<p>mdmom - I agree with you on the Jewish population at York - which is about 100 - so fairly small. To me - that would be one of the biggest drawbacks of this school - but I do like everything else I have read about it - so keeping an open mind until we have a chance to visit.</p>
<p>Miami of Ohio is a great option for a Jewish student. It doesn’t work for us in terms of location/climate - but if it were in Virginia or the Carolinas - it would be on our list!</p>
<p>^Northeastmom
“I have noticed that quite a few private schools in NC are less expensive than private schools in other states. I wonder if this has to do with the “bargain” rates for NC public Us. Not all private schools in NC are in the price range as Elon.
Davidson and Duke, for example, costs quite bit more, but others like Guilford, High Point, Queens, Meredith, Belmont Abbey, Peace, and Catawba are all within a lower price point”.</p>
<p>Your correct that the people of NC put a lot of their tax money into their public universities to keep tuition down, and thats great. Because state schools require 80% of the students be from in-state I think we get our moneys worth.</p>
<p>Like anything I’m sure that price plays a part, but mostly I think it’s about fit and what school is likely to help you accomplish what you want from life. </p>
<p>Duke, Davidson, Elon, and Wake are all great schools but the rest that you mentioned (with the possible exception of some of Guilford’s programs) are not of the same unique level. And so value becomes relative.</p>
<p>ncmentor, I absolutely agree that Duke, Davidson, Elon and Wake are not at the same level. If you look at a school at the approx. level of the other schools that I listed and compare them to other schools that are also not in the same league as Duke or Davidson, they cost more. For example, look at the pricetag of Drew in NJ. COA is over 52,000. Hartwick in NY is about 46,000. I don’t want to insult anyone, but I don’t see those schools as superior to some of the other private schools that I listed in NC. I am not picking on Hartwick or Drew. They just happen to be 2 small schools in the NE that quickly came to mind. There are plenty of other examples.</p>
<p>“Instead of charging more and offering some kids what would seem like more financial aid, they keep tuition purposefully reasonably low for everyone. It was in their last 10 year plan and it’s in their new 10 year plan. It’s also why you will often mistakenly hear X-School gave me $3000 more financial aid than Elon, they must want me more…” </p>
<p>sorry, don’t know how to quote…does this quote refer to only need-based aid or merit as well? If someone applies ED, at Elon or in general, does that reduce the opportunity for merit aid? Not sure that this thread is the right place to ask the question but the comment about Elon has me thinking…</p>
<p>^ college1 </p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I think Elon does a good job with all kinds of financial aid. What this refers to is that Elon has a commitment to keeping their overall tuition as reasonably low as practical. As was pointed out earlier by others, many private schools that may have much less to offer still cost the same or more (sometimes much more) than Elon. </p>
<hr>
<p>“If someone applies ED, at Elon or in general, does that reduce the opportunity for merit aid”?</p>
<p>I don’t think so, from what I’ve seen, Elon’s merit aid and competition for fellowship programs are pretty straight forward. BUT anyone who has spent any time on CC will hopefully tell you Not To Apply ED to any school that you may not be able to afford. </p>
<p>Lots of students apply EA and I think that’s always a smart move if you know you will attend the school if accepted but need to inspect the FA package before withdrawing any other applications. (Thats why people should have financial safety schools no mater what schools they hope to attend)…</p>
<p>“If someone applies ED, at Elon or in general, does that reduce the opportunity for merit aid”?
Yes! Colleges use merit aid to recruit students that might otherwise choose another college. If a student has already committed to a college, that college has no incentive to give merit aid.
