<p>Just a thought for the pre-actuaries among you: How about majoring in statistics. You’d get a lot of the training that actuaries get, but likely with more intellectual dexterity. It would probably be relatively easy to learn what you need for the actuarial exams, if that is the path you choose, but there are, I believe, no shortage of jobs for people who can analyze data and explain what they learned. They are terrific jobs at the higher end in finance and data mining among others.</p>
<p>The way I understand it is there are majors and programs which actually prepare the student to take the exams in actuary science. Must pass these exams in order to be certified to work as an actuary. My son is signed up to take Statistics senior year. It will tell us if he likes this area of study.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom: Your son can take regular Statistics senior year along with AP Calculus.
I think your analysis about JMU being competitive for the business school is correct. This is why UMCP is a red flag–what happens if you take all the pre-requisites for B-school, are qualified gpa wise, and still don’t get in because these are competitive impacted programs? I suggest you find out how competitive it is to get into JMU business school after taking all the pre-requisite classes.</p>
<p>Given my concern about the secondary admissions process into the College of Business at JMU, I posted on the JMU board asking for experiences in that area. I had a response from a rising senior who says he e-mailed admissions on this question and was told that 60% of applicants to CoB are accepted. The 40% that are not accepted have to either switch to a different major or transfer elsewhere if they only want to major in business. I am going to have my son e-mail with some additional questions - but I really don’t like the sound of this.</p>
<p>Everyone has to make their own decision, but that 60% figure seems ominously low, especially at a school whose party reputation suggests kids who are not very task-oriented may wander off-course freshman year.
It suggests that their business school has not kept up with student demand–has this also caused a strain on class size and placement services?
Check, too, what sort of academic advising/mentoring freshmen receive–with 4000+ freshmen, will you and your child have a safety net if he strays into the danger zone?</p>
<p>One of the questions that I would have is the 60% admission rate because that is all of the slots that they have, so basically you are applying for college again. Or is it because only 60% of the applicants meet the minimum standards that they have set for entry into the Business College? When I went to school, in order to get into the accounting program you had to have a 2.5 gpa (I think that was it) at the end of sophmore year. It was self selecting. In that instance if only 60% were accepted that wouldn’t deter me from applying to the school to begin with. If the standards are unreasonably high, or there aren’t enough spots, that would be a huge red flag and I would cross it off my list. Two much stress for child and parents!</p>
<p>mdmom - in my post above - #1359 - I quoted from the JMU CoB website where they say that meeting the minimum requirements does not guarantee admission and that final admissions decisions are based on resources. This leads me to conclude that they have a set number of open slots and that’s it - so - I don’t think it is that only 60% meet the standards - it’s that they have way more applicants than open slots - so like you said - you are basically applying to college again. </p>
<p>I think this is kind of a deceptive practice. At the very least - they should cull the herd at the end of freshman year rather than at the end of sophomore year. How awful would it be to be at the end of sophomore year - have completed the 10 prerequisite courses - have the minimum GPA, but not be accepted? Even if you are willing to stay at JMU and switch majors - then you are probably behind for that new major. I just don’t like this one bit. I am hoping that as we do more visits over the next year JMU falls by the wayside.</p>
<p>Rockvillemom - from what you just said, that would be a deal breaker to me. Hopefully, as you said JMU will fall by the wayside as he sees more schools.</p>
<p>FWIW 100 years ago when I applied to PT school it was exactly the same way. Students spent fresh and soph year completing prerequesite courses and then applied to the PT program for Junior year. Generally by that time students had a good idea if they were going to be competitive but the programs sizes were limited so not getting in was always a possibility. Most people I knew applied to multiple schools after sophmore year. Most also had a plan B in mind if they didn’t get in. For some this was an alternate major and possibly applying to an entry level MS program and for some it was taking a gap year trying to gain experience that would increase chances for the following year. This was stressful but it came with the territory. It is definitely easier to know that you are set for 4 years and I would also prefer my S to have admission as a freshman. I wouldn’t however consider this circumstance a deal breaker if other things seemed right. So many students change their career path after freshman year anyway.</p>
