So what’s the real scoop with the CTCL schools? CC is filled with praise for CTCL schools like Denison, but then there’s nothing for a school like Lynchburg. Is it because the CTCL schools vary so greatly with selectivity? For instance:
Lynchburg:
Average SAT composite score: 1120
Average ACT score: 23
These are significant differences, and a student matched for Denison would not be the same student matched for Lynchburg. I guess I’m trying to figure the value CTCL brings and how best to use it as a source.
@allyphoe But that’s my point - those considering Denison are not going to consider Lynchburg. They fit a different academic profile. Plus, Denison is well known and well discussed, while Lynchburg is not discussed at all.
It’s a catchy title to get people to buy their books. All colleges have the ability to change lives. The colleges in the book are mostly small, private, LAC located in the NE and Midwest. If that is what you are looking for great, but I wouldnt put the book on a pedestal.
It doesn’t assume that every student is going to have the same academic profile, so no, all the schools won’t be a match for everyone.
I think it’s a good resource for finding schools you might not have thought of, as long as you are not obsessed with the big name (seems to be a tough sell around here) and most of them offer great merit aid.
Loren Pope wrote the CTCL book, he died over a decade ago. I don’t think the CTCL schools or administrative organization receive profits from book sales (and it hasn’t been updated since 2013).
It really just seems like a loose association, kind of like the public LAC association. The schools are known for offering solid educations, attracting a diverse set of students, providing good financial aid (and many stack FA).
IMO CTCL is a marketing tool that came out of a book written long ago. It is a way for a number of small schools to get their names out there as a group.
While you may get some college ideas from the CTCL book, IMO each CTCL school must be researched independently to determine the fit/appropriateness for any given student. There are many sources other than the CTCL book that you can use to research individual schools (the college’s website, the common data set, other guide books etc.).
And yes, of course any college can change a person’s life.
I read the book when my son was looking. Pope explains, in it, why the schools that are there, are there. It’s not only about selectivity, though uber-selective schools aren’t included.
The colleges in it are all over the country, not just any one or two regions. They are all LACs and the reason for that is clear in the book intro - teaching undergraduates is integral to the philosophy.
If you look up the book on Amazon you can read the first few pages.
With respect to the book, it might be interesting to consider the ambitious subtitle as well: 40 Schools that Will Change the Way You Think About Colleges.
It’s another list of schools to pick through and a marketing association for some not-crazy-selective LACs. We found it helpful for one of our kids who was looking for an LAC and needed a lot of merit aid to make it happen. She applied to several CTCL schools (no, not all in the list were good fits for her) and recently graduated from one of them. I doubt we would have found it without the CTCL label. She had a great LAC experience there, studied abroad twice, and landed a great job after graduation. The school was as described in the marketing materials and turned out to be a good fit for my kid.
I agree with others here that the CTCL book can be a useful reference if your child is interested in LACs. Reading the descriptions can give you ideas about the schools included as well as questions you might want to ask about any school you are considering. I read it cover to cover, but then I also read the Fiske Guide, the Insider’s Guide and the Princeton Review guide more or less cover to cover with respect to the LACs included in those guides. As I recall, Lauren Pope’s original goal was to identify schools with acceptance rates above 50% that offer an excellent and highly-personalized education, places where kids could grow. (Maybe the book’s most important purpose is reminding parents that such places do exist!) The list has changed somewhat over time - I read that Grinnell and Franklin and Marshall were both on the original list but dropped off as they became more competitive. Other schools like Denison and Reed presumably they see some benefit in staying in.
“Marketing” is used in this thread with a negative connotation. Instead of viewing marketing as a negative gimmick, we can choose to view it as a necessary component of spreading the word about a good product. What good is a great sprocket if it’s made 2000 miles from me and has a weak distribution network? About as useful as a college that might be great for my child but I’ve never heard of.
Not every college in Fiske (and USNWR and other lists) is a good fit for every student. No one pretends that a student should apply to both MIT and St John’s College. And no one should expect every college in CTCL to be a fit for every student. That’s the wrong approach to any college guide. The guides present us with descriptions, and it’s up to each reader make proper use of each description.
My son and I have identified several colleges in CTCL that would be a fit for him. Much less than half, but a sizeable amount. I only wish I had come across (and actually started reading) the book earlier in the process. There are a couple of colleges that look like a good fit that we didn’t get the chance to apply to. But he’s already been accepted to one (the only CTCL college to respond so far) and with a very generous FinAid package.
Don’t forget, the Smokey The Bear campaign was a marketing gimmick also. That doesn’t mean it did not serve a very worthy purpose.
As others have said, the book written many years ago by Loren Pope was very limited in the colleges described and mentioned. It’s not a big fat college guide. Also, much has changed from those years.
Look at it as a first step, a sampler of some schools that may not be first on your list to check out, and work from there. I’m sure many more schools belong on the list. Look at ones nearby that are hidden gems.
