<p>shawbridge: I think it depends a lot on your kid’s comfort zones and also on how important it is for your kids to find Jewish significant others. Particularly at the college level you can expect that if there are not other Jews around interfaith relationships will happen. (They are likely to happen even if there are other Jews around.) I totally agree, living in a region with a small Jewish population heightens a sense of Jewish identity. If your kids have grown up in a Jewish community being one of very few can be a bit of a shock. My kids have grown up in public schools with virtually no other Jews and they are very comfortable with it. On the other hand when I moved south from NYC there was a learning curve for me to understand the shift in culture. (In our community aside from there being no Jews there are also many devout Christians who have never met a Jew. It is a bit of pressure when you feel like the impressions these people have about Jews will largely be colored by interfacing with you.)This could be difficult for a student who is also changing everything else in their lives, IMO. The bottom line for me is while I would much prefer for my kids to go to a school with a strong Hillel or similar group I would consider them being a small minority if everything else seemed very right but I would go into this with my eyes open.</p>
<p>RM: Just to clarify I think it is great and essential that you are checking out the methods of getting into a B program. It would be aweful to go into a school and be blindsided in soph year. We are also weighing our decison based on this info. S as a soph, is on the cusp of eligibility for admission to UT Austin and this has always been attractive to him. It’s impossible to know at this point if his rank will get him into UT. He however, will not be admitted into the B program as a freshman, that writing is on the wall. UT has a really strong B school so he is considering the possibility of trying to transfer into that program or possibly go to another school, like UTDallas or possibly Texas A&M that he could get admitted to the program as a freshman. He hasn’t yet caught the OOS bug and as long as he hasn’t I’m not pushing for it. </p>
<p>For those of you considering B school. My S has also decided, and this could change, that this is the route he wants to go. He has great math skills and a gregarious personality. I don’t think that accounting or actuary work are calling him. He is more the get out there and be with people kind of person. He has no idea what his focus in B school would be. do any of you have any ideas about that?</p>
<p>Regarding going to a school with few Jewish students, I can’t see that happening for either of my D’s. They have grown up in a heavily Jewish area, are both involved in BBYO and have attended Jewish sleep away camp for many years (they are there now!). While they both have many, many friends who are not Jewish, I think that they would feel like a fish out of water at a school with few Jews. D1 has expressed this also.</p>
<p>Spectrum2 - I just want to put in a plug for the accounting profession! People skills are a huge asset (no pun intended!) for accountants. The days of just sitting in an office crunching numbers are gone. If your S went into public accounting a huge portion of time gets spent on client relations, especially as he would move up the corporate ladder. In public accounting, the senior staff also go on sales calls. Yes, you need accounting skills to succeed, but the most successful accountants also tend to have great people skills.</p>
<p>Shawbridge brings up an interesting question, and I have a complex response. First of all, I believe that Jewish continuity is very, very important and I think that we need to communicate that to our children clearly and often. Hollisue, never say never because these are still adolescents and their task of development is to find identity. I think that we have the responsibility of trying our best to create situations where Jewish identity is passed on from generation to generation…we have survived for thousands of years and we need to keep doing that. Another task of development of adolescence is to conform to peers, so therefore most of us are concerned about the behavior of those peers. Some college students will have already mastered that and are ready to move on to finding intimacy (which many of them are experimenting with already)…so who are they going to find intimacy with? I think that there is a rare student out there who has such a strong sense of Jewish identity that he or she would commit himself or herself to Jewish continuity despite a very small community. You probably know if you have one of those. But the other side of this is cultural. Jewish culture is based on discussion, on having different opinions, on questioning. If the surrounding culture does not tolerate those behaviors, we can get frustrated, or get ourselves in trouble for speaking up. In any case, I expect people on this forum to have different opinions on this - we are Jewish, after all! :)</p>
<p>Spectrum2, How about Business Interest + Gregarious= Marketing? But accountants certainly can benefit greatly from people skills.</p>
<p>Re what to do when an otherwise great fit has few Jewish kids, everyone has to make their own difficult decision. I never thought that would come up with schools not far from NJ, because I assumed any good school with business courses and a nice campus would attract many Jewish kids from in an area with so many Jewish college students. After all, if Lutheran-affiliated Muhlenberg could attract 20%+, surely finding similar schools with 10% should be easy?</p>
<p>But that is not the case. Susquehanna, Gettysburg, Elizabethtown, Juniata, Moravian, Ursinus, Salisbury, Lycoming are all quality small schools–some in Colleges That Change Lives, some in Colleges of Distinction-with very good graduation rates, friendly atmospheres, supportive faculties, nice or very nice campuses, welcoming to inquiries from students with obviously Jewish names–but small Jewish populations.</p>
