Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
13001

<p>A warm welcome to Champs! Forgive me for being engineering-deficient, but hopefully I can be helpful in other ways. </p>

<p>I envy you, perazziman, for having a child who knows what he wants, & in an awesome field - biomedical engineering, to boot!</p>

<p>Which brings me to this…I agree with kathiep that prospective students should hone in on their potential majors when considering a college, including researching the #, variety, & depth of available courses, faculty, research, leadership & co-op ops, academic & supportive orgs, etc. in that major/dept. And I heartily agree that, in the college search process, parents need to balance their need to steer with their child’s need to take the wheel. (Can you tell I have a new young driver in the family?) I find, however, that so many kids:
a) remain clueless/uncertain as to a desirable college major (despite personality tests & exposure to various fields, and thanks to kathiep for helping with RIT program). Really, how many among us could definitvely point to our college major, much less our life’s career, as a Jr in HS?
b) may focus on several possible majors, perhaps too many, which raises more issues
c) once in college change their major anyway d/t a myriad of reasons (from 40-80%-depending on your source-of ug change their major)
d) once out of college, get a job (if they’re lucky)/career path wholly unrelated to their college major.</p>

<p>My DH & I are both big believers in a small school for our D considering D’s personality & work ethic, and our own college experiences. </p>

<p>So, to my point…What to do when your student is not fortunate enough to know his/her college major while on the college hunt? I’ve found myself 2nd guessing my D’s focus on smallish LAC’s offering the *4 specific majors<a href="%22Plus,%20I’d%20really%20like%20a%20ceramics%20studio%20on%20campus.%22">/i</a> in which she’s interested, because it limits her # of potential schools, and have broadened our search (a la EmmyBet & kathiep’s “size doesn’t matter” theory) to include larger schools (with a “small school feel”).</p>

<p>But I still fear she’d be swallowed up in a college of 15,000. So, I vacillate, & we will visit, visit, visit!</p>

<p>BTW, veterans, a ?: In your experience, do colleges, when considering admissions, attempt to fill a quota in specific majors/depts? And, if so, can students enroll at a college for a major just to get their foot in the door, knowing that they’ll change that major once in? And, if so, would you consider this practice unethical?</p>

13002

<p>I’d like to broaden the “know thy major” argument a bit, and that might help you, LuvMom. </p>

<p>Regarding me and my Ds: My D1 and I had somewhat similar patterns, even though our majors ended up being totally different. We both chose our schools based on the foundational liberal arts education that appealed to us. We also wanted a few specific EC opportunities, and a certain type of lifestyle (this sounds a lot like your D). We both made sure that our top 3-4 major possibilities were very strong at our schools, and we knew that however we actually decided, we’d be happy.</p>

<p>My D2 was looking for a very specific program, and in the end when she was deciding among 4-5 schools, she did exactly what has been suggested here, including creating possible 4-year curriculum plans. She was able to give up some of the other facets of a school that she had been hoping for, in order to get the all-important program attributes.</p>

<p>So my short answer is look for whatever academic aspects you want - whether it’s intellectual atmosphere, a group of possible majors, or a definite curriculum. I do believe that in the long run this criterion should be foremost in a college search. </p>

<p>As for saying you want a particular major and then “changing your mind,” I would guess that it happens all the time, so there’s no shame in it. You just have to what you feel comfortable with.</p>

<p>A little story I can share is a friend of mine’s D, who decided against a school she loved upon visiting, because it didn’t have a major she thought every school should have - even though there was little or no chance she would have chosen that subject herself. Fast forward, and she transferred to that school after a year at a school that had every major on earth but that never really felt like a good fit for her otherwise. </p>

<p>No magic answers, but lots of perspectives …</p>

13003

<p>^Good point LuvMomN8ur and thank you. </p>

<p>As the parent of a B student who is interested in studying engineering, we are constantly trying to make sure S has a genuine interest and aptitude for the field before starting college. Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be an easy way for kids to figure out if they like engineering once they get to college. For example, they cannot take just one course to find out if they like it. To finish in four years, engineering students have to take very heavy course loads, right from the beginning. So, if they don’t like engineering, they cannot just drop the one course and get on with their life, it a wasted semester. So we are trying to make sure he is academically ready. Most of the time this involves putting him in science classes to see if he gets fed up and bored with them, but also allowing him to meet interesting people involved in the field so he can see a use for it.</p>

13004

<p>Hey, just want to share:</p>

<p>College Board has come out with a new site called Big Future - yet another tool to help us in the college search enigma. </p>

