Our US son has a great experience attending Oxford - loved it there. Spent four years reading Maths & CS and received his undergraduate masters (MMathCompSci). Cost wise, I thing we came out ahead as we are a full pay family. Caught one of the downdrafts in the GBP and moved a bunch of money over which helped a lot. Average all-in cost was roughly $50k per year (2017-2021).
Permanent job was no issue as Oxford Math & CS grads are highly recruited - one of the few areas. The trading firm that hired him sponsored him for a skilled worker visa that allowed him to stay in the UK after graduation. I believe that there is also another UK visa program that allows certain students to stay and work for two years after graduation.
Summer internships were more challenging. Because Trinity term is on a later schedule than the US spring semester, he wasnât able to participate in traditional US programs. Used connections to get bespoke internships his first two summers. His last summer was unique in that he was already home in the US for Trinity due to Covid. Got a traditional US internship but it was rough as his internship started before his exams were over. He was working his internship, studying for exams (which are substantial at the end of 3rd year at Oxford) and on some days had to get up at 4am for his exams and then work a full day.
But at the end, I think he was very happy with his choice.
Two places where âprestigeâ of your undergraduate university matters might be investment banking and high end management consulting. However, something keeps popping into my head when high school students aim for these sorts of jobs: Years ago I had a friend who graduated from MIT with a degree in mathematics, then graduated from Harvard Law School and passed the bar exam. He went to work for a high end New York law firm. He lasted one week. He couldnât stand it. He found it to be pretentious and stressful. He quite his job, went back to university and got a masterâs degree, and started a different career where he did very well. However, his family could afford all of those degrees without taking on debt and without any hardship. Perhaps his familyâs economic status plus his high grades with a math degree gave him options, and he took advantage of one of his options after first trying something else.
The moral of the story might be to be careful what you wish for. These jobs might be a great fit for some people. I donât think that investment banking or high end management consulting or a Wall Street quant job would be a fit for me.
And I do not know how a high school student can know what career is going to be a good fit for them. Just finding a university that will be a good fit for four years seems tough enough.
I have wondered if you get a bachelorâs degree from your average in-state public university and then a masterâs degree from Harvard or Stanford whether anyone will care anymore where you got your bachelorâs degree. I think that most employers wonât, but âmostâ might not be the same thing as âallâ.
Are you comparing e.g. 6-year graduation rates? Or do you have some other data to support this? I ask because 6-year graduation rates are not always the best way to measure âdifficultyâ of a school.
Exactly.
I would expect that students out of Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and LSE including internationals have no issue issue being placed.
I think the placement issue occurs a tier just below that?
But is everyone placed ? You noted your student isnât top shelf academically ?
There are haves and have nots at every school. Even the elites.
Assuming Oxbridge graduates can easily get placed looks to be inaccurate.
My son is currently top ten percentile academically. Very well rounded too. Plays hockey and does a bunch of other stuff. Lots of international experience.
There are kids ahead of him academically. But at least some of them are ahead academically only because they did courses over the summer.
We donât make our kids do school over the summer. They travel and have other experiences.
To make ivys etc acceptance rates are 2-3 percent.
This very much depends on the student too. Another thread has stories of Oxford graduates battling to find work. In a couple of them, the sense of entitlement comes through - they think they should be easily able to find a job because they went to Oxford. I doubt many employers want to hire employees who feel entitled to get things.
There are no footnotes about who did what when on applications, especially for UK universities. They see courses and grades.
For readers of this thread who have not seen it, some discussion of OPâs sons chances for LSE on this thread: LSE and Imperial College
He needs to first get in before the rest of the discussion about placement is necessary. And as noted in the previous thread, UK universities donât care about sports etc ECs.
Not all engineering specialties look for ABET, and not all engineers take the PE or qualifying (FE) exams. For civil engineering? Yes, it may be required although my daughter works with a guy who has had his PE for years and has never even stamped a plan (she was so excited to do so she did it the first day she could). My nephew, a mechanical engineer, hasnât taken and doesnât plan to take the PE exam. His wife, a water (division of civil) did take the exam, but had a masterâs degree and waited a few years (and had a job) before she did.
Stanford has let its ABET certificates lapse in several specialties, and I donât think Stanford grads are having problems getting jobs. I think you can sit for the PE exam without having graduated from an ABET program, but it takes some additional steps.
