superb advisor, and just a fantastic range of positive educational options. </p>
<p>At the same time, I am hearing of kids graduating from expensive schools without jobs. It is really tough out there.</p>
<p>In a legal newsletter I received today, there was an article about Duke Law grads being unemployed–it is a very tough world. Everyone has to make their own decision, and kids change their minds over time, but ofr kids without career goals, I think there is a lot to be said for a college which takes helping them find career paths seriously.</p>
<p>These kids are also graduating, in many cases, with huge loansm making the prospect of additional debt for graduate school daunting.</p>
<p>I think many kids not headed to professional school are best off with a major which has vocational potential, while studying their dream field as a minor or separate major.</p>
<p>magicsmom - thanks for mentioning Goucher - I’ve heard good things -but I don’t think it would work for S2 - a little smaller than I had in mind and I don’t think he is quirky/artsy enough!</p>
<p>yabeyabe - your approach makes sense to me. Do a practical major that would facilitate getting a job upon graduation - and then minor in something completely different that you are passionate about - you get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>Thought provoking article considering our recent discussion on practical vs. more impractical majors. Here are examples of students who went to college, could not find a job after graduation, or chose not to complete their degree, and wound up doing well in the trades - plumbing, electrical, etc. I know we are used to bragging about “my son the doctor” as opposed to “my son the plumber” - but it was an interesting read.</p>
<p>Goucher is small, and a small school is not for everyone. You do not have to be artsy to love the school, though, because my son is not. He is a strategy gamer, but that interest has become less significant since he started college. Getting onto the tennis team – which no one would have imagined a year ago – has had a major impact on him. That’s one of the advantages of a small school – he didn’t play much tennis at all before college, but had a friend on the team, worked hard, and somehow managed to get on the roster. He played some exhibition matches, then some real matches, and won one or two of them. He also works out regularly in the gym, and has an active social life. So, a “quirky” kid can change – For sure, Goucher does “change lives”. </p>
<p>This is not directly relevant to this thread, but they really teach you how to write at Goucher. S got a C+ in the first semester freshman writing class (neither of his roommates passed it in the fall) – but, following the spring semester course, S now has begun to think of himself as a good writer, which he did not before. Learning how to write well can be an advantage in a number of different fields. Of course, I’m not saying that Goucher is the only college that will do that!</p>
<p>Thanks for telling me a little more on Goucher. I looked at the Naviance at my son’s school - and the average WGPA is 3.8 and the average accepted ACT is 26 - so it does fit him academically. Goucher has early action; offers a business major; is located within driving range and has plenty of Jewish kids - so you really have hit all of my requirements. I am going to put this is the “need to research” category. Thanks for bringing it to my attention - this is one I would never have thought of as being a fit for my son - but I am open to looking at it since it is so close.</p>
<p>I also heard that Goucher has more women than men. I don’t know for a fact, but it might be easier to get accepted and get some merit scholarship if you are a male applicant to Goucher.</p>
<p>About having a minor in college: It is possible that a student would have to choose between study abroad and a minor. There is probably not time to fulfill requirements for a major, minor and study abroad, unless the study abroad has enough transferrable credits for the major and/or minor.</p>
<p>I believe Goucher has a lot more women than men–it used to be a women’s college. Also a beautiful campus. I am sure men have an edge in admissions and possibly merit aid, although I read a comment suggesting it was not a strong merit aid school and is quite expensive.</p>
<p>I believe a study abroad stint is mandatory, but it need not be a full semester–can be done over the Summer or Winter break.</p>
<p>I recall the graduation rate was lower than I expected. Easy Amtrak and plane access. Baltimore is a fun town.</p>
<p>I’m pretty familiar with Goucher. I took some courses there in the 80’s and my niece graduated a few years ago. It’s an excellent school, but it’s won’t fit everyone. I’s a good fit for kids who want a small LAC with a beautiful, suburban campus and close relationships with professors. There are great study abroad programs and opportunites to play on D III sports teams. There is an active Jewish population at Goucher and at nearby Towson U and JHU. Baltimore has a very strong Jewish community, so Jewish kids should feel very comfortable in the area. The campus is close to a huge mall, movie theaters and restaurants. Downtown Baltimore is about 20 minutes away and offers great restaurants, clubs and major sports events. </p>
<p>On the negative side, the male/female ratio is pretty skewed and the school is very small. I hope this helps.</p>
