Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
14741

<p>Since we are talking about visits now (and I am about done), here’s a list of schools I have visited with DD and DS (a big range!). If you are interested in any, rather than look through this rather long thread, feel free to PM me!</p>

<p>Here we go, in no order at all:</p>

<p>UConn, UMass, Brandeis, UDel, Binghamton, Oneonta, Hartford, Albany, Maryland CP, American, Towson, Johns Hopkins, Lehigh, Lafayette, Miami, Princeton, Boston Univ., RPI.</p>

<p>(There may be others, but I can’t remember right now!)</p>

<p>I definitely know more about some than others.</p>

14742

<p>Thank you for your welcome and advice!</p>

<p>I am originally from Saddle Brook, New Jersey, interestingly enough my in-laws live right outside of SaddleBroook (Wesley Chapel in Florida) the sign always make me think of home.</p>

<p>My dd’s GPA unweighted 3.77 /weighted 4.65 currently taking 6 AP classes</p>

<p>SAT score 1300/1920, taking again in October (keeping fingers crossed)</p>

<p>Many EC’s among them varsity tennis, Girls State Delegate, currently working on Girl Scout Gold Award, Founder and Captain of Relay for Life Team at high school</p>

<p>She is very competetive, cries if she gets a B (which she says is an F), so I am nervous for her to apply to reaches (of course, I will let her.) </p>

<p>In October we are planning to visit Clemson, University of North Carolina Asheville, Guilford, Elon and Duke. if possible we would like to see Appalachian University and University of North Carolina-Wilmington, at this time as well (but we will see how it goes)</p>

<p>I like the idea of grouping the schools.</p>

<p>I think our biggest problem is making the list of safeties and the matches for her.</p>

<p>She has a list of 5 reaches, but again that has been compiled by her without any research.
I think she just wants to say that she was accepted at those schools.</p>

<p>By the way, I will be doing this all again next year, with my ds who is a junior this year and definitely more of a B student.</p>

<p>Thank you again for your advice, it is very much appreciated.</p>

14743

<p>Just read my last post and realized that I typed:</p>

<p>I think our biggest problem is making the list of safeties and the matches for her.
I definitely meant to say “with” her. It is just hard to get her to show much interest in this process and I am not sure why.</p>

14744

<p>Hello everyone. New poster to this thread. Saddlebrook, feel free to PM me about Eckerd College. My daughter graduated this May with a degree in Marine Biology. May I suggest if law school or government policy is in her future, consider a major in Environmental Studies and business. A marine biology major in any college or university is very rigorous, only about 1/3 to 1/4 of all marine bio majors actually end up graduating with that degree. It would not be necessary for her to have that background if she is interested in law or policy management. Law schools look at GPA and LSAT scores. Eckerd has a wonderful Rabbi on campus, an active Hillel organization and students participated in Birthright this summer. Best of luck to your daughter, (and to mom), in her college search.</p>

14745

<p>Welcome SaddleBrook. You will find lots of people here very willing to help!</p>

<p>Linymom - thinking of Hartford on my S’s list. Have not visited. Anything you can share?
Oh and for those who recall our “BU ED” thing - I don’t think he’ll be doing it. I think S was going through a phase where he was getting burned out, and hoping to speed up this process. Still loves BU, but not sure he’s ready to commit. Just thought I’d give you updated.</p>

14746

<p>First Shana Tova to all of you. I’ve been stopping by periodically but been away a bunch over the past few weeks. All the best to that class of 13 and to our crop of new freshmen.</p>

<p>Saddlebrook: As was touched upon by a prior poster a concern for a pre-law program can be scratched from the list. I have read that law schools are indifferent to any other major but pre-law and that pre-law is discouraged for students applying to law school.</p>

<p>As for cutting the list, considering what you are saying about the little time that your daughter wants to spend researching the schools you can be sure that once she sees what goes into completing applications she will no doubt cut her list on her own! The statement about matzoh did amuse me. That deficit at any school can be remedied by a care package but the statement does indicate that she has some affinity to Jewish life. My experience has been that a Hillel presence is more important in a school with a small Jewish percentage then a larger one, just because there is less opportunity to find a community without the organization. Conversely I can’t think of any schools that have a large Jewish community that don’t have a Hillel but there are those with a small Jewish percentage that do not have one. If they also don’t have any other Jewish organization or Jewish studies then you might eliminate schools on that point.</p>

