Colleges in UK, Ireland and Europe for Americans

College Search & Lists
41

This is a great topic, and I hope more with firsthand knowledge will pop up and provide information.
It is always the little things that you do not think about that can really make or break these situations. So far lots of good info and food for thought has been brought up.
My daughter is looking at Ireland so we sent her to a month-long program over the summer to see how she would handle it and for her to make sure that she likes Ireland as a whole! She flew solo and had to do immigration/customs on her own.
None of that was a problem. She absolutely loved the area and everyone that she interacted with.

She is rethinking things though- the reason: the flight. She does not like the idea of having to go through that every time she wants to come home- said it made her feel a bit claustrophobic knowing that she could not just hop in a car and go if needed?!
(I get it- I lived in Hawaii for a few years and that bothered me also)
But it is just one more thing to think about.
~

This is D26. She is not looking for famous universities with huge name recognition- she wants experience that also provides a top-notch education and that is a good fit for her. And the cost is very comparable to our in-state options. So, it is a perfect opportunity.

It will be interesting to see what she decides, and I hope others going through this can also provide their processes and thoughts.

Especially job placement and overall success rates (if did not do well- what caused it?)

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42

This might be an area where universities in Canada are more similar to universities in the US, whereas Europe tends to be more rigid.

Our daughter who attended university in Canada did change her major, and in a relatively significant way. She started as a languages major, then switched to biology. She did need to apply for permission to change her major, but this is true at many (not all) universities in the US as well. She needed to catch up on the biology/chemistry courses, but that is just part of changing majors anywhere.

I have not noticed all that many differences between universities in Canada versus the US on an overall basis. Admissions might be more predictable and more stats based in Canada (at least for the top schools). In general there might be fewer general education requirements in Canada, but this may depend upon the university. For someone with dual citizenship the costs in Canada are lower (in many cases lower than in-state public schools in the US).

Otherwise I have noticed more differences from one university to the next than between universities in the US versus in Canada.

One daughter was accepted to universities in both countries. She really wasnā€™t comparing the US with Canada. She was comparing specific universities (such as McGill vs UVM). This might be the right way to think of it.

I have known a number of people who did undergrad in Canada, and then graduate school in the US. This does not seem to be a problem either. I donā€™t know anyone who did the other way around, although off hand I couldnā€™t say why not. I also have known a few people who did undergrad in either India or the UK, and then did graduate school in the US.

There is an advantage to being able to drive home, for example for Christmas (which is of course a time of year when snow can get in the way). Of course this is also an argument for attending a local university rather than one on the other side of the US.

One thing about attending university in a different country: You get to see a bit more of the world. You get to meet a lot of people with a slightly different view of things. I consider this to be a plus. In my experience I have noticed more similarities than differences between people pretty much anywhere in the world. Taking one semester or one year abroad is another option which might have some of the same advantages.

Perhaps the biggest risk of sending a child to university in a different country is that they might not come back ā€“ they might settle in the other country. How large of a risk this is I do not know, but it is not really all that bad if it happens. A child can end up living pretty far away even just here in the US.

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43

I assume that if she moves out of the country for school- she will probably stay out. I would look at that as a positive (assuming she is happy!). This is the time in oneā€™s life to be adventurous and find yourself. (I may be an outlier- but I feel the college experience is more than just the education aspect)
Both my husband and I are veterans, and both joined right out of high school, so we had that adventurous- get out of dodge and explore the world mentality. Would not be surprised that she may be the same :slight_smile: .
(our oldest is another story :wink: )

We are going to visit the Ireland school this October as a family- so hopefully that will help sway her opinion one way or another. She spent the summer in Ireland- but did not get to see the prospective school.

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44

You can easily visit UCD, Trinity, Maynooth, Cork during a tourist trip, over a couple days (Trinityā€™s Book of Kells and their library, the immigration museum, UCCā€™s Glucksman gallery, the prison/fort, even the ā€œEnglishā€ market or the Cork Butter Museum..); Limerick, Galway a bit further but not much and fantastic drive. Then go up North and do the drive from Derry to Belfast, plan to stop by Queenā€™s (UK system but some special programs and special relationship to the US; cost not as high as England though higher than in Ireland.) If you have direct ancestors and she graduates from an Irish university, has an Irish driverā€™s license, etc, it can facilitate acquiring Irish citizenship.

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45

I have a niece and nephew who are recent graduates of St. Andrews and a second cousin who is a current student. They all love it and itā€™s so much less expensive than most US schools. Having said thatā€¦niece is struggling to find work back in the US. Nephew stayed there for grad school and is working in some way affiliated with his Env Engineering PhD program and is engaged to a girl there so likely not coming back. Second cousin is currently a student and I donā€™t know much about her status other than that she loves it.

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46

Job upon graduation is what bothers me as my son is not a EU citizen.

