Colleges in the 2021-2022 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 2)

Right…it seems the federal government will not mandate the vaccines for their employees and the military until full FDA approval because of the wording of the statue.

I am sure there will be legal challenges to entities that mandate the vaccines. The wording of the EUA statute does give a person the choice to accept or refuse the product, but, the statue says nothing about the rights of public or private companies, schools, etc. levying consequences on people who have chosen to not receive said EUA product (the vaccine in this case)…so no enrollment to X college, or access to the NFL draft, etc. unless you have been vaccinated.

Further complicating the issue is that the three EUA vaccines had been tested in a greater number of people than a typical vaccine has been tested in when it files for full FDA approval. Who knows if that will make a difference legally, or not.

And I’d guess that the 80% capacity wouldn’t impact first year students anyway and that they would be assured of housing on campus should they want it (and given their vaccine status), just given the importance of on-campus housing to those incoming students and their families.

I can’t even imagine trying to earn a BFA w/o having access to the studio! Especially if you are still in foundation. For engineering, pre-reqs and gen eds fill up most of the typical first-year schedule so if Michigan is able to hold those in-person that’s terrific news!

Glad your daughter was able to get it! My daughter got hers when they had an unexpected vaccination event on campus during a storm when the local health department had a LOT of shots that were going to go to waste and needed to get in arms quickly. Then the school allowed a local health system to use the football stadium as a vaccination site so a lot of students and staff were vaccinated there. Eventually they were able to get enough doses from the state to vaccinate all students, faculty and staff who wanted in. Some kids also traveled to rural areas in the state to find it. She said everyone on campus is just so much happier now that things are starting to lighten up a bit.


Private entities (including colleges and universities) probably have more leeway here than do public ones.

I’d think it’d make a difference in the timeline to full approval for sure. Requires six months of data (but I don’t know the details). I think with the UC system they only need one of the vaccines to reach full approval. Approval will make a huge difference both in the legal standings of the mandates (perhaps all publics are counting on this occurring prior to fall '21) and in public confidence. I realize we’ve hashed through some of this upthread. I’m just now getting completely up to speed w/r/t the legal aspect :slight_smile:

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I’m no epidemiologist, but even if the US does, indeed, reach herd immunity before a variant breaks through, doesn’t that still mean we face another potential pandemic? If would just enter the country from elsewhere in the world.

Why would it necessarily affect the quality of the campus experience, other than for those who voluntarily refuse vaccination and get COVID-19 or be subject to added restrictions like testing and quarantine requirements? By fall, everyone 16 or older is likely to have had ample time and opportunity to get vaccinated, so COVID-19 risk becomes mostly a personal choice, not a mostly involuntary risk that can get imposed on people against their will.

Note that California also has a relatively high level of vaccine enthusiasm anyway, so the vaccine uptake among California college students is likely to be relatively high compared to college students in general.

The main thing that can change this calculation is if a dangerous variant that largely evades vaccine protection shows up, but then all colleges and other entities, whether or not they required vaccination, will be in trouble with “back to normal” plans.

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12-15 vaccine approval should be very very soon…which willhelp this whole mess! We are partnered w health department(for covid vaccine) and have been hearing the past couple of weeks it is definitely soon and to get ready for the increase in eligibility.


There is always the threat of another potential pandemic, whether it is based on a vaccine-evading variant of something that is vaccinated for, or something completely new. For example, influenza is a constant threat, since it mutates easily in vaccine-evading ways (and influenza vaccines are not that great to begin with), and occasional strains (like the one in 1918) can be much more virulent than typical.

For Engineering most curriculums actually have few geneds and if they take any they may only take one a semester. I know that’s all my daughter took freshman year and my son isn’t planning on taking any GenEd courses freshman year. Even if he had to take Chemistry which he will already have the credit for, that lecture which is a larger one shows in person. Maybe the remote courses are the very large LSA ones that have a few hundred students in them? No idea.

Great news! All my nieces and nephews are in this age range and I know their parents are anxious and excited for them to get it!! If the timeline is moved up from the original date of August, which is what we’ve been told for the last month that would be fantastic.

Isn’t it great when everyone is so happy and relieved when the majority of those on campus have it? It’s like breathing new life into the place. I can’t tell you the feeling I felt when I had mine in late January and then totally understood when each of my kids went through it and my husband in April. Such a great feeling and the start of cautiously being able to live again.