Some admissions officers have said this outright at information sessions that I have attended.</p>
<p>levirm - I agree with what you wrote for the most part - certainly makes sense. The only college that I am aware of that disputes this notion is Muhlenberg. I have read on their website and I believe people have posted anecdotally as well that Muhlenberg does not want to “punish” the students who most want to attend.</p>
<p>Back to Elon for a moment - they give Presidential Scholarships to the top accepted students. Are you saying that no ED applicants receive this scholarship? Here’s the info from the website - I don’t see it ruling out ED students.</p>
<p>“Presidential Scholarships of up to $4,500 annually are awarded to approximately the top one-fourth of entering freshmen each year. The awards are based on high school course selection, class rank, grades and SAT/ACT scores. No separate application is needed. Scholarships are automatically awarded to students who meet the necessary criteria when the completed admissions application is reviewed. Presidential Scholarships are renewable each year pending acceptable academic performance.”</p>
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<p>Our friends’ Jewish D just finished her freshman year at Miami. While she is very happy there, she has encountered a pretty surprising amount of ignorance about Jews and Judaism, including being asked in all seriousness if Jews “worshipped pigs”. We live in a small town in Ohio so my kids have had similar experiences growing up - there is nothing wrong with having the opportunity to educate others who are curious about Judaism, but it can get lonely at times.</p>
<p>I keep coming back to the quote from the Muhlenberg student that I posted way back at the beginning of this thread who said “she didn’t want to be ‘That Weird Girl Who Goes to Services on Friday Nights’.” I think Miami is one of those places where a Jewish student might be that kid. Obviously that is not a deal-breaker for many, but worthy of consideration, IMHO.</p>
<p>^^interesting example of a place where it looks like numbers don’t tell the whole story…one would think that a mass of 1,000 would signify a different type of enviornment for a Jewish kid…sounds a little like the stories we have heard at JMU (another school with a decent # of Jewish students)…</p>
<p>another good reason for our students to actually speak and meet with Jewish kids on these campuses during visits; ask these questions…</p>
<p>RE ED and merit aid, that varies form school to school. All schools love ED applications, none more than B student schools–as you saw from Rockville’s post, usually fewer than 1/3 of their accepted RD applicants attend. Accordingly, a reputation for shafting ED kids on merit aid will hurt them badly.
Susquehanna was far more generous to us with merit ED than I expected, but I have also heard rumors of some schools beiong miserly. As some schools are significantly less selective ED, you can imagine some of those ED kids-- who not get accepted RD–receive no merit aid ED and tell others the school was cheap with ED merit aid.</p>
<p>PRJ - Wow! Thanks for the information. I (and I think D) can deal with “ignorance”, if it’s anti-semitism, that’s another story. Miami U does seem to have an active Hillel as well as a Jewish sorority and fraternity. With a school that large, it would seem that you can have plenty of people to choose your friends from and you may just have to look a little harder!</p>
<p>We would most certainly visit Hillel and speak to Jewish students if she considers the school. Actually, we are planning that for every college we visit.</p>
<p>Re the Miami story, we have to understand that most schools will have kids who have never met a Jew before and that college kids tease each other in cruder ways than adults. I think Rodney is right in stressing the importance of talking to a sampling of Jewish kids on campus.</p>
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<p>agree completely. and my anecdote comes from the mother - for all I know, her D was completely unfazed by the comment. nothing the mother related to me sounded like anti-Semitism, just a lack of exposure and knowledge. I also agree that at a school the size of Miami, this young woman could find Jewish friends and/or friends familiar with Judaism, if that was important to her. I put the story out there simply to stress the importance of visiting and talking to Jewish students to get a sense of what “a comfortable place for Jews” means for each individual prospective student.</p>
<p>Wow, PRJ. That is both funny and a bit scary. </p>
<p>I have to admit that I’ve been in circumstances over the years where I’ve inadvertently had to be an ambassador of Judaism. In one setting with evalangelicals who had never met a Jew and were really curious about our customs. They didn’t try to convert me. Same with Mormons. I did a Mormon friend a favor and agreed to give a keynote speech/presentation to the first gathering of a group of Mormon entrepreneurs and business people who were devoting energy and money to a particular Mormon cause. It was in Hawaii and I normally wouldn’t go that far for a one-day gig without charging an extremely large sum of money, but this was for a charitable group but my friend paid me an a fee I would charge for a charity that wasn’t mine (I give my time to those for free) and for a vacation in Hawaii, but even smarter he asked my wife to speak (brilliant move on his part because that was the clincher). As a result, we spent three days with a 100% Mormon group. Incredibly nice people (so nice you wish they’d say something mean but they just don’t), very impressive organization. They did subtly try to convert my wife, although she was trying to learn what Mormonism was about as she knew nothing about it and they may have taken it as a signal of a different kind of interest. But, overall, they were also very respectful about Judaism and curious about Jews. I don’t know that I would have found it easy to do that at age 18.</p>
