<p>Rodney - I’m really not sure what to think about the Naviance data on Elon. The only conclusion I have is that it is harder to predict admission results at Elon than at some of the other schools we are considering. We would not be requesting need-based FA at Elon - so I guess that would help. </p>
<p>boysx3 - I agree that Allegheny is a good choice for a “B” Jewish student. The main reason I don’t have it on S2’s list is that they do not offer a business major. Also, we have a cousin who graduated from Allegheny about 7 years ago. He had a good - but not great experience there. He felt that a lot of the students were from the immediate area - western PA and Ohio - had gone to hs together, etc. He seemed to have difficulty finding his niche the first 2 years - although I think things improved once he declared his major and bonded with that group of students.</p>
<p>RM, sound slike York has done a good job of connecting with your GC.</p>
<p>CH, there is an NJ 4% cap on tuition increases–but they raised other costs to achieve a total increase of over 5%. This is a typical acadmic game–keep tuition misleadingly low, but have lots of “fees” for things you do not find out about until too late.</p>
<p>Rodney/RM, some schools will have a hard line on SAT/ACT scores because they cut across different HS’s and some because it boosts their USNWR, etc selectivity rankings.</p>
<p>I hate to sound so cynical, but it is a rare school which is immune from the desire to rise in the rankings, or which aspires to be a great school for B students rather than an ok school for A students. A significant number of the Colles That Change Lives schools I looked at had used that ongoing publicity to move away from B/B+ students who needed their academic lives changed to A/A- students who needed to change nothing but did not quite get into Top 50 schools.</p>
<p>Elon looks like around $35k a year OOS or $140k for 4 years unless you get good scholarships. Sounds pricey. I appreciate Rockville Mom’s info. about York and will look into that school.</p>
<p>Just want to add that our local suburban high schoool had many seniors attending in state universities. I think the economic down turn has impacted savings. Perhaps the reason so many are applying to these smaller private universities is with the hope of getting grants and/or scholarships. If they don’t get adequate aid, and do not want hefty student loans, then many just go in state.</p>
<p>I honestly can’t justify OOS tuition or pricey private schools unless there is a particular program that justifies the extra cost.</p>
<p>Here’s an example of exactly what Yabeyabe was talking about:</p>
<p>"Presidential Academic Scholarship </p>
<p>$26,000 Scholarship over four years - $6,500 awarded annually as a full-time student living on campus
$18,000 Scholarship over four years - $4,500 awarded annually as a full-time student commuting from home</p>
<p>Scholarship award is for eight full-time semesters, excluding summers</p>
<pre><code>* Eligible students are first-time, full-time students who graduated in the upper two-fifths of their high school class and have an SAT score of 1250 (Critical Reading and Math) or higher or a composite ACT score of 28 (optional writing test required) or higher."
</code></pre>
<p>So - a student who fits this description could A) go to Elon for $140,000 or B) go to York for about $68,000. Prestige vs. less prestigious school with lower price tag AND merit money.</p>
<p>^^if it were only that easy; given that many of us on this thread are all about “fit”, I would hesitate to make that type of comparison prior to a visit…</p>
<p>Now, if there is a “fit” in both places, that’s a whole different ball game…</p>
<p>I’ll stick with my comparison of Muhlenberg: $200,000 v Elon: $140,000 at this point…not sure there is going to be a lower cost school that is also a “fit” but that remains to be seen…given that we are not eligible for either FA or merit</p>
<p>Oh I agree completely - fit is the most critical element. I was just being hypothetical - if both were a good fit for your child - what would win out? Our GC said regarding York that some kids love it and some kids hate it - which was really not all that helpful. </p>
<p>I think that with Muhlenberg vs. Elon - they are at the same level of “prestige” - not sure really why Muhlenberg costs so much more. I wanted to illustrate an example of what yabeyabe recommends - going for the less prestigious school with the lower price tag and merit money.</p>
<p>“going for the less prestigious school with the lower price tag and merit money.”…seems to make alot of sense as long as the “fit” is there (and you are not giving up some special program)…</p>
<p>my husband and I were just having this conversation at dinner; in our opinion, especially if a student is pre-med, pre-dental…he/she should go where the $$ makes the most sense (as long as the “fit” is there)…and get a great GPA for admissions to grad school…</p>