<p>As usual great advice from RVM regarding catagories. One strategy that my older son used, but that back fired a bit, but still seems sound was that he had a safety school and then compared all other schools to that one. The question was is this school better than your safety and why. Several schools were eliminated with ths criteria. </p>

<p>One thing that I would stress is that if she can come up with solid criteria about what she is looking for, perhaps using a checklist then you may be able to find a few good schools to apply to without actually visiting. I say this because my older S never visited the school he chose until after he was accepted and it has been an amazing fit for him.</p>

14747

<p>Welcome Saddlebrook. We love giving advice on this thread. I agree with Spectrum that there’s no advantage to a pre-law major for law school applicants. You can major in anything, but GPA is important. </p>

<p>I have two suggestions that might help narrow down your list. We eliminated schools that were less than 5% Jewish. We wanted our D’s to attend schools where they would meet other Jewish students even in they didn’t choose to attend services or Hillel events. My D2 only goes to Hillel on holidays, but she has made a lot of Jewish friends and enjoys being around other students who celebrate the same holidays.</p>

<p>You might also want to consider travel time. Once a school is more than a few hours from home, proximity to transportation becomes an issue. We focused on schools where it would be possible to come home for a weekend. My D has to fly, but it’s still only about 3-4 hours door to door each trip. </p>

<p>The first school I thought of when you mentioned the type of school your D has liked was Elon. I’m glad that you’re going to visit.</p>

14748

<p>From our “live and learn” department:
Last weekend I went into the UPS store to ship some honey cakes to my daughter for Rosh HaShana (<30 miles away). It cost me $30. They led me to believe there were no other options that would get the package there by Monday, or even Tuesday. </p>

<p>Today I went into the post office with a cinnamon babka for breaking fast next Wednesday. Cost me $6 to send. I came up to the window with an $11 flat rate priority mail box and the clerk wouldn’t let me use it. She said it was a waste of money for a lightweight item being shipped nearby. Found me a box, wrapped my babka up and charged me just over $6.</p>

<p>Clearly, I was a fool for believing the woman who owns the UPS store. Maybe all of you already knew this, but if you’re new to the care package biz, like me, bear this in mind. </p>

<p>(I suspect my daughter can buy a babka at the Whole Foods <1 mile from her dorm, but I think she’ll like having one arrive in the mail.)</p>

14749

<p>Hi Deskpotato, I have found it to be touch and go with making the choice about where to go to send packages and still don’t have it figured out. I have never sent a package UPS if I have wanted to rush the shipping. When I can get away with a small flat rate box at the post office that always seems to be the best deal. Otherwise it is a judgement call. There have been times i have checked the respective websites for shipping rates. When mailing to my S1’s school (accross country) it turns out that the mailroom address is considered a business by UPS and so the rates are lower than residential rates. At times this has worked out less expensive than the post office but only without accelerated shipping!</p>

14750

<p>Hi Deskpotato:</p>

<p>Don’t get me started re: UPS. My H had a very large, ackward item that needed wrapping and packaging. UPS charged us waaay over the necessary limit. Turns out they used a double box just enough to go over the limits for the post office. He paid for the double box, but ended up repackaging it to meet the post office limits. What could have been a very inexpensive packaging ended up costing twice as much. That happened recently only once, but we learned not to use UPS again. I don’t appreciate when businesses knowingly take advantage of you.</p>

<p>Linymom or anyone: </p>

<p>Any new or updated info. re: Binghamton would be greatly appreciated! (esp. in regard to engineering, thanks!)</p>

14751

<p>Shana Tovah everyone!</p>

<p>Does anyone know about UDelaware not accepting Latin as a language? If they don’t, do they automatically not admit students who only took Latin in high school?</p>

14752

<p>I looked at their admissions website and it does not say anything about Latin. They also have an AP credit chart and give credit for AP Latin, so I would think they accept it. I don’t know for certain. Did you see it somewhere on their website?</p>

14753

<p>I haven’t been on this thread for a long time. My daughter, a dual US/Canadian citizen, chose only to apply in Canada and only applied to two schools there (she was told by 6 of 7 that she would get in since they do it by the numbers and at the 7th, it was more holistic). ShawD chose the one because the Jewish population at the other, which was in many ways a terrific school for her, was extremely small. But, she was studying biology and decided that she’d rather be more applied and tried to switch to nursing in her second week of school (drop/add was still open) but she was told, “You were admitted into the Faculty of Science and not the Faculty of Nursing, so you’ll have to reapply as a first year student” and incidentally, “we will not be giving you credit for your calculus, chemistry or biology classes, only psychology”). So, she decided to to transfer for the following year and apply to a number of schools. During the semester, she became very active in Aish Hatorah – she didn’t like Hillel as much but made lots of Jewish friends. </p>