<p>It’s the same at many nursing schools. They may say “admission is competitive” on the web site and say you need a minimum GPA of 2.5 and to take certain pre-reqs, but when you track someone down and ask for specifics, they tell you that they have slots for less than 25% of the applicants, they choose strictly by GPA, and they don’t give preference to their own students! </p>
<p>Knowledge is power. You do not want your child to be stuck in a different major or having to take extra semesters, that you have to pay for, before being allowed to continue in their chosen program.</p>
<p>I think Rockville Mom is being very smart to figure this out about pre-requisites and % accepted to B-schools before her son even applies as a freshman. For us, only 60% being accepted after the end of soph. year is definitely a deal breaker. Thanks so much for saving us a trip out to explore JMU. I don’t want my son going to a school where after taking 10 classes, having to apply to an impacted, limited number of spots program, and then who knows what happens next In fact, Smith Business at UMCP, as I understand it, has a procedure where you apply at the end of soph. year. You could be accepted to Smith Business at the UMCP campus, or accepted to Smith Busiiness at the Shady Grove campus, or end up with nothing. We drove to see the Shady Grove campus and my son said he is not applying there-has a commuter feel. UMCP is off our list. Anyone know what the story is at Towson Business? How competitive is it? Anyone know if there are any good undergrad business schools with some Jewish life, for B plus students, where you start Business from day one, or at least without this 10 courses and then apply end of soph year? I encourage everyone here, including Rockville Mom, to check out the B-school requirements before heading out for a campus tour to be sure your child can study business without another competitive application.</p>
<p>mdcissp - the next school we plan to visit is Susquehanna - and I thank yabeyabe for bringing this one to my attention - would not have been on my radar otherwise. They have a strong business program and the freshman start from day one. All freshman take a business class first semester = which I think is an important part of the bonding experience - making friendships, etc. There is no secondary application. It’s a good fit for a B student. Jewish life is small - but growing. New Hillel advisor and new Hillel house. I drove through the area in May on the way back from Rochester - it is fairly rural - probably my biggest issue would be is there enough to do on the weekends? But I have to say the campus was beautiful and the buildings all looked new. I’m looking forward to getting out of the car and doing the info session and tour in September. I am also trying to arrange for us to meet with some Hillel reps - and I will certainly post our impressions afterwards.</p>
<p>Did some more reading on the College of Business website last night. Freshman take 5 classes that are prerequisites - including calculus, statistics, computers and economics. If at the end of freshman year the GPA is low (I think 2.5) they are sent to meet with an advisor to select another major and are not allowed to register for classes for sophomore year in business. This makes sense. But I’m still alarmed that someone could get to the end of sophomore year with all 10 classes completed - with the 2.8 GPA and still not be accepted into the program.</p>
<p>I also looked at the requirements for the sports mgmt major - on the surface - the required classes looked interesting and there is no secondary application that I could find. But it seems that you are required to also minor in business and the choice of minors was very odd - there was no generic marketing minor or mgmt minor - it was Chinese business or mgmt science (very computer oriented) and as I looked at the courses required for the minors - it just didn’t seem to be a good fit. I also don’t care for the requirement of a business minor - maybe there would be other minors he would prefer instead. So, I’m pretty much done researching JMU. Hoping S2 finds more to like with the schools we are visiting in the fall. But like I said before, I really wish I had done this research BEFORE we visited the school.</p>
<p>rockvillemom, I love that school! I can’t say enough about the 2 positive visits we had there with one of our children. In the end, he did not pick this school because it was just way too rural for his needs (no car). Had public transit been readily available, he would have probably attended.</p>
<p>You loved which school? JMU or Susquehanna? I’m hoping you mean Susquehanna. I’m very interested to see my son’s reaction. He’s not a city person - not the type to want to go out to clubs or visit museums, etc. And he certainly doesn’t shop! He lives in shorts and t-shirts. A pair of khaki shorts and a golf shirt is his version of formal wear. So, I’m thinking rural will be ok as long as there are enough clubs, intermural sports, Hillel, etc. And I have to add that a car is not out of the question - maybe not freshman year - but buying him an inexpensive used car later on is not a dealbreaker if that would make a big difference - so I am very curious to see his reaction. After this whole JMU mess, I would be very happy if he loved Susquehanna!</p>