He is very independent and has spent a lot of time in Europe in summer programs. He will be able to manage independently.

I am inclined to believe that Canada is the better bet for him as he is a Canadian citizen and hasnā€™t quite decided on a major.

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47

If he hasnā€™t decided on a major, he can also attend an ā€œanglophoneā€ CEGEP in QuĆ©bec. There are different streams (Natural sciences, Maths&CS, Humanities& Communication.., some with Honors) that cover 3-5 possible majors at university, thereā€™s a bit more hand holding since students are supposed to be 17-20, itā€™s free for Canadian citizens, and completing the 2-year program automatically lets you skip the first year in university since the second cegep year covers Y0 uni courses (calc2, linear algebra, etc.) thus letting you start in your major right away and completing it in 3 years.
Heā€™d be admitted strictly on his cegep results (ā€œRā€ ranking) thus giving him some breathing room for HS - CEGEP admission is selective, especially for Honours and STEM, but WAY less than McGill and co.

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48

Hereā€™s a program in English. ā‚¬7,300 tuition, ā‚¬5,500 room, ā‚¬2,500 board
Recommended: AP Calc BC, AP physics 1 and/or 2 and/or C, AP English or European History, AP CS (Principles, A..)

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49

Just random musings, but in my circles people sometimes look at Toronto or McGill or such, but then they are almost TOO similar to a large US public.

Thanks to CC, actually, I am now aware that there is more variety in Canadian undergrad programs, such that probably more US kids could be considering them.

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50

This was a big reason my kid decided not to pursue university in Europe (despite being a dual citizen with extended family there). Our most recent trip back reminded him that even for a relatively short direct flight of 7ish hours, the whole process takes twice as long, door to doorā€“and thatā€™s if there are no delays. And then thereā€™s the time change, jet lag, etc. I think thereā€™s a decent chance he moves to Europe later in life, but he did not feel ready quite yet.

He was also concerned about the difficulty of changing courses; heā€™s at a LAC, which has the flexibility he was looking for on that front.

He does have a couple of friends in school in Ireland who are very happy, so as others have noted, itā€™s really about the individual kid, their personality, etc.

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51

Assuming a no financial aid situation, for a dual citizen (Canada) are American private colleges worth the steep price tag compared to top tier Canadian universities?

52

No individual but yourself can answer that. Thatā€™s subjective and what another family would think might be very different than what you think.

Whether one goes to Harvard or Toronto, Western Ontario or Cornell, thereā€™s no assurances in life, especially for the hard to get jobs you are hoping for.

If one is looking for a financial ROI, any family is taking a risk when spending. Of course, the schools will tell you there is no risk because itā€™s an investment.

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53

This might be a very tough $400,000 question. This was our situation.

This is going to depend upon your budget, your priorities, and can be a very difficult judgement decision. There are very small number of people for whom spending $400,000 per child for a bachelorā€™s degree is not a problem at all. However, this is quite rare. Most of us need to care to some extent what we spend on university.

It also might not be a bad idea for a young student to understand that in life we sometimes are constrained by finances. This lesson might be easier to apply when some very good affordable options are available.

Some private universities in the US offer some merit aid. Many of the most famous and highly ranked universities in the US do not.

Some families qualify for need based financial aid. Some do not.

The most famous Canadian universities (Toronto, McGill, UBC, Waterloo) are large. Some students want a smaller school.

Canada however has a few very good small primarily undergraduate universities. Since we live in the northeast of the US, we looked at the ones in eastern Canada. We specifically toured Acadia, Bishopā€™s, Mount Allison, St Francis Xavier, and just did a drive by or quick visit at UNB, U. PEI, and Mount St. Vincent. We liked all of these, and particularly the first four. When one daughter was accepted to all four with merit aid, we had significant trouble deciding between them. Actually as parents we decided that all were very good and all were very affordable, and our daughter decided. I think that she made the right decision for her, but the others would have been very good also.

Our kids by the way did not look at anything further west than Montreal. There are of course some very good universities, big ones and little ones, further west.

She got a very good education, found great research opportunities, and got to know her professors. All of this was very helpful when she was looking for a job (references do matter, having the ability to describe in detail the research that you have done can be very helpful). Now she is studying at a very good private university in the US, but since it is for a PhD her studies are fully funded.

And if you save money for a bachelorā€™s degree, this can be helpful to subsidize either a sibling, or graduate study, or a bit of both.

Graduating with no debt can open up opportunities for a recent graduate that they might otherwise not be able to take advantage of. Some ā€œfirst jobsā€ can for example be great experience for the student, but not pay all that well.

For most of us my personal opinion is that the expensive private universities in the US are in most cases only going to be worth the cost if you can get significant financial aid one way or another, or for a graduate degree. Other families make different choices. Some special circumstances could change the decision for some students.

