Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
14261

<p>FWIW, our congregation holds some of it’s High Holy days services in churches (believe it or not, even a Baptist church). I’ve seen quite a few on campus chapels that were originally churches, that are now “non-denominational,” but retain their steeple. That wouldn’t alienate my daughter unless there was a big crucifix at the front. </p>

<p>But a public university would do better holding its info sessions in an auditorium. I’ve never been at an info session held in a chapel, even at private colleges. Isn’t the chapel supposed to be for reflection and meditation, anyway?</p>

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<p>Yes, Spectrum- we could write a book.
I explained on the other thread that language differs between regions, and when we moved to the south, I had to adapt to it. In a region that was 100% Christian, people socialized in their denomination: Baptist, Methodist, and so on…The term “non denominational” is used to describe a Christian event open to all denominations of Christianity. So I can see why the person used that term when talking about the chapel at UVA. In a more diverse population, that term takes on a different meaning. I also explained that the churches tend to be the largest buildings in a community- and nobody likes to waste space and utilities by using them one day a week. So in small southern towns, churches also double as community centers for many non religious activities- music performances, music lessons, group meetings… and so on. People don’t have a problem holding a public meeting in a chapel.</p>

<p>I am very familiar with UVA and it is a public school with very deep historical roots. They are very proud of it being founded by Thomas Jefferson and the many historical buildings there- the Rotunda, the dorm rooms where Edgar Allan Poe lived, and so on. One of these buildings is the Chapel. My sense is that they want visitors to see these buildings. If you went to Paris, Notre Dame Cathedral is on the list of great buildings to see. I do think this was the intent of the tour, not to make anyone uncomfortable. </p>

<p>I think the discussion that came out of this event was enlightening, and I believe the administration is now aware that some people are not comfortable with this. I also think it is a great school for those who want to go there. I also further support the feelings of anyone who felt uncomfortable with the tour. I am very sorry people felt hurt and it is valuable to know this. No school fits everyone, and if someone is not comfortable at the school, there are many others to choose from. Likewise, some people would really be uncomfortable living in the south, and some southerners are uncomfortable in the north. </p>

<p>It’s why I rule out any school- public or private- that does not have a decent Jewish population because I don’t think my kids would be comfortable there. However, the level of comfort is different among us. What is a small Jewish population for some students is large to mine. Public state schools serve their state populations first and we know that there are more Jewish students in certain regions of the country than others. Likewise, we have regional political differences. I keep all this in mind when looking for a good fit school for my kids.</p>

<p>Yes, this is a teachable moment, but we can learn too. I understand the feeling about ignorance as an excuse, but we all make mistakes. It’s not ignorance to learn from them, and so I hope we can all move forward from here in mutual understanding.</p>

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<p>HouTXmom: I remember going to many, many services that my shul held in churches way back in its founding years. I was also mildly amused by this.</p>

<p>With regard to UVa, I think it comes back to the idea of cluelessness. I don’t believe that UVa would EVER knowingly set out to marginalize anyone. It just is one of many incidences that highlight that the majority is never quite attuned to the sensibilities of the minority(ies).</p>

<p>It wouldn’t bother me, honestly, if the school were private. I think we can all appreciate lovely architecture, etc. What’s noteworthy to me is that this is a public university.</p>

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<p>And I agree that ignorance is no excuse, but it seems that UVa understands it’s gaffe.</p>

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<p>In regards to UVA, I actually think it is a mistake for them to have “Dean J” posting on this forum. Her response to the initial post was not well worded or well thought out. She was focused on “justifying” UVA’s choice which just further ticked off the poster and made it seem as though she was criticizing the poster rather than acknowledging the issue and validating his/her concerns with the choice of a chapel for this function. If you look at the pictures of the chapel, it clearly evokes Christianity rather than anything “non-denominational.” As an FYI, we visited Charlottesville years ago and my older daughter remarked upon the predominance of blond haired people and the absence of Jews. And we are not even Jewish. What does that tell you?</p>

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<p>pamom59, That is certainly interesting that your daughter could note an “absence of Jews” just by walking around Charlottesville! According to Hillel, they estimate 1400 undergraduate Jewish students at UVa, almost 10% of the undergrad population . The Brody Center there just got a major addition put on and there is an active Chabad House,etc. Are there blonde kids walking around UVa? Of course, my blonde haired,blue eyed son was one of them. There are also many other types of people there. My son had lots of friends from many different backgrounds. The campus is certainly more diverse than you are portraying it.</p>

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<p>So funny that this whole UVA issue is being brought up right after RVM posted about Muhlenberg…I’ll explain…</p>

