<p>What is your opinion of these colleges? Here’s the official site <a href=“http://www.ctcl.org%5B/url%5D”>www.ctcl.org</a> and here’s the wikipedia link [Colleges</a> That Change Lives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleges_That_Change_Lives]Colleges”>Colleges That Change Lives - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Is it worth going to these colleges as they have very little international recognition? Also, how successful are these colleges in sending students to grad school?</p>
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I suppose it depends on whether you plan to work in Uzbekistan after graduation.</p>
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For the most part, extremely successful. Pope discusses that at length in his book.</p>
<p>These schools have fantastic Grad School and Proffesional school recognition, in addition to having more regional job recognition. Despite the regional reputation, these school usually have nearly 100% of of graduates employed or furthering their education with in 6 months of employment.</p>
<p>CTLC schools may not have super selectivity, but they will give you the same or even better educations, that are more personal then the super selective “elite” group of colleges. They teach students critical thinking, logic and reasoning, good writing skills and how to change and adapt. All of these are extremely important skills. I know many grads in town of school mentioned in the book where I live (I know people who have gone to Lawrence, Beloit, Knox, St. Olaf, Wheaton and Hope) and all are very smart people with very successful careers in the field they chose.</p>
<p>If you look at PhD production rate by undergrad college, unsurprisingly many of the top producers are mentioned in his book Reed, Kalamazoo, St. Johns College, Earlham, Beloit, Lawrence, St. Olaf, Hendrix, Knox, Wooster, Whitman, Wabash, Wheaton (IL) are all top 50 PhD producers, LACs and Universities combined. Of course take away fields such as Engineering, that LACs don’t offer and there rankings climb higher.</p>
<p>People often confuse prestige and selectivity with quality, but that it not always the case. All in all, Loren Pope’s Forty and many others he was not able to mention, all provide top notch education to both 4.0/2400s to people who may have struggled with a C average.</p>
<p>My main aim is to get a PhD in Economics.
If I get my undergraduate degree from(say Knox) then will I be treated as on the same level as a student from Amherst or Swarthmore during admission to grad school, or will the students from Amherst and Swarthmore have a better shot?</p>
<p>Its a nice idea in concept, but for better or for worse “reputation” and name recognition still matters more than anything else.</p>
<p>^ Perhaps, but only for people who care about that. For someone with a specific goal, schools that best prepare for that goal should be considered.</p>
<p>These undergrad schools produced the highest percentages of future PhDs in economics, first posted by interesteddad:</p>
<p>PhDs in Economics per 1000 grads</p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>
<p>Number of Graduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database</p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period </p>
<p>1 Swarthmore College 16
2 Grinnell College 7
3 Williams College 7
4 Carleton College 7
5 Harvard University 6
6 Agnes Scott College 6
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5
8 University of Chicago 5
9 Yale University 5
10 California Institute of Technology 5
11 Princeton University 5
12 Macalester College 5
13 Stanford University 4
14 Pomona College 4
15 Oberlin College 4
16 Wellesley College 4
17 Trinity University 4
18 Bowdoin College 3
19 Earlham College 3
20 Berea College 3
21 Amherst College 3
22 Wabash College 3
23 Bard College 3
24 Rocky Mountain College 3
25 Coe College 3
26 Wesleyan University 3
27 College of William and Mary 3
28 Colby College 3
29 Columbia University in the City of New York 3
30 Hillsdale College 3
31 Franklin and Marshall College 3</p>
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</p>
<p>If you believe the posted data supports that conclusion, would you then say that Swarthmore College does a three-fold better job of preparing its undergraduates for the goal of a PhD in Economics than the University of Chicago?</p>
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</p>
<p>Despite what others wish to think, Name recognition is not a huge part of grad school. If you look at where Knox’s grads go for PhDs (which can be found in their viewbook they send out and I specifically asked the Adcom when I visited) they are going to the top schools such as HYS, Columbia, Chicago, UCLA, etc. If you can maintian the grades, get a good test score, faculty at Knox would be very happy and willing to help you participate in research which is another essential part of grad school. They have many ways for undergrads to get there name on papers and projects.</p>