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54

Just to briefly continue my musings, this to me again parallels the discussion of whether no-merit US privates are worth it as compared to an in-state flagship. While that is a discussion worth having, I do think for some kids/families who find neither of those solutions optimal, it can make sense to explore ā€œthird wayā€ alternativesā€“privates with merit, publics with merit, publics that are not on the traditional flagship model, and so on.

And so to the extent Canada has institutions not on Toronto/McGill/UBC/flagship model, that is adding to the list of alternatives potentially worth considering in such cases. Of course there is nothing wrong with someone just wanting to go to a university like that. But if that is not really what they want, it is good to know there are alternatives besides just merit-less privates.

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55

This is my personal opinion too. I think we would be better off if he goes to school in Canada and keeps the money for the most part. Then I will pay for the masters in the United States.

I think some universities in America might be worth it, but I need to think of each university he is applying to on an individual basis.

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56

What makes one better than another, especially if grad school is in the offing?

What type of grad school?

Youā€™re buying into ā€œbrand strengthā€.

Is W Ontario a better name than say - UF? Or McGill a better name for grad school than U Minnesota ?

Is Waterloo going to position you much better than non-pedigree Willamette - which will come at a decent price (relative to US).

If grad school is the target, I think not one iota.

If itā€™s law or business (grad school), definitely not one iota.

Thatā€™s my opinion.

I think, if you plan to settle in the US, thereā€™s always a risk going to school outside. It doesnā€™t mean it canā€™t work but thereā€™s a risk.

And there are many price points here and many places to get a great education.

You are ā€œvaluingā€ a name and itā€™s certainly your right.

I would content, a personā€™s upbringing and socioeconomic status will have more to do with their success than a school name.

57

I think the differential is worth it
1/ if there are problems : for a bright, independent kid Canadian ā€œbrand nameā€ universities are going to be like UMichigan without football. But if anything happens - struggling with a class, something medical that requires faculty being understanding, anything that destabilizes - then there are way fewer nets to catch the student.
Part of the high US cost includes accomodations for various disabilities and professionals who can help, multiple tutors&tutoring centers, all sorts of ā€œon campusā€ things. Thereā€™s just a greater willingness to accommodate real issues in the US.
Itā€™s well-known getting into UToronto or McGill is relatively simple but that graduating is another matter entirely. Even though the students are topnotch, itā€™s common for them to fail a class, so the ability to roll with the punches and consider this a learning experience then retaking the class without feeling like a failure is essential. The possibility of a topnotch student failing out is higher since there fewer safeguards. Itā€™s going to be very unique to each child.
That being said the risks arenā€™t as high as in Europe.
2/ LACs with a 1:11 or 1:12 ratio are going to offer smaller classes, more personal contact, etc. than even the primarily-undergraduate Canadian institutions; some will offer significant merit scholarships so that the full pay US vs. full pay Canadian becomes a fallacy . In the end, if your choice is Acadia vs. Willamette at the same rough cost, it becomes a matter of personal preference.

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58

OP earlier mentioned global name recognition, Wall Street type finance and consulting as possible careers - with a CS or ECON and is wondering, if those global names might give an entry into those companies - or if not, how would employment back into the US happen?

Fair questionsā€¦and I imagine itā€™s a riskā€¦but itā€™s also a risk to go to Harvard and assume youā€™re going to get into Goldman Sachs or Mckinsey too.

OC listed these schools - and Iā€™d imagine for 99% of jobs here, the names would either be unknown to most HR or wouldnā€™t matter (Oxford and Cambridge) or might even bring a - why would they be applying to this job (like they are too good for it).

Of course, OP might be looking for that 1% job.

ā€œTrinity College Dublin, LSE, Imperial, UCL, KCL, Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrewā€™s, University of Edinburgh, Boconni, etc are top notch.ā€

59

Am I wrong in assuming many of these top American multi nationals also recruit at the top Canadian universities. If one is placed then they can move internally to the US. Alternately one can do a masters here in the US and hope to secure a job with them.

I am not ruling out American universities altogether. Instead evaluating each one critically on a case by case basis. My sonā€™s not going to make the Ivy leagues here. He has a non zero chance on the tier below that. Itā€™s a case by case decision and I think in most cases a tough decision.

Of the foreign universities (non Canadian) where my sonā€™s chances are non zero I think only LSE is worth it. The others it is not clear if as a non citizen he will get placed.

Also for Wall Street jobs college recruiting is not the only pathway in. There is a whole industry of recruiters that works with these firms.

60

My son had a lot of fun in Germany during the summer and is very keen on studying in Europe. With Boconni and IE being top picks.

I am just not sure what the employment prospect would be for a non citizen upon graduation. Also not clear what staring salaries are out of school. So I am not encouraging this.

The only foreign university where I am comfortable with the risk is LSE.