<p>DH is in NC this week playing golf with his buddies - his fantasy is that with S1 already at Wake - S2 goes to Elon - and we move down to NC so he can play golf 24/7! And you wonder why we are not looking at schools in NY!</p>
<p>On a more serious note - the GPA point is so valid - go to a less expensive/less prestigious school - graduate with honors - with a high GPA - and without debt - it does make sense.</p>
<p>Rodney, I would not give up on merit $ being a possibility for your D, unless you were referring to Elon and Muhlenberg and know the track record of similar kids.</p>
<p>One other plus to dropping down a notch to get merit $–a lot of kids in this category have gone to intense HS’s where they seldom felt smart. Imagine the self-esteem boost of a nice scholarship and feeling like one of the brighter kids in their college classes.</p>
<p>As for “fit”, I hope you and your kids have the same ideas of “fit.” For boys, that often involves the likelihood of ESPN coming to campus; a rep for good parties; and a high female to male ratio. And my idea of fit was more focused on significant numbers of Jewish kids than my son’s was.</p>
<p>And you may find that there are schools where your child is offered a good merit scholarship because they will add diversity–will that change your mind, assuming your child likes the school?</p>
<p>Re York and love/hate, I think that is often the case at small schools, especially rural ones. Some kids will feel it is HS, part 2; or become jealous of stories from their friends who go to D.C. clubs every weekend or watch a top 10 football team play.</p>
<p>If you are eooking at a rural school, it is important to ask about not only on campus weekend activities, but off campus activities–some schools charter frequent bus trips to cities, canoe groups or ski trips.</p>
<p>“not sure really why Muhlenberg costs so much more”. - </p>
<p>It’s really not that Muhlenberg costs so much more, it’s that Elon is committed to “providing a tuition rate that is $10,000 – $15,000 below other private universities and within range of non-resident tuition rates at flagship state universities”. </p>
<p>Instead of charging more and offering some kids what would seem like more financial aid, they keep tuition purposefully reasonably low for everyone. It was in their last 10 year plan and it’s in their new 10 year plan. It’s also why you will often mistakenly hear X-School gave me $3000 more financial aid than Elon, they must want me more…</p>
<p>I have noticed that quite a few private schools in NC are less expensive than private schools in other states. I wonder if this has to do with the “bargain” rates for NC public Us. Not all private schools in NC are in the price range as Elon. Davidson and Duke, for example, costs quite bit more, but others like Guilford, High Point, Queens, Meredith, Belmont Abbey, Peace, and Catawba are all within a lower price point.</p>
<p>For those interested in exploring private schools in NC, here is a convenient list to refer to:</p>
<p>Guilford: I loved that school when we visited its open house. It’s a Quaker school and seemed really laid back, service-oriented, and eager for students who wanted/needed a community feeling. I think it would be wonderful for a B student who needs a nuturing, less competitive environment and it would be a mensch’s heaven because of its dedication to helping others. I don’t know if it has a business major (probably not) and it’s campus is not real flashy but it truely seemed like a college with a big heart. Greensboro has a large and active Jewish community included a very well respected Jewish boarding (prep) high school.</p>
<p>RVM: When you visit CofC next spring, make sure your husband gets to play golf one of the sixtybillion golf courses in the area!</p>
<p>Here is the list of schools from the AACSB International site of schools in NC with AACSB accreditation. You would have to look at each school to see which majors are offered:</p>
<p>Appalachian State University (North Carolina)<br>
Duke University (North Carolina)<br>
East Carolina University (North Carolina)<br>
Elon University (North Carolina)<br>
Fayetteville State University (North Carolina)<br>
Meredith College (North Carolina)<br>
North Carolina A&T State University (North Carolina)<br>
North Carolina Central University (North Carolina)<br>
North Carolina State University (North Carolina)<br>
Queens University of Charlotte (North Carolina)<br>
The University of North Carolina at Asheville (North Carolina)<br>
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (North Carolina)<br>
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte (North Carolina)<br>
The University of North Carolina at Greensboro (North Carolina)<br>