<p>Then, you add in the X Factor that kids (especially girls, from what I have read) will be turned off by things we do not consider important–a rainy day making kids look unhappy; the smell of gingko tree fruit; a nerdy tour guide; gothic architecture; a handful of overdressed kids; an odd sounding school or team name–and it is amazing more parents do not go insane (and perhaps, without the opportunity to vent on CC, we would!).</p>
<p>One of the interesting dilemmas involving small colleges with few Jewish students is that many Jewish families are like ours and will not attend unless Jewish life is already present - but how does the college attract Jewish students in the first place if having a good number of Jewish students is a prerequisite? So to me, it’s not just the actual number but the effort I see the school putting into recruitment of Jewish students. I mean - I don’t expect every college to go to the lengths that Vanderbilt did a few years back - but Gettysburg is a good example - they have grown from about 50 to about 150 Jewish students in the past few years and are starting a Judaic studies minor - so I see effort and that counts too.</p>
<p>spectrum2 - I have no idea what type of business S2 might want - but my thinking is whatever options have less math/statistics - maybe marketing - maybe organizational studies (Gettysburg) - maybe sports mgmt (Elon). I don’t think he would choose finance or accounting - but you never know.</p>
<p>Anyone have thoughts on Univ. of Tampa, Eckerd or Univ. of Miami? Not sure if we are going to consider Florida due to the distance - but I’d love to hear from anyone who has kids at any of these schools. I picked these 3 because of size - Miami would be the largest at about 10,000 students - Tampa is about 5000 and Eckerd just under 2000 - so that’s the range we would prefer to be in. All offer business majors - with Miami and Tampa having more options than Eckerd. I think S2 would be accepted at Eckerd and Tampa - Miami would be more of a stretch for him. I know very little about these 3 schools and would welcome anecdotes.</p>
<p>S2 would also consider sports mgmt as a major - which both Tampa and Miami offer. I think this is an interesting option for him - I could see him more readily working at a mgmt level at an amusement park/sports venue/recreational facility than at a corporate job at a bank or accounting firm, etc.</p>
<p>because I am reading my Jewish cousin’s facebook posts about taking his 2-month old son to be “dedicated” (whatever that means) at his wife’s church. When they married, he said they would expose the baby to both faiths etc. - that sure didn’t last long. The wife belongs to some new age church that meets in someone’s home - every Sunday I see cousin’s posts about going to church with wife and baby - and now this. The pastor wrote back that he knows the baby will grow up to be a “bold Christian”. I think I have to unfriend my cousin - I really find these posts upsetting.</p>
<p>Even mainstream christians can find these off shoots unsettling and saddening. The direction of the group is typically led by an individual or 2 interpreting scripture as they go along with little theological grounding. It is difficult to stomach at times but important to know where they are coming from if for no other reason than to moderate their influence in your community, schools and yes family.</p>
<p>If you like Susquehanna, you might also like Juniata and Ursinus. Both are in CTCL, both are in rural PA. Ursinus is fairly close to Philly, and Juniata is in the western part of the state and is one PA’s prettiest small towns. </p>
<p>A quick check of their web sites showed active Hillels, and business majors of varying types.</p>
<p>I also feel that Susquehanna is over 2000 students - while Ursinus and Juniata are only 1500 - I think that makes a difference - we are trying to stay above 2000.</p>
<p>Unless your child needs a very small college or there is a particular stand out program at a particular small school, I think these small colleges are riskier than larger schools because of fewer resources. If your child changes his mind about a major (which is a frequent occurrence), are there enough academic majors at the same school to avoid a transfer situation? If the Hillel is very small, and your child doesn’t click with the few kids who show up, then what?</p>
<p>Rockville Mom’s son sounds like an outgoing, social personality. I suggest spending a Shabbat dinner at the prospective schools and see if your son likes the Hillel director and thinks he will make friends at the Hillel. </p>
<p>From your description, I think you should look at schools with at least 300 active Hillel kids, several different business options (marketing, sports management, and something else) for a safer fit. Not sure your son will be happy at Susquehanna. I never heard of it until it came up on this thread. I am not sure why Rockville Mom thinks her son will thrive at such a small school with smaller resources.</p>
<p>Florida: We refuse to consider it because the state is in terrible shape. However, if Rockville Mom’s son loves the water, doesn’t mind the humidity, and an entirely different vibe than in the DC area, then maybe Florida schools are worth investigating.</p>
<p>Rockville Mom; Please let me know what you think of Towson which I honestly think is your best local safety school (has the academics, enough Jewish life, nice area, etc.). I realize the parking is a bummer at Towson, but there might be enough other good things about it to consider that school.</p>
<p>Here is a link to Susquehanna’s majors [Susquehanna</a> University - Academics](<a href=“http://susqu.edu/academics/default.asp]Susquehanna”>http://susqu.edu/academics/default.asp) I do not see a lot missing and there is an entire AASCB acredited business school with quite a few options. Yes, it is not that well known a school.
