<p>Not that Jym is wrong, but the worst part about this is that people keep saying, “strawman argument.” :eek: which, for some reason, feels like nails on a chalkboard to me. Anyway, I knew everyone knew what I meant.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have two daughters. One in college and one who is still in high school. Both have gone through the self-defense class where they are attacked. It’s quite traumatic, in its own way, actually, that class. One boxes in her off-season to stay in shape, and one is almost a black belt.</p>
<p>The one who is almost a black belt had one of her best friends get ruffied at a party. Fortunately they practice the buddy system in her group, so they got the girl to the hospital immediately. An older boy was attempting to lead her upstairs at the time. She and several of her friends, including some guys, btw, went to get her before anything could happen.</p>
<p>I don’t care how many precautions you take, there are bad people and they do bad things and bad things cannot always be prevented and this is not the victim’s fault. Yes, you should be smart. But, honestly, I sometimes think people just want to believe they are smarter when really they’ve just been damn lucky.</p>
<p>ETA: Both of my daughters have a lot of friends who are guys and, you know, these are great guys. Over the years there have been the occaisonal guys the girls have said, “You know, there’s just something not right about that guy.” But, honestly, I just don’t see the world as a shark tank full of guys who can’t control themselves. The ones who are like this are not attracted to women, btw, they HATE them. fwiw</p>
<p>Apologies for the blackboard nails, poetgrl. I totally agree. Its just hard sometimes to let circular arguments go unaddressed. You know whay I mean.</p>
<p>One of them is male privilege, which is obviously what I was referring to, and includes the privilege of being clueless about what many women experience – at least when you close your ears. </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I have a graduate degree in computer science. Anyone familiar with the
degree would know that a prerequisite to going into a reputable CS
grad program would be an undergraduate discrete mathematics course or
two. The discrete methematics course covers formal logic in the forms
of propositional calculus and predicate calculus. Some people take
artificial intelligence as an elective course and this is a course
that I took a long time ago. The course that I took covered formal
logic systems in more detail including skolemization. It also covered
fuzzy logics and expert systems. I have built a commercial expert
system that went into production use.</p>
<p>I have Copi on my bookshelf and several books by Suppes. You should
know who they are if you’re versed in logic, debate and reasoning.
There’s my background.</p>
<p>What’s yours?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I will leave it to the others that have already commented on your
views.</p>
<p>Posting a fact is not a strawman argument. You can read into it
all kinds of things to bolster your argument. But that’s just your
interpretation. While you are entitled to your own interpretations,
you are not entitled to your own facts.</p>
<p>Was pulling the definition form several sites, bc. They say that the <<<fill in=“” name=“” of=“” figures=“” made=“” from=“” hay=“” that=“” is=“” causing=“” screeching=“” sounds=“” the=“” heads=“” all=“” readers=“” here=“”>>>> argument is the act of devaluing the other person’s argument with the goal of gaining superiority or knocking down the other person’s. If you use a “fact” to do it, so what. End result is the same – your beloved <<<<<< fill in name of figure causing posters run with their hands over their ears>>>>>>> is still the process you use.</fill></p>
<p>As for all the mathematical logic classes. Better to practice “logic” with human figures, not numerical figures. JMO</p>
<p>I’ve done both. I’ve written huge amounts of code and have been in
huge numbers of discussions, some going on for thousands of posts
and lasting multiple months.</p>
<p>I do this sort of debating in person too.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Well, when people jump on me, then I go into debating mode.</p>
<p>All of us have felt jumped on at one time or another around here. Its not fun.
I am going back to the diet and exercise thread. Over there, discussions about sparring are associated with exercise and weight loss!</p>
<p>LOL. I’ve been jumped on on CC. I was jumped on after my very first post. Of course, looking back, I completely deserved it. I made some smartypants comment about wait lists. Then I got pummeled. :p</p>
<p>I look back on it fondly, now, for some reason.</p>
<p>Bceagle- all I am going to say is you are being ridiculous. I don’t think you even know what you are debating about. </p>
<p>Just for the record, I hate it when people use “straw man argument,” like, what the h*l does that mean. Is that what people say when they run out of good come back?</p>
<p>A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]</p>
<p>What are my qualifications, BCEagle? A law degree from Harvard and more than 30 years of litigation experience, “debating” for a living, in writing and orally, against some of the best lawyers in the country. In other words, experience in real life. And, of course, I generally have to argue in a way that persuades a neutral third party. In other words, I have to do more than impress myself with my own rhetoric and then pat myself in the back for being so wonderful. I’m surprised you haven’t strained a muscle yet.</p>
<p>I do too. But that third party is often non-human.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]</p>
<p>DonnaL, I’m a big fan of yours, but I simply cannot agree with your earlier statement that virtually all women have been the victims of “sexual assault.” (I’m paraphrasing here.)</p>
<p>It MAY be true that virtually all women have had a guy make a pass that they weren’t interested in that may have included some physical contact, or that virtually all women have had a guy try to, as the saying goes, “cop a feel” at some point, but I really do not think that the majority of women would say that they felt “assaulted” by these actions. I think that academics toting up statistics would define these actions as “assaults,” but most women would not. </p>
<p>This is not to say that there are not actions that stop short of rape that are indeed “assault” and go far beyond annoyance. But they are far more rare.</p>
<p>BTW, I rode the Tube in London quite frequently as a nubile young teen and again in my 20s, and rode the NYC subway on a daily basis in my 20s and 30s. I also used to hitchhike around the Boston area with friends in the 70s. I was never groped or pinched or whatever. I’ve also never had a guy expose himself to me. (Well, when I was at the U of C some guys mooned everyone in the outdoor eating area, but I don’t count that. ) Maybe I just wasn’t attractive enough?</p>
<p>No. Reaching around to pat yourself on the back.</p>
<p>I’m not surprised that your goal is generally to persuade a non-human.</p>
<hr>
<p>Consolation, I think you’ve just been lucky. “Attractiveness” has nothing to do with it. although I’m sure that you were and are an attractive woman! After all, I’m 56 years old and have had that kind of thing happen to me, even though for the most part I have the benefit of middle-aged invisibility. </p>
<p>Consider that poor 85-year old woman who was just assaulted on the Upper East Side and forced to perform oral sex on her attacker. Ugh.</p>
) Maybe I just wasn’t attractive enough?</p>