<p>Econ grad schools want students with a lot of math. I suggest making sure that the schools you look at offer the math courses you’ll need. (They probably do, but you should make sure.)</p>
<p>“If you believe the posted data supports that conclusion, would you then say that Swarthmore College does a three-fold better job of preparing its undergraduates for the goal of a PhD in Economics than the University of Chicago?”</p>
<p>No, there are too many other factors involved. Interesteddad may have some insight. Perhaps Swat offers fewer majors, or is even more self-selecting. I think these lists are more useful for identifying schools rather than ranking them.</p>
<p>don’t forget that there are many more “colleges that change lives” outside of the ones listed in the book. The colleges in the book are a good place to start but by no means is it comprehensive</p>
<p>“No, there are too many other factors involved. Interesteddad may have some insight. Perhaps Swat offers fewer majors, or is even more self-selecting. I think these lists are more useful for identifying schools rather than ranking them.”</p>
<p>Agreed. </p>
<p>As far as the ‘colleges that change lives’ it is what it is - a short list of colleges the author believes set themselves apart with (seemingly) a core factor being overlooked schools (at least before the book came out). That said, I think the author would be hard pressed to discuss the merits of how St. Olaf’s College changes lives more than Carleton College (of which both in the same town).</p>
<p>ctyankee, I think Carleton is an amazing school for the right student, but it is very different than St. Olaf. It is comparing apples and oranges. I can see St. Olaf as a college that will change lives because of its atmosphere and culture. They have a mix of students at different grade levels, although their selectivity has risen lately. Carleton is basically an Amherst in the midwest. Both are outstanding colleges for the right fit. I recently visited both schools and there is no question that St. Olaf would be a much better fit for my daughter.</p>
<p>I can easily see someone choose St. Olaf over Carleton. The schools are very different, but both are very strong academically, with excellent grad, law and med school acceptance rates. I don’t see how St. Olaf is a “worse institution” then carleton. Is it because St. Olaf accepts 50% of students, while Carleton accept 25%? Or maybe Carleton’s Average ACT is 31.5 while St. Olaf averages a 29?</p>
<p>I see very little difference between the academic quality of the two schools, the difference is really just the environment.</p>
<p>Here are a few things you may not have known about St. Olaf:</p>
<p>-According to the National Science Foundation’s Survey of Earned Doctorates, St. Olaf ranks 8th overall among the nation’s 213 baccalaureate (Liberal Arts Colleges) colleges in the number of graduates who go on to earn doctoral degrees.</p>
<p>-St. Olaf has had nine Rhodes Scholars. Since 1996, the college has produced more Rhodes Scholars than any other liberal arts college in the nation. Two St. Olaf seniors were selected in the 2008 awards competition. Over the past two decades, only two other liberal arts colleges (Williams and Wellesley) have had the honor of having two selections in a single year.</p>
<p>-Two St. Olaf students were named Fulbright Scholars for 2009–10. Since 1993, 72 St. Olaf students have received prestigious Fulbright scholarships. </p>
<p>-26 St. Olaf students have received Goldwater scholarships since 1995. The scholarships, which are granted to sophomores and juniors in mathematics, science and engineering, are selected on the basis of academic merit.</p>
<p>Now what is were you saying about St. Olaf ctyankee?</p>
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</p>
<p>And you don’t see any reason why certain schools would be more desirable or more selective than others? I’m not going to say this is specifically the case with these two schools, as I am not familiar with St. Olaf, but it is a well-known fact that the best professors gravitate towards the best schools, which are those with the best resources, funding, and compensation. Carleton is a top five LAC for a reason.</p>
<p>If you look at the Backgrounds of all the professors at St. Olaf and other CTLC colleges, you will find that nearly all come from top Ivies, Stanford, Mich, Berkely, UCLA, etc. Just take a peek in the back of the class guide, its all there.</p>
<p>ok let me take a better example than the St. Olaf - Carleton example</p>
<p>Truman State University and St. Mary’s College of Maryland are just as good for “changing lives” as St. Olaf. However, Truman State and SMCM are not in the “Colleges That Change Lives” book.</p>
<p>St. Mary’s College of Maryland is in the book.</p>
<p>not in the most recent version:</p>
<p>[CTCL</a> Northeast Region | Colleges That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/northeast]CTCL”>http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/northeast)</p>
<p>I own a copy of the 2000 version that it is included in.</p>