<p>rockvillemom, I agree with your thinking!! We simply could not afford a car and the college bill there. It was going to be a huge stretch for us. Otherwise, we would have said yes to Susquehanna. Truly, without a car, I imagine living there is pretty difficult, but this is just my opinion. </p>
<p>As far as the education, the opportunities, etc., it looked fabulous to us!</p>
<p>So good to hear that! S1 is at Wake Forest and although he has a car - we have not yet allowed him to bring it to school for various reasons - maybe in the spring. One of the things I have found is that he has plenty of friends with cars - so leaving campus to go to play golf, out to a movie, to a sporting event, etc., has not been a problem - and of course he always chips in for gas. Perhaps this is selfish of me - but it seems easier to have friends with cars than to actually bring your own car to campus and have to deal with parking, maintenance, etc. But if he reaches the point that he needs a car at campus - for an internship, for example, than we would work it out. </p>
<p>And I would do the same for S2 - if he wound up at a rural school like Susquehanna and felt he needed a car - not out of the question. As DH says, we are in so much debt already, what’s a little more!</p>
<p>Would you send your kid to a school with very few Jews if it were otherwise the perfect school? I have a premonition that this will become a choice. Two schools on ShawD’s Canadian list on paper are just what the doctor ordered: high quality, low pressure, out in the middle of nowhere and relatively small which leads to close bonding and strong positive experience, likely good for pre-med or related career, plus like all the Canadian schools, very inexpensive for us. But, in my investigations there is a Jewish Students Association with 10 to 20 active members. More Jews on campus, but not a big percentage. The bigger schools on her list have active Jewish communities.</p>
<p>Are you ruling out schools that have small Jewish populations? I went to a high school with 3 Jewish kids in my graduating class of 400 (with a latent anti-Semitic feel in a town whose realtors hadn’t sold houses to Jews) and to an Ivy that had relatively low percentage of Jews (and a latent anti-Semitic feel at the time) but at least half of my close friends from college were Jewish. Unlike my kids, I attended synagogue every week until I was 13 and led junior congregation and read the Torah at the adult services. I more or less dropped organized Judaism from age 14 or so until we had kids. I found organized Judaism devoid of spirituality and find it instead hiking in big mountains. Because of the base I had during my childhood, not having lots of Jews in my classes probably strengthened my Jewish identity. I don’t know how it would work with my kids. </p>
<p>What are your thoughts?</p>
<p>This is a difficult question for me to answer because my knee-jerk response is to say no, that I would not send my son to a school with few Jewish students even if it were otherwise a great fit - yet - that is exactly what we have done with S1 who attends Wake Forest. </p>
<p>To be fair though, S1 is not terribly interested in Jewish life - and I know that trying to cram it down his throat will only backfire - and Wake is the perfect fit for him in every other way - so there you go. He had a great freshman year and is really looking forward to returning to school in 3 weeks.</p>
<p>S2 is very involved with Jewish life through BBYO - it is his main EC and he spends a lot of time on it every week - even during the summer. So, for him, a vibrant Hillel is a must have. I could deal with a relatively small Jewish population on campus as long as the Hillel was active and Jewish students were welcomed. Sometimes you find a campus that has a small Jewish population - but it is growing with each incoming class and you can see that the administration wants Jewish students and is taking steps to promote Jewish life on campus - hiring a full-time Hillel advisor, developing a Jewish studies minor - things like that - and that would be ok too. It’s the smaller schools with maybe 25 Jewish kids and no Hillel that I would avoid.</p>
<p>shawbridge - just to elaborate further - we have eliminated an in-state option - Salisbury - which would have made a great academic and financial safety - as there are few if any Jewish students and there has not been a Hillel for over 5 years due to lack of interest. Also eliminated High Point for this reason - DH wanted to visit it when we see Elon but I am adamant that we not do so - aside from the overall strange response the HPU seems to generate on CC - what’s the point of seeing a beautiful campus with great amenities if there are no Jewish students - I just don’t see a reason to investigate it further. Also briefly looked at schools like Roanoke and decided they would not work for the same reason. But as I said above - I don’t have an absolute required number of Jewish students in mind - just some degree of Jewish life on campus and an overall feeling of being wanted and welcomed.</p>
<p>shawbridge- I think it really depends on the kid. For my d, it really doesn’t matter whether I send her to a school with a lot of Jews and an active Hillel or not. I know she won’t have anything to do with it (this despite bat mitzvah, confirmation and 10 years of attending and working at a sleep away Jewish camp!!)…so…at least it makes it a little easier to find schools :)</p>