<p>momjr, excellent points. I have never heard of a former women’s school which was able to achieve reasonable gender balance, in stark contrast to some top former all-male schools. Is there an exceptipn? Although I believe women outnumber men about 54-46 or so in general at colleges, you see a lot of schools, from Vassar and Sarah Lawrence to Goucher, Manhattanville, Muhlenberg and James Madison, with very wide gaps. Often, it is added that those schools have large gay male populations, limiting dating opportunities further.</p>
<p>Hmmm…sounds like we need to visit, as I still can’t tell if S2 would like Goucher or not. Thanks to those of you who have brought it to my attention - although I had heard of it - I never considered it as a fit for S2 - but now I am intrigued.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: If you visit Goucher, please let us know your impression of the Business major. It sounds like Towson has more Business choices. Goucher is down the street from Towson and you could easily see both schools in one day.</p>
<p>Thanks again, rockvillemom for starting the post and to everyone for your excellent contributions! I wanted to return to the esoteric for a moment, because I think that there are more factors about Jewish students thriving in college than just having a certain critical mass or having Jewish programming. Yes, those things are important but I wanted to just say that they are important for reasons and there are some unique aspects about Jewish culture to consider within the context of choosing colleges, but even more importantly, in communicating values and identity to our young people:
There is no concept of individual salvation in Judaism. Therefore, in traditional Judaism, the community becomes way more important than the individual. Some examples of this are the requirement for a minyan, or the use of the collective “we” during Yom Kippur prayers. While Catholics have individual confession to individual sins, Jews have collective atonement only. This is why so many of us want this community for our children in college.
Judaism is not faith based; it is behavior based. Thus, the emphasis on the mitzvot, aad as some people pointed out, the phenomenon of “atheist Rabbis”. In Christianity, people must have faith in order to achieve salvation. In Judaism, people must follow mitzvot and study in order to have the Messiah come (interpreted in modern times as reaching a “Messianic Age” rather than having an actual person who embodies a Messiah).
Judaism emphasizes study, and it specifically emphasizes argument, disagreement, discussion, etc. When we were kicked out of Jersusalem and could no longer perform rituals in the Temple, we learned to study about those rituals and argue and discuss them. The entire Talmud consists of this. Get 12 Jews in a room and you will have at least 14 opinions! A college or workplace where authority is handed down without any chance for discussion is often a poor fit for Jews. Very heirarchical systems that do not allow questioning may be poor fits for Jews. Some Christian or Catholic colleges may have such systems.
Jews were not allowed to own land for thousands of years in Europe, and in some parts of the Middle East. We adapted by going into business and professions. Is it any wonder that Israel has the second largest number of start-ups (after the US) with its tiny population? Every peddler’s cart in Europe, or push-cart on the lower East Side and other cities in America, was a start-up. Thus, the interest in business and professions among so many posters here. (Nevertheless, when we have tried agriculture, as in Israel, we have learned to do that too - mainly because we have studied it!)
Jews have been kicked out of most countries in the world. The Shoah was just the culmination of thousands of years of persecution. We never know where or when the next bad thing might happen.
We feel strongly about continuity. For some reason, we have survived for thousands of years, and we want to continue to survive. The key to this is fostering a strong identity among our children and our children’s children. L’dor V’dor.
I believe that the biggest threat to our continuity in the U.S. is that we are very comfortable here. We can marry the Kennedys and the Clintons. We have succeeded tremendously. We cannot get complacent about our identity just because we have had such success.
We do borrow and share ideas with surrounding cultures. It happened with ancient Egypt, and it is still happening now.
I would like to recommend a book: “Wanderings: An Anthropology of the Jews” by Melvin Konner. It is an outstanding book! It addresses cultural identity. I strongly urge everyone to read it.</p>
<p>RE Jews in America, how many of us growing up, ever expected that:</p>
<ol>
<li>Bagels would be eaten across the US?</li>
<li>There would be a Jewish VP candidate?</li>
<li>A President’s only child would marry a Jew?</li>
<li> Lots of TV shows would feature Jewish main characters without Anglicized names, for example, Seinfeld?</li>
</ol>
<p>levirm: RE: 6 & 7:
D spent a high school semester in Israel. Came back convinced that the two biggest modern threats to the Jewish people are assimilation and Iran. Hard to argue with that.</p>
<p>levirm - I enjoyed your post so much - very thoughtful. Sometimes I feel very ignorant of my own heritage, having had no real Jewish education since my Bat Mitzvah. You have inspired me to add to my summer reading.</p>