<p><a href=“https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/[/url]”>https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

13005

<p>wonderful article, rockvillemom. thank you for sharing it.</p>

13006

<p>Hi all my new “friends”. And thanks for the welcome LuvMom! This just keeps getting better and better for me. I discovered CC about a week ago. Now that I found this thread (earlier this week), I decided that my next project is to go to page 1 and start reading. There was a reference (from 2010) about prestige vs fit, and I find this very interesting. Many friends have suggested aiming for the toughest, most prestigious school that my son can get into. My dilemma is that I want to aim for “fit”; I want him to be happy socially and I want him to succeed academically. I don’t think it would be fair for him to feel like he is in a school where he is among the weakest academically.<br>
Perraziman - BU is on my son’s list. We toured it and he loved it. (I didn’t - due to its lack of campus). But he did. And I appreciate your information regarding Engineering.
I am beginning to accept that we probably will not find a “smallish” school. Pittsburgh has also been suggested to us; I guess it’s comparable to BU, but a bit more “campusy” feeling. And I also heard it has a good-size Jewish population.</p>

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<p>Champs… I know a bit about both BU and Pitt. Pitt has more of a campus feel. Many blocks, and you feel like you are on their city campus. BU is much more one long street. BU has a bigger Jewish Population. Much Jappier than Pitts. Pitt has a good size Jewish population.
Sports and school spirit are big at PItt. With the exception of Hockey, no one cares about school spirit and sports at BU. Pitt has a greek scene. </p>

<p>While Pitt has many colleges and CMU across the park, Boston has countless colleges.</p>

<p>Rankings are close enough. BU might be slightly higher. Not enough to change a life…</p>

<p>Pitt is less money than BU.</p>

<p>In the northeast, BU has a bit more prestige…</p>

<p>Those are my comparisons. I do not know anything about Engineering at either school.</p>

13008

<p>champs- if you are looking for a city school with engineering, check out Drexel. engineering school has bout 3,500 students, overall theschool has about 12,000. Nice college neighborhood adjoining U Penn.</p>

13009

<p>champs2004 - I am really moved that you - or anyone - would take the time to read this thread from the beginning! It has been quite a journey for us - and like any journey - much more fun with friends along the way!</p>

<p>On the issue of prestige vs. fit - let me share my thoughts today. A prestigious college gives you something to brag about. It’s the importance you place in the sticker on the back of the car - it’s the value you place on the casual name dropping you can do at a social event. It’s the sense of superiority you can achieve over that cousin you never cared for at the next family event. Yes - it cam also result in valuable networking opportunities for your student and yes - it will look impressive on their resume - that is - assuming they survive to graduate.</p>

<p>A focus on “fit” means you care enough about your child to focus on what is truly best for them - academically and socially. You are willing to endure the “I have never heard of that school” or “Why would you send them there?” comments a gazillion times. It means that although you want your child to be academically stretched and challenged - you don’t want them to be hopelessly overwhelmed. You recognize that their mental health and overall self-confidence are benchmarks too.</p>

<p>There is a joke that goes - “What do you call the student who graduated last in his class at Harvard?” Answer - “A Harvard graduate!”. And while I recognize that for many families - that sums up the prestige vs. fit conundrum in a second - I chose to reject that philosophy.</p>

<p>I believe that finding colleges for a “B” student is a greater challenge. And I appreciate finding a like-minded community of parents who share my philosophy and values. We may not always agree - as you will see if you truly do read through the entire thread - but on this issue - I think we are quite in sync. We are looking for educational opportunities for our kids that will allow them to thrive - have fun while doing so - and if they happen to meet a nice Jewish boy/girl along the way - even better!</p>

13010

<p>RVM - very timely post for us. That issue will be part our final decision discussions!</p>

<p>I started reading this thread because S2 is an A- ish student and although we are not Jewish, I found this thread welcoming and informative. In addition, many of the schools on S2’s list were discussed here.</p>

<p>Yesterday, he was accepted to Boston College - in his “circle” that is a huge deal. It is a great school and he will seriously consider it. The funny this is, I do think part of his interest is the reaction he gets when he tells people that he got in. Its a “Wow, great school - congratulations” compared to “Oh, o.k., where is that?” for some of his other acceptances. I do think all of his schools are a good “fit” although I do believe that his quality of life would be better at some, over some others.</p>

<p>As of now, the jury is still out. He is waiting on 1 more school - whew! This process has been exhausting and I am SO ready for him to make a darn decision!!</p>

13011

<p>Champs2004: My D2 is a freshman at BU and she really loves it. Like you, I was a bit put off by the noisy urban campus at first, but I realized that I wasn’t the one attending. She has found many nice spots on campus and really loves having access to the city. She is doing an internship in downtown Boston and takes the “T” there twice a week. She hasn’t gotten involved with Hillel but has made lots of Jewish friends.</p>

<p>Dwhite: Congrats on your son’s acceptance to BC. The prestige issue is very tricky and I would never put prestige above fit. However, I have observed that prestige does come into play when students are looking for jobs senior year. Good luck with the decision.</p>

13012

<p>dwhite, How wonderful for you & your S…congrats! Do your research & then let him go with his good gut.</p>

<p>my .02: When hooking a job upon graduation from college, while not much trumps a Harvard degree, internships & co-ops become an important factor, for both the hands-on value & the network enhancing value. So, pay attention to these programs offered at your child’s potential school.
I totally agree with Champs & RVM…Fit over prestige 100%! Great words of wisdom, RVM, thanks.</p>

<p>Champs, I also read the thread from day 1 (b4 I joined) - enlightening & enjoyable. Grateful to all :)</p>

13013

<p>This has been said before, but it bears repeating: “prestige” and “name value” are much more fluid that most people think. It’s a big country, and there are only a handful of schools (HYP, etc.) that “everyone” has heard of. </p>

<p>Schools with a location name, in my opinion, don’t count. Where I live, most of the time when I saw my D goes to school near NYC, someone says, “Oh, NYU?” The same thing happened when D1 went to Tufts; I knew people probably hadn’t heard of it (no matter how it’s ranked!) so I would say she went to school in Boston. “Oh, BU? BC?” was almost always the answer. Not only because of the word Boston in the school name, but also because of sports.</p>

<p>I went to a school that is almost always confused with the mid-level public U in the same city. I always thought that was funny, not insulting. I learned a lot about the person I was talking to if they got the school right.</p>

<p>Alumni networks are wonderful, and they can be strong and effective even at “no-name” schools. But all of these concepts - as with size and other aspects - are hard for kids this age (or any age?) to understand.</p>

13014

<p>Hi folks, I’m reporting from Aggieland (Texas A&M) as S2 sleeps. BTW still no clear decison as of last night, or I should say early this morning.</p>

<p>I am writing now because what we learned visiting Hillel and the Jewish community here is quite amazing and I think is a testament to how Jews seek and create community and also what can be accomplished with continuity of strong leadership. I know that there will be few if any of you who will even glance at TAMU but perhaps knowing about this community will help you with your search. The present home of Hillel is modest to say the least. It is a small office with a couple of small rooms behind a strip mall. The old building has been torn down to make way for a state of the art amazing new building which is under construction and expected to open this summer. This building is the product of a long term fundraising effort. The Hillel rabbi who has been with Hillel for just under 30 years, 3 students and the activity director and former student, greeted us and were warm and welcoming and all seemed to love their Jewish experience at the school. This seems to be a place where being part of a small group makes you count more and it seems that many students step up to that challenge. We joined approximately 20 students for typical Friday night services. There is also a Chabad house that serves the campus and we were told that attendance for Hillel services was down this year while services are being held in a chapel on campus. After service my S joined the group and some additional students at the fraturnity house. The brief description I got from my S when he came back was, that the group “chilled” and watched a movie. He said he felt very comfortable and welcome and enjoyed meeting everyone and found a few familiar faces from our Temple there. In April all of the Jewish organizations will have a combined open house event to greet incoming Jewish students. (We hope to have decision by the time this one rolls around). In my discussion with the Rabbi we were informed that TAMU has a policy not to schedule any exams on Jewish holidays and that students who are not in attendance in observance of Jewish holidays are not counted as absent (among teachers that take attendance.) They also mentioned that major events are arranged to not conflict with the Jewish holidays and that one Parent’s weekend was rescheduled because it conflicted with the second night seder of Pesach. The Hillel group gets together for social activities and/or tzadaka activities a couple of times a week. I know that if my S chooses TAMU that this will be a unique Jewish experience for him. The thing about this that is so incredible is that when beginning the college search I had come across a couple of items on the internet that made me concerned about antisemitism at TAMU and it wasn’t until looking at the school up close that I came to realize that Judism is thriving among the minority of Jewish students at the school.</p>

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<p>Dwhite, congrats on BC. It is a school that offers so much. Excellent academics, nice campus, proximity to a great college city, and fantastic school spirit and sports. Am I allowed to ask what else is he considering? I am sure he has great choices.</p>

