Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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<p>We all have our individual opinions, all of which I respect, about at what income level paying for private schools is worth doing. I have not seen any surveys or media stories this year about a notable drop in private school applications at any income level; has anyone else?</p>

<p>I have seen stories that the top colleges have seen an increase in applications, but I assume those schools are exempt from economic pressures. I have also read of increases in applications to public colleges, but not of a corresponding drop at expensive, but not elite private schools.</p>

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<p>I think the best advice for anyone going through this process is to have a wide range of price tags on their list - and do lots of research as to merit and need-based FA options at each school. With S1 - I really did not understand this. I had in my head the notion that somehow it will all work out. The abstract idea of “paying for college” is so different from how it actually feels in July when you know that hefty bill is due in 3 weeks. S1 really lucked out - he got a great need-based FA pkg from Wake Forest - effectively cutting the $54,000 price tag in half - otherwise - I really don’t know what would have happened.</p>

<p>With S2 - we have options ranging from $18,000 a year in-state at Towson to $54,000+ at Gettysburg. Now that I know how it works - we also have several options in between those 2 extremes that we would be willing to pay for in full - we also have options that are a little more costly - but maybe he would get some merit aid. I like the idea of not ruling anything out based on price - as long as we all understand where the limits are and which schools would require some financial assistance. As I learned with S1 - you just never know what will happen.</p>

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<p>One more point on the subject of merit-based aid - this is an area where you really have to look at the website for each college and read thoroughly. Many schools do not require a separate application - you are automatically considered for merit aid simply by applying. </p>

<p>But, there are also merit scholarships that do require a separate application. With S1 - I missed this at Michigan. He was accepted - but with virtually no FA and we could not swing the $44,000+ OOS price tag. Much later - I had posted something about this experience on CC and someone responded to me that with S1’s stats, he should have been able to get a particular merit scholarship - which I was completely unaware of. It was too late at that point - and he has been very happy at Wake Forest - but I am still very annoyed at myself for not doing a better job of researching merit scholarships at that particular university. Won’t make the same mistake twice.</p>

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<p>Way back when - I had looked at this school for S2 and decided against it - it seemed a little too hippie in its vibe - too few students from OOS - too many students living off campus. Took another look at the website today though - and I’m reconsidering - anyone go there or have any direct knowledge of this school?</p>

<p>Here’s what I like:</p>

<p>[Welcome</a> to the Center for Jewish Studies at UNC Asheville](<a href=“http://www2.unca.edu/cjs/]Welcome”>http://www2.unca.edu/cjs/) </p>

<p><a href=“http://sites.google.com/site/uncahillel/home[/url]”>http://sites.google.com/site/uncahillel/home&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Seems to be some Jewish life there - although I have not yet found a number for Jewish students.</p>

<p>Student body is about 3500 - with 1/3 living on campus and another 1/3 living within a mile of campus.</p>

<p>Offers early action - S2 fits their profile pretty well. Our Naviance shows 6 students applied in 2010 - 5 were accepted and 1 will attend. Weighted GPAs ranged from 3.5 - 4.0 and SAT of about 1150 and up and ACT of about 26 and up looked fine.</p>

<p>OOS price is about $24,000 for tuition, room & board</p>

<p>Majors include various business offerings - marketing, mgmt, etc.</p>

<p>I’m wondering now if we should try to visit when we see Elon - but would love some feedback first.</p>

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<p>Re Asheville, I thinkl I read a concern about 4 year graduation rate on CC, with the poster wondering if it reflected a lot of transfers to Chapel Hill, but I could be mistaken.</p>

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<p>rockvillemom, we visited. I was one of the posters really questioning their low graduation rate. I was offered some reasons, but I was still far from satisfied with the reasons given. My son ended up not applying. The campus is very nice, btw. I thought there were enough things to get to in the immediate area. I also felt that OOS pricing was similar to our instate pricing and our son had an instate school that we all liked, so I could not see a reason to send our son to a public school with a lower grad rate in NC, not to mention paying for transportation costs. This school did tell us that they do have merit scholarships available for out of state students, btw.</p>

