Colleges in UK, Ireland and Europe for Americans

College Search & Lists
21

Yes based on some prelim research that seems to be the case. I think most kids even at the top schools are now relying on a mix of methods including career services, sites like indeed and linked in and networking to get jobs.

It seems the pipeline into finance and consulting companies is still largely through on campus recruiting. I know though finance jobs can be obtained via recruiting firms. I don’t know about consulting.

I am sure though most of these firms given their multinational nature also recruit at the top Canadian universities. And being a Canadian citizen would help. And there possibly is internal mobility within these firms.

I am sure these large multi national firms also recruit in top European schools. What I am not sure about is if being a US citizen would be considered a disadvantage for them when they are recruiting in Europe.

I would be very keen to hear from parents whose kids in Canada or Europe had success (or failure) with campus recruiting.

1 Like
22

Compared to similarly ranked US universities, European universities have very little by way of career centers or career fairs, although those exist.

She can stay in Ireland for experience (especially if she has a “sandwich” degree) or go to continental Europe for further experience.
Her degree will be highly valued there and gaining experience will help her for the US.

The specific issue for Engineering is that one must have an ABET-accredited degree to be hired in the US. To the best of my knowledge, no Irish program is ABET accredited but that can be easily dealt with by gaining an ABET-accredited one-year Master’s (her undergraduate degree will make that Master’s a piece of cake).

Another issue is that students must get used to another grading scale where 70% is a top grade - and when they return to the US they have to use the letter grade not the percentage.
A good test to see whether a student could be successful is whether they can pull 5s on AP tests with no family support - organize their study time entirely on their own without parent involvement.
Indeed, a major caveat for American students is that they may have very few hours in class per week, no real direction given because it’s assumed they know what to do from upper secondary preparation, and find they’ve failed only when exams come. This is especially exacerbated at English universities, a bit less at Scottish/NI/Irish universities. UToronto and McGill are comparatively easier to get into than highly ranked US colleges but MUCH MUCH harder to graduate from.

2 Likes
23

• College in Western Europe, from what we see, is for extremely diligent, extremely efficient American students who know how to manage their time effectively. For this specific student, it should be a part of their college application process

• As @MYOS1634 says, the unique grading scale is very, VERY real. For some classes, the final exam is >50% final grade. Completed homeworks don’t help you across the pond.

• Obv, beware of the currency exchanges. Although the tuition advantage vs domestic exists, rent, food costs (housing isn’t guaranteed after first year in most places), and lifestyle incidentals are the 1000 light cuts that you’ll withstand. By the way, for the right high school student (lots of 5s, elite grades, high SATs, can add some value to a sports program, etc), some tuition/R&B money was available a couple of years ago, don’t know what that looks like now, but worth exploring.

• It’s a different culture, as you can imagine. 18 to drink and you need to make sure that your DC is ready to manage that in a mature fashion.

• Two at a state school, and one overseas. Jobs wise, what we’re learning is that star applicants at mid-tier state schools stand out. When touring state schools, make sure to visit the career center and ask about the most active companies showing up for campus career fairs – is there something of a pipeline? You’ll find that the standout applicants find favorable outcomes in certain non-tech majors

• U.S. job placement for kids coming from European schools remains something that demands the student’s attention. MBB recruits there at a limited level (especially in this current economy,) but there is a presence. Again, what we’re learning is that the star state-school candidate (amazing work experience/internship and strong academics) can find options in certain industries, but (as you might imagine/already know) the competition between top-tier students in finance/consulting is an absolute food-fight domestically – being overseas only makes that even more challenging. Anecdotally, we’re seeing accomplished kids get internships after tapping either parental networks or company recruiters connecting through alumni acquaintances over INDEED/LINKEDIN.

• DC chose Europe awaiting word from a U.S. school, ultimately choosing to stay even after receiving some very nice admits. Just loves the culture, loves the rigor, the relatively easy travel opportunities and has made dozens of friends. We recommend every mature, diligent, high achieving applicant to at least consider the European option in the midst of other domestic education choices.

5 Likes
24

One thing to note – my daughter was very interested in the University of Limerick -until she find out that it is very hard to switch your major. She’s not set in her path -and European schools seem much less flexible in changing directions once you start.

Many other UK schools -from what I can tell - have a midterm and final – or just a final to determine grades. She also found this unnerving.

I don’t know that Canadian schools are like this though -and we are still considering those. As a US citizen there are limited schools within our budget. (Our budget kind of stinks though!)

2 Likes
25

While the midterm/final impact is a very real thing, i would look again at the nuances of switching your major. There might be some more flexibility there.

1 Like
26

Our S24 applied to St Andrews, and we got as far as a post-offer visit before he decided to stick with his US options. Along the way I talked to a lot of parents, or otherwise read a lot of stories.

I think for some kids, it works out great. They love the adventure, the setting, get a good degree, maybe stay on in another country, and so on.

Some did not do as well, and some transferred back. I think every such story is different, but some common themes included not doing well with a very different form of evaluation than they were used to, and sometimes the lack of what we would consider to be normal student support services.

Then a decent number of kids like my S24 get pretty far in considering this path, but ultimately decide it isn’t really for them. Obviously no way of knowing how it would have gone, but one common theme is the lack of an exploratory model. Basically, you are largely committed to whatever you choose as your course (what we might call a major), and my S24 and others I know about wanted more flexibility.