<p>I’ve also been in places with implicit and explicit anti-Semitism and wouldn’t want my kids to go to college in such environments. As an elementary school student, kids wanted to fight me because I was Jewish. My parents tried to buy a house in a town and originally couldn’t because realtors didn’t show houses to Jews (so I was in the town with the fighting kids) and several years later bought a house in the nicer town directly from a developer, where I was one of 3 Jews in a graduating class of 400. Even at college, where there were probably 15% Jews, the institution reeked of a vaguely anti-Semitic social aristocracy. Fortunately, all that has changed in both towns and the university (which subsequently had a Jewish president). But, when I travel around the world, I’ve had people tell me in certain countries that they wouldn’t admit to being Jewish.</p>
<p>Interesting anecdote on Miami. I admit that surprises me - but then - when I attended Lafayette in the 80’s - my roommate was from the Princeton, NJ area (not exactly Hicktown USA) and had never met a Jew before - at least not knowingly - but we did get along just fine.</p>
<p>One of the interesting things about this topic is that my kids do not “look” Jewish - they have light hair and blue eyes courtesy of DH - and we have a very neutral surname - courtesy of DH’s father who changed it in the 1930s. So, someone could easily meet my kids and never guess their religious/cultural background unless the topic came up - which leads me to believe that kids who think they have never met a Jewish kid before have done so, but just don’t know it.</p>
<p>Ok - here’s a school I know nothing about. At first glance - it has safety school potential. Has the sports that S2 wants, has all the majors, reasonable cost, within driving range and he should easily be accepted. Here’s the link for Hilel:</p>
<p>[Welcome[/url</a>]</p>
<p>The Hillel seems to have regular Friday night dinners, Sunday brunches, etc. Is this a crazy idea? Does anyone know about West Virginia?</p>
<p>Found another article from a few years ago about Chabad at WVU. Estimates of Jewish students run from 800 and up. It’s probably too big and too much of a party school - but I was surprised to see there is some Jewish life in West Virgina.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/570624/jewish/Coal-Country-Gets-a-Chabad-House.htm[/url]”>http://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/570624/jewish/Coal-Country-Gets-a-Chabad-House.htm](<a href=“http://www.wvu.edu/~wvuhillel/WVU_Hillel/Welcome.html]Welcome[/url”>http://www.wvu.edu/~wvuhillel/WVU_Hillel/Welcome.html)</a></p>
<p>^ Levrim</p>
<p>I’m aware that most schools view merit aid as you described - “to recruit students that might otherwise choose another college. (and that) If a student has already committed to a college, that college has no incentive to give merit aid.” </p>
<p>And maybe some of that is true at Elon too but I have not seen a lot of that (actually I haven’t seen any of it but I don’t have “inside” information, I just know a fair amount of students who have considered or attended Elon). To the best of my knowledge Elon applicants who are accepted ED receive as many Presidential Scholarships, Fellowships, and other specialized scholarships as other accepted students with similar qualifications. </p>
<p>It’s harder to judge the need based aid / ED interaction because (as I would hope) students who require need based aid should not apply ED, because they are agreeing to withdraw all applications to other schools once they have been accepted ED (just a reminder for new readers - thats what applying Early Decision “ED” means). And that deadline is long before need based FA decisions are made. From what I recall this has not been a issue at Elon but every year there are some students here on CC that report that they applied to some other school ED only to be shocked that they couldn’t afford to attend and have very few options because they withdrew all their other applications as required. Applying Early Action “EA” would have normally preserved the students options… </p>
<p>As I said before: I think Elon does a very good job with FA, but it’s important to compare apples to apples and remember that Elon purposefully starts with a base tuition of 10k 15k less than other comparable schools and about what most students would expect to pay at an OOS flagship university. </p>
<p>One last thing for newer folks who may not follow all the stats. Elon works very hard to put together a great class of freshmen every year and is always concerned with fit, they look at the whole application not just GPA/SAT. This means a few things - Some applicants with very good GPA/SAT’s but no life outside school are shocked to be deferred. Some applicants with good GPA’s and SAT’s 600+ (per section / including writing), leadership, unique EC’s, and religious or historically underrepresented populations are very encouraged especially in the ED/EA rounds of applications.</p>
<p>West Virginia U
I know 2 kids there, both C+ students looking for big time sports and unable to get into Penn State, etc. They like it there. Alas, neihter is Jewish, so no Hillel info. I am confident it would be a safe choice for your son and he would love the spectator sports (much, much better teams than JMU, Towson; better football and basketball than UMCP or Rutgers and much better basketball than Penn State). </p>
<p>I am less confident you would love the academics and the size–or the risk that he would love the sports so much that he would choose it over a better academic fit.</p>
<p>In regards to West Virginia U, is there a reputation that they are a suitcase school? The party reputation bothers me, do you think its much different than say UMCP?</p>
<p>I did a little more reading on West Virginia - there seems to be 2 campuses - there are housing related threads that talk about having classes at the downtown campus and their dorm being up on the hill - I can’t quite visualize this - but it does not sound great. It also ranks in Princeton Review’s top party schools regularly. I also read a very funny comment that the student body was mostly local, good old country boy types and kids from NJ! Those NJ kids are everywhere!:)</p>
<p>Anyway, this one was just a random thought. I was surprised to see they even had Jewish kids or a Hillel. It’s not going on the list.</p>