<p>Well, one of the schools she was going to apply to offered to admit her for the winter semester to a BSN/MSN (nurse practitioner) program. And, it is here in Boston. Surprisingly, the Hillel is not especially active, so she went to Harvard’s Hillel a couple of times. She also decided after the first semester that she didn’t want to live in the dorms (which are in fact very expensive) and started looking for a room in an apartment for this year. They seemed expensive and also hard to find (for undergrads) and it seemed cheaper to buy a condo than rent for another four years. So, we found a nice place in Brookline and took in two of her friends as roommates. One is the head of Hillel and observes kashrut. I’m the only one on my side of the family who doesn’t so ShawD was calling my mother to ask about how to kasher dishes and pots. Since she’s a vegetarian (eats fish and shellfish too) and the third roomie, while Catholic, is a complete vegetarian, they can keep kosher as long as ShawD leaves the fish/shellfish at the restaurant. So, I have a daughter now keeping kosher. And, she’s going to be on the board of Hillel, apparently.</p>

<p>Now, she’s looking for a synagogue to join. </p>

<p>My son on, the other hand, will graduate from his small LAC this May and will have no idea where his college’s Hillel meets.</p>

14754

<p>Chocchip: I have no new info on Binghamton. It is off DS’ list after his visit (as a reminder, DD’s friend gave us some inside scoop–about hiding in classes, friends failing calculus, plus DS just wasn’t feeling it).</p>

<p>Champs: Re: Hartford. Nice campus, borders sketchy part of Hartford and gorgeous upscale West Hartford. Generous with merit money. High Jewish population (25-30%?). I would call it a safety school for a B student. DD visited (nice tour by some Hillel students because there was no regular admissions tour that day), but didn’t apply.</p>

<p>RE: UPS and USPS. I never use USPS to ship anything if I actually want it to arrive – as per the postal workers in my p.o. Sent priority packages for DD’s b-day last year – took three weeks. Same problem with USPS shipment for work. So I use UPS always for DD. Arrives the next day. Way more reliable.</p>

14755

<p>Shawbridege,</p>

<p>Just want to say nice to have you back. Glad daughter is doing well in Boston.</p>

14756

<p>Shawbridge- I too have older kids who have varied in their levels of participation in Hillel, and on some campuses, Chabad is more active. I agree with Spectrum though, that it is the presence of an active Jewish community on campus that is important, regardless of how involved our kids are with it.
Saddlebrook, I am familiar with many of the schools on your daughter’s list and I can speak as someone who raised kids who are the “only ones” in a small community in this region and many of their peers attended some of these schools. Despite the fact that they are academically good, my kids don’t want to attend them. They are tired of being the only Jews in their area and want a different environment where they are not alone.
My kids have been happy. They have great friends, great neighbors, and teachers and your D could have many of her social and academic needs met there. However, many of their peers do not understand our background. We are constantly having to answer questions, explain ourselves. In addition, much of southern social life is constructed around the churches. People socialize there in youth groups and clubs. We have no problem attending a wedding or ceremony for people we care about in a church, but have no desire to worship, join, or be part of the religious community. It has made us feel different and left out. So no matter how excellent a school may be, if it is more of the same of this, my kids will not be happy.
My kids don’t want to socialize with only Jews. They have been room mates/hall mates with kids of every religion, race, and sexual orientation. They love diversity because they not only don’t have to be the only one, they get to be part of a mix. They look for schools with Hillels so they can have the best of both worlds- a place to be Jewish, blend, and also to be with people who are different from them.
Many of the schools on your list, with the exception of Elon and Duke (maybe Asheville and App, I don’t know- the Boone community has just built a new temple and is involved with ASU- but beside the students, Boone is largely a retirement community so check into this closely) have very small Jewish populations. A private school like Elon can promote religious diversity, and it has. A state school can not promote any religion.
Before I moved to this area, I did not see any problems, after all, like your D, we are open minded and get along with a lot of people. But being the “only one” has not been an easy road. Your D may not realize how that feels. I encourage her to make the presence of an active Jewish community a component of her college search, even if she never goes. It may help her narrow down the list.
One of the schools that seemed interesting to us is New College- right in you backyard with the academics your D is looking at. Would she consider it? Sometimes the grass is not greener in another state. I tell my kids this too. There are great schools in this region with Jewish populations: Elon, Duke, UNC-CH, College of Charleston to mention a few, and some that are expanding like Davidson and Wake.</p>