To have 300 Hillel kids, you need quite a large school. And I am not sue what the advantage is of 300 vs. for example 50–50 strikes me as more likely to be a close-knit group.</p>
<p>It depends on the child and the school whether the a larger school has greater resources than a small school–especially greater resources per student. Some children will do much better with small classes taught by professors, not teaching assistants, and where department heads, placement heads, and administrators know every student. In addiiton, in smaller schools, it may be much easier to be a leader of an activity and to get into the classes you want.</p>
<p>The points made by Greenwitch, Northeast and Rockville about Juniata, Suisquehanna and Ursinus are all accurate. I think both are somewhat more intellectual than Susquehanna, which is more practical (many more business and education majors), although its music and creative writing departments are standouts. It depends on a student’s goals which is the right choice.</p>
<p>mdmomfromli: Thanks for the plug about accounting. I think you are right my image of the field is as you say crunching numbers in an office. Public relations is more his style. I guess he needs to keep his mind open about this.</p>
<p>yabeyabe2: Marketing was also a thought and is definitely a direction I can see him going. I am however concerned about how well marketing majors do after graduation both with regard to grad school admisssion and employment.</p>
<p>RM: First sorry about your cousin, I know that is always difficult. …Finance might also be a direction S might like,my kiddo is with yours preferring an amusement park or sports venue to a bank. But who knows? I agree with Mdcissp going to a school that offers multiple options is a good thing. I however do see advantages to large and small schools. S1 wanted no part of a large school and now that he is past freshman year I can see he was right.</p>
<p>Mdcissp: I could have sworn that I heard a story on NPR that Towson hand a new state of the art parking complex, either under construction or newly completed. Did I get that wrong?</p>
<p>This is why I think it is very important for Rockville Mom’s son to visit Hillel for Shabbat dinner or some other major activity to see if he likes the Hillel director and if he thinks there is a social fit. It is a very personal decision. You can walk into a very small Hillel and think this is your group, or feel it is too small and no one is like me, never to return. I like larger Hillel’s because I think a variety of events will attract different kids with a greater chance of finding some friends.</p>
<p>I also want to put in a plug for writing CampusVibe visit reports. They are a big help, especially regarding small schools which are not much discussed. FYI, someone just posted one on Gettysburg.</p>
<p>One of the things that matters to me in terms of fit is that my son is not by any stretch of the imagination an “intellectual”. Doesn’t mean that he isn’t a bright kid - but he is more practical and outcome oriented. I do have concerns over Susquehanna’s small size and rural location - but I like enough of what I have heard and read about it to make the trip and visit in September. I don’t see S2 heading off to grad school - yes things could change - but my focus is on a practical degree that will enable him to find a job when he graduates. if he later decides to go to grad school - for an MBA or other masters degree - wonderful - but it would surprise the heck out of me. </p>
<p>I also think he would do best at a college of from 2000 - 5000 students - which can be hard to find. He’s the type of kid who can be confident and show leadership qualities in a small group - but would be silent in a larger one. So, a smallish Hillel is not necessarily a bad thing - say 30 - 50 active members - I could see that working for him. But we’ll see - visiting Susquehanna in Sept. and then Muhlenberg in October. I want to fit in Towson and York College as well - just not sure when.</p>
<p>I heard that Towson is building more parking, but also heard that there are some students who are getting $3,000 a year in parking tickets.</p>
<p>Despite the parking hassles at Towson, my son will apply to Towson because it offers the largest business school in Maryland (for a state school), has an accounting major, has classes to prepare for the Actuary exam, has a Hillel, nice area, can easily come home via Amtrak on the week-ends if desired.</p>
<p>My son feels Towson is too big and did not like the dorm room. He likes UT Dallas better.
However, he needs to get the $1,000. merit scholarship as an OOS student to get the in-state UT Dallas tuition. I don’t like the idea of paying OOS tuition for a state school.</p>
<p>He says he would consider SUNY Binghamton if it were in a lively area–area sounds quiet.</p>
<p>I told my son to stay in state and then apply to UT Dallas for grad school if he thinks he wants to live in Dallas. </p>
<p>I also happen to really like Salisbury, except the location is lousy and no Hillel-a problem.
I was the most impressed with the staff I met at Salisbury. Everyone was very enthusiastic and genuinely interested in the students. I sensed that what is appealing about Susquehanna and other small universities-getting to know your professors–something that happens at Salisbury. </p>
<p>My son has Aspergers and if he could instantly have an interesting, academic discussion with some professors at Salisbury at the open house, and walk away feeling positive about the academic offerings, that says great things about the staff. Also, the staff I met seemed more down to earth. I just really liked the staff at Salisbury.</p>
<p>I told my son to apply to Salisbury and re-visit after hopefully being accepted and then see what he thinks.</p>
<p>In Florida - we would only be considering small - medium private colleges - primarily Eckerd, Univ. of Tampa and Univ. of Miami. We visit Florida pretty much every year - m-i-l lives in the West Palm area - so S2 is pretty familiar with the state. We were in Miami 3 winters ago - but it did not occur to us at that time to visit the university. Have never been to the Tampa area. S2 is a golfer - not strong enough to make a college team - but for fun. He would definitely pick Florida over New York or New England states. I have hesitated on Florida due to the distance - but I feel like we keep whittling down the list so we are once again back at 7-8 so - I’m adding the 3 Florida schools to our working list for now.</p>