<p>Spectrum, nice to hear the TAMU report. I am not surprised by the closeness of the tight Jewish community. is the general population as deeply conservative as rumored? Is the fit at tamu better than Austin. I know form our discussions, each has it’s pluses and minuses. Can’t wait to hear his choice. Best wishes as this unfolds. Sounds like the last girl seen, might be remembered as the prettiest.</p>

13016

<p>Just want to send best wishes to those who are now weighing options and will be making a final decision over the next few weeks. If you want our input - let us know the options on the table and the pros and cons as you see them. If not - then let us know once the decision is made!</p>

<p>spectrum - thanks for the TAMU update. I think you have illustrated the observation that others on this thread have made that it is not just the size in absolute numbers of the Jewish population on a particular campus that matters - but the vibrancy and activity level of the involved Jewish students - regardless of their number.</p>

13017

<p>Congrats to dwhite and family!!..</p>

<p>I must add that we started this thread, my younger daughter’s school ( Elon ) was met with “heh? Where and what is that?” …now, very, very different…many of my juniors are asking me about the school ( and they don’t know my daughter.). </p>

<p>For those of you who “know” me, the word “prestige”, as is the word “popular”, is considered a four-letter word around here…</p>

<p>We know too many graduates of prestigious schools in our extended family who are unemployed or wandering through life…</p>

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<p>Glad to hear that rodney!</p>

<p>Congratulations to those with new acceptances!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>We do too, but not necessarily in our extended family. It is not only about the school. It is very much about the person. We have a few members in our extended family who graduated from what was then not considered to be known/great schools. They have very good jobs today (and have for many many years) because of HARD WORK and also luck. They paid their dues after graduation and were willing to work very hard for their employers.</p>

<p>Also, my son is attending a small “unknown” school that was a safety for him. He is being offered opportunities to try things that he would not have gotten at a reach school, or a larger school. Just something to think about, although nobody knows that they would get similar opportunities until they are already firmly planted on their campus.</p>

13019

<p>Congratulations Dwhite, we are only contemplating 2 schools but I am at the edge of my seat waiting for a decision and also SOOO ready for it to be made!!!</p>

<p>Haha, Socaldad,it could be that way but I think my S has finally noticed that he has been making snap decisions and then changing his mind. I asked him if there was anything further that he wanted to see at UT but for the moment he just wants to think about it. He told us and his gf that he was not going to discuss his choice until he has a week to quietly think about it. He however told me that if one of the schools came in with a good money offer it would make the choice easy. I’m not counting on that but FA for either one hasn’t come in yet. As for the conservative question. That is a little hard for me to answer. I don’t see TAMU as being any more conservative than our general community which is probably much more conservative than most of your communities and definitely more conservative than Socal. Most, but not all of the kids we met were from Texas and while some from Dallas and Austin may have a different experience most of them are probably like my S and used to being around a conservative group. The interesting thing that came up in a discussion was that one person mentioned that if you are a liberal at TAMU people will quietly listen to your position while in Austin if you are conservative (Republican) people will not accept your position at all. As a guest I wasn’t in a position to argue that point but that is contrary to my perception. As I have said there are great things about each school and I don’t think there is a bad choice to be made. I think that Aggies tend to overplay the liberalism of UT at least as much as the UT crowd overplays the conservatism of TAMU. To listen to some Aggies speak UT is filled with druggie, partying types in school for the experience and without goals. My feeling has been that anytime you have a class as large as each of these are there will be room for quite a lot of variance in thought and philosophy. I think that this is one advantage of a large school. I guess it is because I don’t buy into either stereotype that making the choice is so difficult. Truely for most people in these parts it is one or the other each is percieved so differently from the other. Right about now I wish we saw it that way.</p>

13020

<p>Hi,everyone. I’ve been a lurked on this thread for a while. I’ve been especially interested in Spectrum2’s posts since we’re in Texas, too. (Your S probably knows my D since they both went to Greene Family Camp). My D goes to a super-competitive public high school in Houston and will probably not be in the top 8 or 9% of her class. So, while she’s an A- student, she won’t be an auto admit into UT or A&M.
At this point, D is not interested in A&M because there are relatively few Jews. She has had enough experience with other students informing her that she is going to Hell, even at a cosmopolitan, urban high school. I don’t know whether that is something she would have to deal with everywhere. She understands that they might actually be concerned about her immortal soul, but it does get tedious. I’d be interested in knowing from the A&M Jewish students how often people try to convert them.</p>