But again, if you like your course, do well in evaluations, and like the overall experience, then it can be great.

3 Likes
27

You could look into the Liberal Arts major at Queen’s Belfast. It’s a 4-year degree and you can pivot to IR, Economics, and a variety of joint degrees after the first year. Accomodations are decent and there’s a “student village” of sorts.

Note: Trinity is great but Dublin is difficult for housing.

For an open choice, look into “Arts” (course M100 I think) at Maynooth. You take a Critical Thinking seminar and 3 courses of your choice - you decide when you register. You then choose your major or joint degree from these 3 courses (the Critical Thinking seminar is replaced with a professional skills workshop during the second year). For Americans it’s VERY EASY to get into and not very expensive. Ireland’s CAO is very easy to use.

Honours Liberal Arts Colleges like Roosevelt or Leiden in the Netherlands have interdisciplinary seminars and lots of possible majors - look for one with guaranteed housing.

3 Likes
28

My D26 is looking at an international option in Ireland- it took me longer than I care to admit to understand what they were saying with the whole ‘courses’ thing. :innocent:

I was like- yeah, but how do we know what courses she needs to take without knowing the major. lol. :rofl:

3 Likes
29

And then they call individual classes “modules”.

Nations divided by a common language . . . .

3 Likes
30

Friends daughter went to Trinity and unfortunately had a difficult time finding employment. Once she returned to the states it took her over a year to find something and honestly she’s underemployed for her degree. But I have no idea if that’s unusual or not.

The other thing to consider is that the UK schools don’t have the same process if your child gets sick. A medical withdrawal basically just means forfeiting the semester. Grade forgiveness does not seem to be a thing.

3 Likes
31

what major or subject area?

what was her process for trying to find employment? how persistent was she?

Did the school overseas offer any resources for placement here?

32

Business. She did some kind of BS/MBA combination.

I can’t answer the other questions. I just know her parents were disappointed.

1 Like
33

I would be surprised if they did. Maybe a university in Europe would offer Europe-wide resources but generally I would expect them to focus on their own countries in terms of career fairs, etc.

I know a few people who did undergrad in the UK recently (D19’s kind of time), they all stayed there - one for masters and the other 2 working in the City - but they all had dual UK citizenship too so not sure how representative that is.

3 Likes
34

Ah she’s definitely a STEM kid – just not sure which STEM field! But these are good options and I’ll take a look!

35

Universities offer minimal support in-country. Trinity has a longer reach than most. In France, Grandes Écoles have a solid alumni network. In Scotland, the Ancient4+HerriotWatt and other tech schools have a solid profile.
They don’t help any more than US universities help students looking for jobs in India or Nigeria etc. (And have FAR fewer resources to do so even for the UK or Ireland).
However it’s relatively easy to get a work visa (quasi automatic) for foreign university graduates and thus gain experience to help with a return to the US and/or get into a Master’s program.

2 Likes
36

And often just an end of year exam on everything you’ve learned. So it’s not just cramming at the end of each course for a standalone final but making sure you remember what you did in September when exams come around in June. It was critical to spend 2-3 weeks of the vacations at Christmas and Easter revising what you’d done that term, so you weren’t trying to learn it all at the end of the year.

4 Likes
37

And UK students of course are already used to this kind of assessment from high school/A levels.

4 Likes
38

I wouldn’t call it “transferring back”. In many cases, it’s starting all over again because either the performance was so poor that there were no credits to transfer, OR because the university the kid ended up in stateside would not accept the credits (no comparable course).

Folks need to understand that the three years of U overseas sounds like a bargain- except if you end up paying for year 1 overseas, and then four years in the US when the grand experiment doesn’t turn out so well.

2 Likes
39

Our large Midwest suburban public sends 2-3 kids a year to these schools. These programs are preferred because you don’t need to declare a major ahead of time. These students do very well and have great experiences.

However, these students are self selected and tend to have the following characteristics:

Strong academics. Not always the tippy-top students, but smart and hardworking
Almost all of them come out of our school’s IB Diploma track
Almost all of them have experience traveling in Europe
Many of them have dual citizenship in a European Union country
Many of them have extended family or family friends who live in Europe
Not looking for a school “name” so much as a rigorous education and rich life experience
Do not care about Greek life or school sports

7 Likes
40

I think this is a great summary. I’d add “has gotten through HS with minimal scaffolding from their parents”.

The ones who are successful in Europe are NOT the kids who had parents emailing the teacher about a lousy test score, pestering the administration to change the policy on “make up” exams, racing up to school to drop off the assignment which was left in the printer instead of put into the backpack before the bus came, or complaining to the coach that the after-school snacks provided by other parents were “junk food”. (I’d say- if you care, have your kid pack themselves a box of raisins and a water bottle and then shut up, but I am not very popular).

If you are a parent who has had to “pave the way” for your kids success thus far, you need some introspection before concluding that your kid can handle a European university with minimal hand-holding, support, concerned grownups, and an entire fleet of “fixers” to make appointments with the allergist, nutritionist, writing center, or obtain an emotional support animal.

I know families who drool over the ancient campuses, the lush gardens, the stone walls and can picture their kid happily chatting about Kant on their way to tea. Or sitting by the fire in a rickety pub playing chess in the evening.

YOUR KID NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PASS HIS/HER CLASSES. Which is not always obvious to an American kid who has been getting a ton of invisible support to get through HS!!!

10 Likes