<p>Muhlenberg has a chapel; they use it (I think?) during orientation…and they definitely take people there on all of their tours…Muhlenberg, however, recently renovated their chapel and, specifically, now have stained glass windows representing a number of religions (which we thought was VERY cool…)…my memory of all of the explanation, etc, is not great as it was a couple of years ago so forgive me if this is not 100% accurate, but I found it ironic that the school was mentioned right before the UVA discussion…</p>

<p>as far as the UVA issue, the only thing that surprises me about any of this, is the response from anyone who represents UVA…you would think that in this day and age (I don’t particularly care that this is the “south”), one would be “enlightened” and intelligent enough to understand the implications of something like this…</p>

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<p>@sevmom seems I touched a nerve with you. I’m just reporting a true story. The observation by my daughter was not made on the campus of UVA, but in the town where we shopped, ice skated, etc. so it might be different on campus. We live in the Philly suburbs in an area with a large Jewish population. Her hs school class was about 40% Jewish. My point was that the difference in diversity of the population of Charlottesville was noticeable even to a child. People obviously have different sensitivities to this issue, and I thought it was interesting that my non Jewish child found the lack of Jews to be off putting- to the point where she said, I would not want to live here, there is not enough diversity. FWIW</p>

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<p>

     Quote from: [Commitment&lt;/a&gt; to Diversity, Office of the President, U.Va.](&lt;a href="http://www.virginia.edu/president/diversity.html%5DCommitment"&gt;http://www.virginia.edu/president/diversity.html)&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As UVA embraces diversity, hopefully, so too will UVA expand their definition of “non-denominational,” encouraging their administration and students to grow and flourish in our global society.</p>

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<p>According to the 2000 census, Charlottesville is 69.56% white and 22.22% African American. I guess I’m still not understanding how your daughter knows for sure whether someone is Jewish or not just by walking around town.</p>

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<p>Info from one of the synagogues in Charlottesville. There has been a history of sharing worship space in time of need according to the history. I’m sure Charlottesville has its’ own vibrant Jewish community -not as big as in Philadelphia where you are but I’m sure very meaningful to the local community.
[Congregation</a> Beth Israel, Charlottesville, VA - History](<a href=“http://www.cbicville.org/aboutus/history/]Congregation”>http://www.cbicville.org/aboutus/history/)</p>

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<p>@sevmom- it was an inference based on appearance-- its not like she asked everyone what their religion was! Kind of like, when you walk around Copenhagen, you see a lot of tall blond blue eyed people and assume that they are Danish. LOL</p>

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<p>Well,I’m not Jewish but I still don’t get it. Are you saying all Jewish people look alike?</p>

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<p>my goodness no! @sevmom- I am sorry if I have offended you in some way.</p>

<p>I am half Jewish myself and favor the Jewish side of my family, due to my dark hair, dark eyes and olive complexion. That is not to say that all Jews have these features- obviously not true. We all make judgements based on appearances, and have an idea whether there are people “like us” often based on superficial measures like clothes and hair color- certainly not valid in all cases, but it is a somewhat human thing to do.</p>

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<p>I was just curious about what you meant by “it was an inference based on appearance.” I’m sure you don’t mean to offend.</p>

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<p>When my father picked my mother up on their first date, my maternal grandmother grumbled to my mom that she was dating a shaygetz (derogatory yiddish term for a non-jewish male). He certainly looked the part: blonde, blue-eyed. :slight_smile: He’s still got the blue eyes; the hair, not so much :wink: </p>

<p>But pamom, I know the feeling your daughter experienced. D1 (rising college sophomore) talks about how some of her college friends regard the school as far more diverse than their high schools. To her eyes, it’s far less. It’s all a comparison to what surrounds us.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the explanation, pamom59. I was confused because you have previously said you weren’t Jewish so glad you have clarified that you are “half Jewish.” Sorry if I kept after you on this. Just trying to understand your position .Thanks again for explaining.</p>

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<p>@sevmom- though I am half-Jewish (by heritage), I was raised in a Christian faith, so am not Jewish by religion. Hope that helps to clarify my perspective!</p>

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<p>Yes, thank you,pamom59.</p>

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<p>…and continuing thoughts from post #14266, looking over at the thread where this had been discussed, it appears that Dean J still has not acknowledged the UVA chapel’s Christian imagery…poster maya states “Dean J. An acknowledgment that a large cross (outside the building…meaning a Christian place of worship, not a non-demoninational one representing all religions) and stained glass pictures of Christian prophets make the building a Christian one was all that we were asking for. An inability to acknowledge this makes us rather concerned.” So far no response from Dean J…</p>