University of North Carolina Wilmington (North Carolina)<br>
Wake Forest University (North Carolina)<br>
Western Carolina University (North Carolina)<br>
Winston-Salem State University (North Carolina)</p>
<p>I guess that if you are looking for a private school in NC that offers a business program with AACSB accreditation there are just a few schools to choose from. There seem to be more public U choices.</p>
<p>Re URI, it is near the beach and attracts a lot of NJ kids (as does UMass). Both have a rep for lots of parties. URI has easy Amtrak access.</p>
<p>RE NC schools, I suspect their land and labor costs are cheaper, plus their heating bills. The quote from the ELon FA philosophy is very different from a quote I remember from Muhlenberg, in which they said very candidly that they use FA as a recruiting tool for top students.</p>
<p>Sadly, the college FA game is often very similar to buying a car–does sticker price mean anything? Do you believe the dealer who says they offer a “no haggle” price?, etc</p>
<p>I think that labor costs are less in some rural locations in other states, yet the COA at some of these schools are quite high. Some may be in snow country, but one can argue that the schools are running A/C longer in NC than they would be in colder regions. This is what leads me to think that the cost of NC public universities might have kept prices lower in NC. The same can be said for FLA, although I have not looked too closely. For example, Univ. of Tampa is priced below 35,000 and their state schools are less costly as well. There are schools that are also expensive in FLA. For example, the COA at Rollins is over 50,000.</p>
<p>On the FA issue - I like Elon’s pricing strategy. I’d rather know the price ahead of time and be willing to pay it - than have to apply for FA every year and be on pins and needles waiting to see how much we get. (We already do that with Wake Forest and while I appreciate their generosity - I could live very easily without the paperwork and waiting game every year). That being said, we still have Muhlenberg on maybe Gettysburg on the list. </p>
<p>Cherryhill - I did consider Rhode Island - but he really wants to head south more than north. I was able to keep PA on the list - but otherwise - he’s heading to Virginia or the Carolinas pretty much.</p>
<p>stillnadine - from what I have heard recently - I have been “dumped” from the C of C trip. DH and S2 seem to be planning a spring break trip without me! I envision a lot of golf besides the college visit.</p>
<p>RM, Charleston is a very pretty city to tour while the boys bond/golf, so fight to get back on the trip!</p>
<p>Re rural schools with high COA, I think it goes back to my cars analogy–only part of the price difference between a Camry and a Lexus can be explained by cost–the majority is the willingness of people to pay that price. Prestigious rural schools can pick their price. Schools which aim heavily at affluent students (Rollins) or foreign students find a lot of applicants unconcerned re cost. </p>
<p>I think it would be interesting to see a study of NEM’s logical theory that states with low cost public colleges tend to have low cost privates, regardless of local costs.</p>
<p>RM, re your husband thinking of relocating the family to NC for golf, I worked at a company where 2 divisional CEOs tried to do just that.</p>
<p>Question about York - I looked at the York info. again after the postings here about it. A lot of things look very good about the school. However, I did notice that they have a very small Jewish population. Looks like about 100 kids. When I went to the Hillel site for York, it was a one page site. That’s it. No mention of programs that they have had or will be having. I guess my question is, is this small Jewish population a vibrant one? At first blush, it doesn’t look like it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, one school I am starting to get excited about as a safety for my D, is Miami U of Ohio. About 15,000 students, which is not bad for a public school. About 1,000 Jewish students. I would like a little higher than 7%, but not bad numbers. It also seems like they give merit money to OOS students. From what I have read, a beautiful campus.
Does anyone have any information on Maimi U of Ohio in Oxford?</p>
<p>A very enthusiastic Campusvibe report was recently posted on Miami/Oh. At that size, the comparables would appear to be Towson, Binghamton and JMU. Miami has strong basketball and football traditions, unlike those 3, if that helps.</p>
<p>I think you will find 7% is a relatively high percentage outside of top 50 schools and certain geographic areas. And, if there are 1000, they certainly have enough for a big Hillel. Arguably, you are better off with the 7% of 15000 than 21% of 2000, assuming a 4000 freshman class is right for your child.</p>