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Yes, quickly perusing the course catalog it appears that all the core chem sections required by the school of engineering are online, while calc is all in person and physics offers a blend of options. Again, these are core (so basic) and not the more advanced sections that many engineering students might place into. Good for general info. By the way, all of those courses are technically “LSA” even if they have 100% engineering students, simply because the departments of chemistry, mathematics and physics have their home in the liberal arts college. And of course some of those pre-reqs probably count toward any gen ed required by the university (and by ABET).

Definitely not august–the data was completed in March! The dates “published” are always very conservative. Hopefully all children will be nearing approval or approved by 4th quarter 2021.

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Hope this is true!

We keep hearing still late summer even though they would like it to be May. Let’s hope because I know tons of people who would love to get their kids vaccinated before their kids go off to overnight camp as opposed to having to wait until they return!

ABET engineering curriculum requirements include a minimum of 25% of the bachelor’s degree credit amount in math and natural science, and a minimum of 37.5% in engineering science and design (in practice, greater amounts of engineering science and design are commonly required). It also requires a general education component of unspecified volume, although the minimum is probably around 12.5%, based on schools like Michigan and Brown. Some schools have substantially greater humanities and social studies requirements, such as MIT at around 25%.

At colleges my kids attend, the student body and faculty have largely been vaccinated. The lower level staff, however, has much lower vaccination rates. I expect this trend is true nationwide. It will be an interesting fall.

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I (like all of you) have been reading a lot about how we can get the vax rates up on campus. I think these are the 4 methods we’re going to see:

  1. Stop making it political. This has caused people to draw hard lines and it’s not helping.
  2. Super convenient. We need vax locations right on the middle of campus with the one shot J&J vaccine. Also, we need to bring the vaccine to people.
  3. Make life so much better if you’re vaxed and not so great if you’re unvaxed. Colleges can do this by closing small unventilated classes to unvaxed, no indoor events, no cafeteria, and no dorms. Schools won’t advertise this method, but instead will quietly make life not so great while the vaccine is readily available.
  4. Talk to students about not going home and killing their grandparents. Sure, the student is very unlikely to die, but that doesn’t hold true for their older relatives. Even if the older relatives are vaccinated there is still a chance.

Anyway, I thought it would be helpful to distil it down to 4 points…

While those are helpful, they are unlikely to address the major source of vaccine reluctance, the staff, many of whom are protected by unions which will object to any vaccine mandate.

I couldn’t agree with this more. I know some places are started to offer incentives for people to get vaccinated, but I just don’t believe the incentives are enough, or rather high enough.

I did read last night though that “about 71% of people in San Francisco have had at least one dose of the vaccine, 47% have been fully vaccinated. They are recording 20 cases a day.” This is phenomenal. Of course, their homeless population is huge and I have no idea what or if they’re doing anything to vaccinate that population, but all they need to do is go to the tenderloin district and other areas with the JNJ and mobile vaccine trucks and get those shots in them and of course keep an eye on them. Get people going into stores, facilities, etc. I wish they could get people going onto planes, but of course can’t watch them medically. But boy imagine if they could get people vaccinated in public transportation hubs. I know people who just haven’t had the time or made the time to do it. Or, will but it just wasn’t a rush for them. I think throughout summer we will see those people. Especially as things open and people want to go places and vaccination will be required.

One of my daughter’s has an internship in Israel this summer. Being vaccinated she can reduce the amount of mandatory quarantine she has to do upon arrival. We can all agree that Israel has hit a grand slam with how they’ve done with the vaccine administration. We can also travel to go visit her because we too are vaccinated and that’s their requirement,

The good news is that the vaccine is making a difference. With half of the staff and students fully vaccinated (more probably who haven’t reported yet), and the fact that we just had 2 days off for “wellness days” and we know kids left that weren’t supposed to, etc. we’re basically at zero cases. The only cases are basically from staff, which are most likely similar to what you’ve said probably not vaccinated and getting covid from non-mask wearing activities away from the university. In the fall it was staff as well and there were from church outbreaks in more rural areas away from campus where numerous staff live and attend. There are many in person or hybrid classes and exams are in person. They also are having an in person graduation - of course, you know things are coming alive again when everything in town triples including airfare to get there. Not thrilled this will be me in two years but worse I may have 2 kids graduating on the same weekend at two different schools on same day in 2 states, yikes! That’s about the only thing covid would’ve helped.

We haven’t found this to be the case in Colorado. It’s mostly 2 things with workers. First the vaccine is still labeled experimental. It’s reasonable to be reluctant until the vaccine is fully approved. The good news is this should be resolved over the summer. Second, most of the unvaxed are hourly employees that are not the best with computers. Simply going to their community in the evening or on the weekend has seen high vaccine rates. Colleges can and will bring the vaccine to their employees.

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