<p>If you like this school, but are also interested in a NC public that is a bit larger, you might want to look at UNC-Wilmington. The airport is not too far from campus. I feel that the location of the airport is a factor too. Some schools do not have an airport offering direct flights within a 2 hour drive! That would not have been for us!</p>

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<p>I don’t know much about UNC Ashville but I have a Jewish friend whose S will be a freshman this Fall. He is OOS but has great stats and he did get merit aid and into the honors program. He’s not a hippie type but loves the environment at Ashville and is really excited about going there. The honors program was really just an afterthought for him after admission. I have had this one in the back of my mind to possibly look at if S is inclined to go in that direction. I have been waiting to hear how the year progresses for this young man. Incidentally, he is starting at this school because it was his first choice. His mom has some concern about if the school will have the resources he needs when he gets to be an upper classman and already has had thoughts about a possible transfer. I wonder if this sort of thinking affects the graduation rate from this school. If so I would expect that the chosen major would influence the decison. BTW this young man expects to be a bio major but not pre-med.</p>

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<p>UNC-Asheville is a good school and like all UNC schools has gone through a major transformation because NC voters floated a major bond referendum to modernize the entire system over the past decade. So if you saw it even 3 years ago you might not recognize it. UNC-A is known as a writers school and will likely always be the outdoorsy, quirky, LA school of the UNC system. </p>

<p>It’s kind of a suitcase school because the city of Asheville is only a short drive / ride away and has an active nightlife and arts scene. Lots of students would describe themselves as living in Asheville and attending UNC-Asheville. The attachment to the city of Asheville often grows stronger than the attachment to the school. There are lots of good schools all over the country that probably provide this level of education, but for a certain mature student looking for an spiritual (not conventional) / artsy community it would likely be wonderful.</p>

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<p>FWIW story:
UNCA was my s first and only choice. He did not want to even apply to other schools, even though we visited more than a dozen. The limits on OOS acceptances (we are in SC) worried me but after visiting three times, I thought the school, the community, the size, the majors offered and the surrounding mountains (loves fishing and camping) where perfect, too. I loved the liberal arts committment, the freshman seminars, and the focus on undergraduate teaching. (Very few graduate students so no TAs, just faculty.) He loved the music scene, the travel abroad program, the professors he met, the kids he saw, the feeling on the campus. </p>

<p>When he did got deferred after applying EA, he applied to CofC and USC (S. Carolina) in December but really pursued UNCA, sending admissions info about new honors and better grades (he really stepped up his game.) Accepted in March. Also accepted to USC and CofC with merit scholarships but still: UNCA, so he turns down the other schools.</p>

<p>Second week of June he goes to orientation. I get a phone call late the first night, “Mom, I think I made a misstake.” When he came home, he took a day to think about it and decided that he wanted to go to CofC, instead. I left it his hands. Late that day, I received a text message “Took care of everything. Paid tuition and housing desposits at CofC. I am very happy.” Even got the scholarships reinstated.</p>

<p>He felt that UNCA had too many students from NC and that they all knew one another. I know that is not possible and that probably a bunch of kids from the same high school signed up for the same orientation seession. But he knew it felt too small for him.</p>

<p>So now my outdoorsy guy is in an urban area but loving it. Couple of lessons learned here:</p>

<p>What seems perfect as a junior may change by the time you are a senior. Give yourself lots of options. It’s important to pick a school that has specific majors but recognize that majors and interests change, too.</p>

<p>The more a student “owns” his/her choice, the better the experience.</p>

<p>I think UNCA is a wonderful school.</p>

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<p>Thanks, stillnadine for a very thoughtful reflection.</p>

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<p>rockvillemom, are you OK? We were in MD over the weekend and experienced the heat wave, and it did not even cool down at night, and then heard about the horrible wind knocking out power and downing trees last night…you probably don’t have power yet. We are thinking of you and the other posters from your area!</p>

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<p>RVM and the rest from MD, I second that I hope you’re doing fine. I just wanted briefly share that S2 got home from Israel late last night talking a mile a minute, showing off photos and to my surprise wearing a yamulka. What an amazing experience! I asked how this changed him and he said he had a greater sense of Jewish pride. It was stiking to him to be in a place were being Jewish was the norm. I guess a college with a Jewish vibe available is going to be important to him.</p>

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<p>Spectrum2: So glad to hear he had such a great time. You never know what happens to them after a trip to Israel… my D registered for her classes at UDel last week… she opted not to continue French but to TAKE HEBREW instead! Her advisor told her that she’d need three semesters and she was find with that. She is still intent on a Jewish studies minor. </p>

<p>To me, it’s all about laying a good foundation – whatever your values are. They will make the right decision for them; you just have to have confidence that you did all you could when you actually could make an impact.</p>

<p>Interesting conversation here about college debt. D will have a small loan after attending her OOS public. However, we will have to really think about S, who will be very interested in small private schools (he’ll be looking for colleges for Jewish A students… very competitive…the safeties/financial safeties will be so important). Will also take into account that he will likely be going into a much higher paying career field than D… he doesn’t graduate from HS for three more years… hopefully, the economy and the job market will be in much better shape by then!!</p>

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<p>Lindymom: Particularly for an A student there are several schools including LAC’s that guarantee to meet 100% of demonstrated need without loans. What you consider need and the school considers need can differ but it can be a very good deal.</p>

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<p>LOL - You can say that again!</p>

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<p>Yay - our power/Internet is restored!!! Thanks Pepco/Comcast!</p>

<p>Thank you for the info on UNCA. stillnadine - I remembered that story from another thread - thanks for sharing it again. I’m thinking the school might be too tilted towards in-state and too artsy/hippie for S2 - but am keeping it in mind as a maybe. But C of C probably is a better option at that level of school - as it is about 10% Jewish and has more OOS students. I wish Maryland had more in-state options for us to choose from. We were going to go to Towson this past Sunday just to see the campus - but postponed trip due to heat - good thing we did given the horrendous storms. Still on our to-do list.</p>

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<p>[The</a> Hillel Monopoly - Campus - New Voices](<a href=“Campus & Community Archives | New Voices”>http://www.newvoices.org/campus?id=0079)</p>

<p>Just stumbled across this - interesting take on some of the weaknesses of Hillel. I think it also raises some interesting points about Jewish life at campuses with a fairly small Jewish population.</p>

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<p>Interesting article indeed. Much of it struck me as whining by an orthodox student smart enough to get into Swarthmore but who apparently did not look into their Hillel in advance and is now somehow shocked to learn that a Quaker school of only about 1600 students of all religions will not have a large orthodox community.</p>

<p>He complains that the Penn or U. of Illinois Hillel is what a Hillel should be–without seemingly realizing that his problem is not with Swarthmore’s Hillel, but with Swarthmore’s size–of course a small LAC will not have the sort of Hillel that a good sized university has. </p>

<p>He also seems very intolerant of less observant students. He says “Hillel needs to decide whether it is possible to provide a space for every Jewish student, no matter who they are or where they come from.” His implication is that Hillel should only cater to students as observant as he is–but what choice does Hillel have? If Hillel does not seek to “provide a space for every Jewish student”, where will every excluded Jewish student go?</p>

<p>Yes, students going to small schools–even with a 20-30% Jewish population such as Swarthmore–will not find hundreds of Hillel members and especially not hundreds, or even dozens, who keep Kosher. But this self-aborbed young man is blaming his Hillel when he should be blaming himself for picking the wrong college. He did his high school homework well enough to get into Swarthmore, but he did college homework very poorly.</p>

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<p>yabeyabe2, I didn’t get the feeling that the author is necessarily orthodox, just that he was very involved with Jewish life before coming to Swarthmore. He writes earlier “some Jewish students say that they feel unwelcome at Hillel, whether because the Hillel regulars are unfriendly or the Judaic content is unfamiliar. I know the feeling.” I agree he didn’t do his homework beforehand on the nature of the Jewish community at Swat. I also don’t know how much he’s stepping up to help create community. He could just be whining, or he could be someone who helps volunteer who is talking about issues he sees as an involved student. </p>

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<p>This quote could also imply that Hillel should primarily cater to less observant students, who might be in the majority. It’s a problem for students of all ideological stripes.</p>

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<p>Different subject: D1 got a letter from Muhlenberg where they described their new dining facilities, which will include kosher dining.</p>