14757

<p>New College was the first school I took ShawD to visit as it was similar to her HS and she would surely get in. It’s charming in its own way, but a little small. I think the kids have to be self-motivated and socially it, like many other schools, has a high percentage of girls. One girl said that the guys there were not the kind of guys who got lots of female attention in HS and now felt like they were in heaven. If a kid is self-motivated, it could be a very nice place.</p>

<p>SocalDad, ShawD loves her nursing classes. She’s really happy and managed to make friends, even though she transferred in mid-year. The only thing she’s missing is guys. But, she’s taking care of that in her own way. She gets a lot of male attention without doing anything, so by saying she will only go out with very good-looking Jewish guys, she takes a lot of pressure off. Interestingly, when she found one such guy at Harvard who appeared to be expressing interest, she backpedaled. She did room with 5 guys in a frat this summer, so knows a lot more males and is feeling a lot more comfortable.</p>

14758

<p>Re participation in Hillel, it definitely is hard to “encourage” some kids to do this. My kids went to a day school for most of their lives and kind of “had their fill” by the time they reached high school. When they switched to public school, the majority of their friends were not Jewish, and they had no interest in joining any specifically Jewish groups. Like Pennylane’s kids, they didn’t want to socialize with only Jews. I understand that, but I can only hope that when they are away from home, they will appreciate having a Jewish connection like Hillel. Even if they don’t want to join Hillel per se, schools that have strong Jewish populations are very important - especially during the High Holidays since many schools continue to hold classes, but will just “exempt” students from attendance on the necessary days. </p>

<p>@Pennylane - I didn’t see that info about Latin on Delaware’s website, just heard a rumor. I think it would be a possible contender for my younger one (my B student), but with Latin as the only language taken, I was just concerned. I will hopefully visit this Fall, so I will ask during the tour…</p>

14759

<p>Yes, the kids will decide about their involvement, but I think the presence of a Hillel makes a difference. The kids know it is there and they know they are not alone.
Since we have felt “left out” of the social structure sometimes, I would not want to put my kids into that situation in college. We have some great schools in our region, but my kids have had enough of being the only Jews in their school.
@Maryversity- please post what you learn about Latin as it would be important to this thread- thanks.</p>

14760

<p>Welcome ECmotherx2 and Saddlebrook!</p>

<p>Saddlebrook, I feel your pain! My DD, a HS senior, is also not interested in the college planning/selection process. This is not unusual. DD alternates between downright disagreeable & stubborn, and resistant but somewhat malleable. I choose my moments wisely. I have bribed, threatened, provided positive reinforcement, written her short motivating notes, had her older cousins/friends add their positive 2 cents, texted her deadlines, and even not broached the subject for months. It’s been a long and stressful road (and selfishly, I feel robbed of the “thrill of this sharing adventure”). Due to the reality that college is a huge investment not to be taken lightly, and to the tick-tock of the clock, I decided to do all the research myself, with DD’s input whenever possible. It was not terribly difficult to narrow down the college list once we had DD’s stats (gpa & SAT) in hand & our criteria was established: academic strength of college; high grad & retention rates; high outcome rates; small-medium student population & low student to faculty ratio/small class size; a strong Jewish organization on campus; majors, courses & EC’s of interest offered; and specific accreditations in her areas of interest. For us, location of school became less important over time, as other “fit” factors (such as engaging professors and a student-centered approach) became more important. I discarded schools which were too expensive and at which DD would not realistically warrant any merit aid. I then provided my DD & DH with a detailed spreadsheet of 8 colleges (2 safeties, 4 matches and 2 reaches). I put DD on the mailing list of all 8 colleges - No, she does not view the mailed literature. I expressed the need for DD to email the Admssions Reps, attend college fairs in order to reach out to Reps, and visit campuses, and made sure she did. Motivating DD to write the essays has been the hardest part (why does each college require so many? It’s torture!), so give your DD plenty of time for that (our HS does not work on college essays until November, which is too late for ED & EA apps).
The other day I told DD that one day she’ll thank me (yeah, me being selfish again) and she agreed, with a semi smile…she’s scared, overwhelmed and intimidated, requiring a swift and frequent, yet supportive, kick in the pants!
You may also want to consider using a college planning service for all (search, financial, application) or part (such as essay writing only) of this grueling process.
I wish you good luck!!!</p>