The CTCL web site does include Lynchburg commentary. Do check it out
Lynchburg was the perfect school for two people I know, but it does not have the more general appeal of Denison, IMO. There is a very strong religious climate there, though not as pervasive as a number of evangelical schools. It’s certainly not like those schools that are religious in heritage and history only. Because it is a very small college.’, and the Church if Christ presence is so very strong, a large number of students I know felt it was just not for them.
I think the difference can be explained simply by the fact that CC overwhelmingly skews to higher selective/higher stat schools. Part of that is probably just self selection of the active posters. Schools with a 23ACT average are a minor part of CC discussions, whether on CTCL or not.
I am a graduate of a CTCL school, though the original book was not published until after I earned my degree. The book is a minor classic in the college guidebook canon. Pope is biased (he doesn’t understand why anyone wouldn’t attend a LAC), but he’s also passionate, and that passion is infectious and winning. He was in his 80s when he wrote Looking Beyond the Ivy League and Colleges that Change Lives.
Back to the OP’s original question. The midwest is a treasure trove of LACs, which is why the schools from this region are represented most in the book. The south is the next biggest region. The other areas (southwest, northwest, east) have slimmer pickings.
CTCL schools that pretty much never get mentioned here: Emory & Henry, Antioch, Millsaps, Hendrix, Guilford, Birmingham-Southern, Austin College, Southwestern U, Lynchburg.
Why do some get mentioned but not others? Denison is probably not a great example, as Denison has always had pretty strong name recognition–for a LAC, that is. My guess? Location. Midwesterners have lots of LAC options close by, and students from the Great Plains states and further west are more likely to choose a midwestern LAC than a non-FL southern LAC. The midwestern LACs are also pretty similar to their east coast cousins, but they’re often less selective and $10-15K cheaper. Plus, students who are used to the four seasons (or students who wish to experience the four seasons) can do so at an east coast or midwestern LAC. Result: midwestern CTCL schools get mentioned a lot on this site.
@EconPop I don’t think (or certainly I didn’t intend) to use “marketing” with a negative connotation. In fact I think it is smart for the group of small LACs to band together for some events so they can all get the word out. My point, and I believe the point of others was that each CTCL college is different and once a person thinks a CTCL school might be a good fit further research on that particular institution is needed. I would not take inclusion on the CTCL list as “proof” that a particular college is the right fit for any given student.
@happy1 , regarding my one-size-doesn’t-fit-all comments were directed toward the OP’s comparison of Denison and Lynchburg.
Sorry about the “marketing” miss. I’m a big stickler for misleading marketing and I myself have a love/hate relationship with marketing, and I misread (or projected) the hint of marketing disdain in your comment.
@Hapworth My parents met at Knox College way before CTCL was a thing. They both ended up getting PhDs and becoming college professors. Both were the type of students who could benefit from attending a LAC, but for different reasons. My mom needed a scholarship, was a stellar high school student, and grew up near Knox. My dad had a patchy academic record with evidence that he could excel under the right circumstances.
In any case, I think Pope’s legacy was teasing out what factors allow the CTCL schools to take students without perfect grades and scores and allow them to become very successful college graduates. He zeroed in on individual relationships with professors and opportunities to participate in research projects/internships.
I am a Knox grad. I usually don’t mention this unless it’s directly relevant. If there’s a CTCL-related thread, or if someone is looking for LACs that give significant merit, I’ll typically name other CTCL schools (Beloit, Kalamazoo, Wooster) to make my point, as I don’t want to be accused of selling my school.
But, yeah, your post basically nails it. There are students at places like Beloit or Lawrence or Ohio Wesleyan that are very high-achieving; some were admitted to more selective schools but could not afford them. There are other students, like your dad, who needed what a good solid LAC could provide (it sounds, maybe, that I was like your dad; I was a bright but apathetic student in high school). I appreciate that LACs fight the good fight and create an environment for those students that care deeply about learning. Sure, there are drawbacks (I’m concerned about the lack of diversity of thought on many LAC campuses), and not every student wants a small residential college, but I continue to be an unabashed LAC fanboy on this site.
I think the book was written to highlight some schools that may not get lots of attention, have an admit rate at 50% or higher, punch above their weight in giving students a solid education, and generally provide the kind of attention that turns B students into passionate learners and, ultimately accomplished in academia or the professional world. Some of the schools are better known than others. It’s become an association of sorts. Since they tend to be out of the way, they are often, as @Hapworth indicates, 10-15K cheaper than the more famous LAC in the midwest and east coast, and they often provide solid merit aid, which is a boon to middle-class “donut-hole” families that don’t have a lot saved up for college.
This list is not exhaustive. There are other, excellent, small LAC with similar characteristics.
I started a thread a while ago to broden the list: