<p>An ad hominem (Latin: “to the man”), short for argumentum ad hominem,
is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative
characteristic or belief of the person advocating it.[1] The ad
hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2] but it is not
always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct,
character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[3]</p>
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<p>You ought to try it sometime. You have to be excruciatingly detail
oriented. Nothing makes mistakes faster than a misprogrammed computer.</p>
<p>how much relevance does being a victim of sexual assault or the unjustly accused of same have to logical process.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can see the forest for the trees.</p>
<p>I don’t expect to feel validated when I post on CC, but when I have shared painful details in an effort to expand others perspective, I don’t expect to feel negated.
:(</p>
<p>I haven’t wanted to say anything, but this element of the conversation has bothered me the most. You have very bravely told your story. You do not need to respond. This response you have recieved has been unbelievable to me. Please ignore it.</p>
<p>I agree with poetgrl. I’m a little shocked at parts of this thread, and I think anyone who has told their story and put themself out there in this context has a lot of courage.</p>
<p>I agree, poetgrl. EK, that did take a lot of courage. Not everything in this world is a question of logic and what argument would persuade a non-human.</p>
<p>In conversations about flashers, virtually every woman I’ve met has been confronted by one at some point. If men are around they are generally flabbergasted. Men, you just have no idea what it’s like to be a woman. Really. </p>
<p>I know of many fewer cases of friends who have been raped, but that’s because it was taboo for so long that few of us would have talked about it except to our very closest friends.</p>
<p>I dont think BC has superior logic. I think he quotes outlying surveys. I understand his concern re false accusations, but I dont think is credible evidence to support that it is teh problem he purports it is.</p>
<p>I think college girls are less likely to false press charges. They can generally get campus student health to deal with health issues, without running into police. Not as true for general population.</p>
<p>Another voice of support to EK. Not only did she bravely share her personal history only to get it devalued, but she posted a citation, as requested, only to get it devalued as well, and was told she should provide a better one. Really now. </p>
<p>And whats the point, bceagle, of talking to a bunch of humans about arguments with non-humans? Begs the response “huh??”</p>
<p>Lastly, as mathmom said, many of us had flasher experiences in our youth. I had 2. First was in elementary school walking to school. By the time it happened again in Jr HS or HS (I forget which), I had a snappy comeback that embarassed the snot out of the jerk who stopped his car ostensibly asking for directions. While I don’t personally feel like the victim of a sexual assault, I understand that others do, and agree that these incidents can fall into the definition. With respect to the first that occurred when I was in elementary school, I reportd it to my mother who called the police (guy was in a parked car and tried to attract our attention as we walked by. He did not try to get us to enter the car). I had to meet with the police and tell the school principal if I saw him/his car again, which I did. He was caught and arrested. I did not have to testify in court but they did take my statement. In restrospect, I look back and think I was a pretty brave little first grader.</p>
<p>Wow, you were a brave first grader, jym626. If I’d encountered a flasher at that age I would never have told anyone. I was upset enough when some guy flashed me when I was in college; it felt so creepy to have some guy try to involve me in his arousal.</p>
<p>EK, I’m so sorry about your experiences. It must have been horrible.</p>
<p>I’ve heard a lot of childhood stories from women in my generation. Is it less common now? I don’t know.</p>
<p>My sister was flashed on a New York City bus when she was 7 or 8. Fortunately, I don’t think she was terribly traumatized right when it happened, just confused; she thought it was some kind of thumb and didn’t understand why it was where it was. Once she realized what had happened, she was quite upset.</p>
<p>I have a good friend who was flashed as a child in a NYC public library. Apparently a not uncommon occurrence.</p>
<p>Another woman I know, in a much more serious incident, was attacked one day when she was about 13, while riding a bicycle home from school, by a slightly older (and apparently somewhat mentally disturbed) boy who dragged her off the bike and tried to rape her. She managed to fight him off and ran away. She did report it, and I think he ended up being sent somewhere.</p>
<p>What happened to me as a child was in private, by a doctor, so it’s a whole different story.</p>
<p>And, yes, there is something incredibly creepy about being made an involuntary party to somebody’s arousal. (I experienced something like that, not exactly flashing but close, while waiting to pick up food at a Chinese restaurant, of all places, a couple of years ago. Ew.)</p>
<p>My friend and I were flashed in 3rd grade walking home from school. The guy pulled up to the intersection right in front of us and just kept sitting there in his car, and I was like, “Why is this guy sitting there?” Suddenly, my friend screamed and grabbed me and started running and I ran with her.</p>
<p>We ran to my house. My mother had a way of making these things funny. Don’t ask. :eek: Anyway, my freind had seen him flashing us, but I’d been so annoyed he wasn’t moving I was just staring at this bald guy (not kidding) wearing glasses. </p>
<p>I had to identify him in the line-up. No problem, all I’d noticed was his face.</p>
<p>I didn’t feel assaulted, but I was with a freind and we saw my mom right away, and she made a bunch of ew-gross faces and a couple of jokes. Had I been alone, I don’t know how I would have felt. The other time I was flashed was by a guy driving in a pick up truck on the highway, (another bald guy, seriously), and again I had no idea what he was doing until my friend started to scream.</p>
<p>For all I know I may have been flashed other times, but as you can see, I don’t tend to notice. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I know this is going to cause a great deal of consternation here, but frankly I am getting tired of all this talk about how all woman are victims and somehow men should buy into this victimization theology. While some woman are constantly complaining about how unfairly they are treated by the male-dominated society, males are increasingly falling behind in almost every statistic. They graduate in far less numbers from high school, including both undergraduate and graduate schools, than woman. The numbers of men who are unemployed and ill-prepared for 21st jobs are growing at an alarming rate. Also, more men are ending up in prisons, another crisis gone unmentioned. Instead of obsessing about the occasional date rape (I still don’t believe it is an epidemic), let’s discuss the very real crisis of men being left behind in our society. We need organized lobbies to advocate for our gender instead of the constant harping of woman’s issues by the loud feminist groups.</p>
<p>Absolutely. A discussion of Subject A does nothing to prevent you from discussing Subject B. But not here. It’s called hijacking.</p>
<p>And there are plenty of so-called “men’s rights advocacy” groups, by the way. Instead of actually accomplishing anything or trying to accomplish anything to help all those boys who fall behind, they seem to spend most of their time talking about how men get screwed in divorce, and complaining about how “the feminists” have ruined everything. In other words, feeling sorry for themselves. You’d fit right in. Frankly.</p>
<p>Okay, don’t worry I don’t intend to hijack this absurd thread and I certainly don’t feel sorry for myself. Just trying to add perspective and common sense, which I feel some of you could use.</p>
<p>Not my intention to make fun of anyone or make nasty comments about any particular poster. I am certainly not directing my comments to any of the posters who revealed personal details of their lives. I am just getting frustrated with this underlying theme that men are predators who cannot be trusted. If I am getting the wrong message here, tell me where I am wrong.</p>
<p>Which part of this statement is either perspective or common sense? There is no perspective on this topic… only facts (at least the ones who are brave enough to report it). parent57, if I were in your shoes, I would take a step back and consider what you are claiming is perspective and/or common sense. There is still a LOT of shame attached to reporting sexual assault and I’m sure there are hundreds of women on CC who have had to deal with this before. To have you negate their experience only adds to the trauma.</p>