This is not correct. Before getting one needs to apply. Application is not as simple as submitting a transcript. One has to do tests like TMUA etc which take a lot of work.
If the post graduate placement prospects are not good, there is no need to apply and go through the trouble of preparing for these entrance exams.
Placement prospects are not guaranteed anywhere. Not every graduate of an elite university gets to walk into any job they want. He needs to not only get into LSE, but be able to be among the top x% of students graduating there for the kind of âplacementâ you seem to be talking about. If he is barely meeting the minimum to get in, that doesnât really bode well for that outcome. Thatâs not to say he wonât get employed of course, but one should be realistic about where.
Yes, Ivies have low acceptance rates - a bit higher than that - but a lot also depends on who is applying.
Going to school over the summer doesnât necessarily improve your rank.
I was just noting that even at Harvard, youâve still got to be at the top to get into those elite clubs/jobs, etc.
Thatâs all.
Iâm sure your kid is great.
Just curious - is your student of the same mindset as you or are you just doing this for yourself? In other words, are they looking to get into these high echelon jobs, etc?
Have you done a chance me yet? Iâm not sure what you consider a âtopâ school - but there are top 40 schools here under $50K. Others, like near top tier LACs with merit possibilities.
And then others that are Wall Street feeders - that have merit.
You are looking at a respectable cost - and I donât know what that means - but what if you student doesnât get into one of the name brand overseas - or decides they want to stay here.
There are schools beyond Ivy.
Yes, I noted but as OP noted, the major and niche and sure enough thereâs only 30 accredited. Itâs just a baseline to look at. As you note, some schools - W&L as an example - donât try for certification.
Some jobs require ABET - others donât.
Nonetheless, the student is seeking employment in CanadaâŠso the landscape there will be different.
My sonâs perspective, Oxford has a terrible career placement program. Lots of reverse inquiry for math students, so there is a special career fair for just for them. For everyone else, you are sort of own your own. Plus for a lot of other more âtraditionalâ degree programs, there seems to be an expectation at Oxford that your future lies in academia, so they donât put much effort into helping with career placement.
Last year my son wanted to go to Georgetown. He had a great time in Germany so he now wants to go to Bocconi or IE. I am going to send him to one on those schools next year for a summer program.
Great way to learn more about them!!
Yep, kids change - my son went through four majors Junior and Senior year in HS - although stayed witht he last one all through college.
My worry with this path is the placement situation. I donât have an issue sending him to these schools. My worry is the placement situation.
Can you provide me some names in the US? I can research them and add them to the list.
Thatâs a worry at US colleges too - even the elites.
You canât fight an economy - but now you add in the placement part.
Youâre making an assumption on recruiters and companies hire from those schools. What if they hire 1 - 3, etc.
But you can go to school here and not get placed.
My kid at College of Charleston placed (this year) right away (actually late last year). My son at Alabama was placed by Christmas - with many offers.
Yet you have UVA, Ga Tech, UNC and likely Ivy kids this year canât find jobs.
So thatâs another thingâŠa name assures nothing - and itâs more than the school - itâs the major and as weâre seeing now, itâs techology and the economy.
Youâre betting up front on four years later and thatâs always an unknown.
And if the student would think about business school later as you noted, a top one isnât happening without two years of solid work experience - the undergrad will be irrelevant but the work experience is a must.
But the journey will never be fully defined and your financial ROI will be an unknown until many years from now.
We all face that unfortunately.
itâs why I gave my kids budgets. It was at the aforementioned Gtown that I learned there was colleges that gave no merit aid. That night in the hotel, we eliminated all the Ivies and then some. I wasnât spending more than $50K a year - I just didnât see the value. The top ranked school mine got into (W&L) was $81K if I recall - out it went just for thatâŠbut she applied as achieving $50K was possible with merit.
Whether my decision to limit the spend up front was right or not, I donât know - but it was right for me.
I didnât see the ROI.
I did see the ROI at Purdue engineering but my son turned them down because he got his own room and shared bath with one kid and he told me - rankings are for magazines to sell and parents - real companies donât care. In his field, he was correct as he was hired alongside Purdue, Michigan and other top schools but also the W Michigans, Utahs, and Akrons, etc. and they all made the same.
Itâs really an unknown - Iâm not a believer in school A Iâll pay $80K and school B $50K but some are. I set a max and my kid could spend up to it (and yet neither did, but thatâs just luck 