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<p>I just want to clarify, because I cannot imagine you mean that a girl who goes on a date with a young man and is raped has “put herself in a situation where this could happen.” I mean, at that point what you are saying is that no young men can be trusted? </p>
<p>Or, a girl who is ruffied?</p>
<p>Or, a girl who …?</p>
<p>This is the type of “blame the victim” thing I’m sure you did not intend to imply.</p>
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<p>I asked for it but I don’t believe that it exists. I put out the only data that I’m aware of.</p>
<p>I actually don’t expect other posters to post data because I don’t believe that there is any. And from that we only have two studies which are relatively old but that’s all we have.</p>
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<p>One of the Dirty Harry movies provided another option.</p>
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<p>Perhaps no person can be trusted.</p>
<p>My daughter ran into a stalker type and I gave her advice on how to deal with him including calling campus security if she felt threatened. One of her professors noticed his behavior and walked out of class with her when he was waiting for her. I was quite willing to confront the guy. She just ran out the clock though as his grades weren’t good enough to stay on.</p>
<p>Someone can seem friendly but there are some advantages to seeing the parents, environment that the person grew up in and how people act under pressure that can help better form an opinion of a person. Yeah, that can go out the window with teenagers and hormones. It’s also hard to do in a college environment.</p>
<p>If a person actually meets the parents of a girl, is he more or less likely to do a date rape? That would make for an interesting study.</p>
<p>A friend of a friend is a gun guy and my friend told me that he has an arsenal in his basement (it’s probably legal up here in NH). My friend was going to confront some teenagers that had stolen something from his son and the friend of a friend offered to show up as “backup”. I don’t think that any kid that knew the dad would mess around with his daughter.</p>
<p>If a person actually meets the parents of a girl, is he more or less likely to do a date rape? That would make for an interesting study.
That shouldn’t be an issue.</p>
<p>My daughter ran into a stalker type and I gave her advice on how to deal with him including calling campus security if she felt threatened.</p>
<p>The problems with stalkers though is that they can’t usually be picked up & if they are, they are often released right away. & then you run the risk of getting them more ****ed off.</p>
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<p>Carry a gun. If they bother you, shoot them.</p>
<p>Yes, I blame the victims many times even when I am a victim and my kids and other loved ones. By blame I don’t mean I point my finger and say it serves them right. I say to avoid being a victim as much as possible. </p>
<p>Many date rape situations are such that both parties were behaving irresponsibly. It is all well and good to say, “no” means just that at any time and point in the situation, but I think that there is a lot of responsibility to say that “no” earlier than in some of the situations I’ve heard about. </p>
<p>Every case of date rape is different. Sometimes it is a deliberate “trap” of sorts, sometimes it’s two people who let things go to far. Can’t always tell the difference, but there are cases when it 's pretty clear. I am much more sympathetic to someone who was truly duped, than someone who put self and date in a situation where it is truly impossible to tell what transpired. </p>
<p>I tell my loved ones not to set themselves up as victims, as each person has the most control on what s/he does, not others actions. </p>
<p>When it comes down to it, in many date rape situations, you can’t tell which one is truly the victim, the accuser who many have raped or is upset about the aftermath, or the accused who might have gone beyond the “no”, or just had casual consensual sex and then was a boor about it.</p>
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By this description of a straw man argument
this little ditty could be seen as a straw man
because while Crystal Mangum was as student elsewhere, she was not a Duke student. The discussion in this thread began about 2 girls who ultimately left their schools because of fear of running into the fellow students who assaulted them, and who felt unprotected by their own administration. This is not the case with Crystal Mangum. Most readers likely understood poetgrls’s implication in post # 186 that crystal mangum was not a DUKE student. So to try to devalue her comment by pointing out that Crystal was taking classes elsewhere seems to be largely to score points in an argument. Whether or not by strictest definition that was a “straw man” argument is probably irrelevant. It just seems unnecessary to point out crystal’s student status just to prove poetgrl wrong. FWIW.</p>
<p>** and you mentioned above that is was ok to use “common sense”, which most readers likely used in understanding what poetgrl meant in her post.</p>
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Oh for crying out loud. What is the point of such a response?</p>
<p>I don’t want to carry a gun- too many reasons to count.
[LCAV</a> - Gun Violence Statistics](<a href=“http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp]LCAV”>http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp)</p>
<p>because while Crystal Mangum was as student elsewhere, she was not a</p>
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<p>I merely pointed out a fact. That was not a strawman.</p>
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<p>In 2008, SCOTUS considered the death penalty for child rape.
It lost by a 5-4 margin.</p>
<p>In NH, we have the right to unconcealed carry. This means that you can
walk around with a firearm, as long as it isn’t concealed. People do
use their firearms to protect their person and property here. As they
do in other states.</p>
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<p>We will have a new generation of non-lethal weapons in the near future which may be more useful for those that don’t want to carry guns.</p>
<p>^^ Considering the death penalty for child rape is an entirely different issue than proposing vigilante violence for a stalker, using a gun or any other weapon. Come on. Really now. </p>
<p>And devaluing/weakening poetgrls argument by twisting the implication of her comment seems to meet the definition of a straw man argument. You asked that it be pointed out. But no matter.</p>
<p>Whats the % of people in NH who carry a firearm?
( and what makes you think those who sexually assault others aren’t armed? Where do you think stolen weapons end up? At the Sheriffs bake sale?)</p>
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[quote]
“one out of every seven adult women, or over 65,000 adult women in New Hampshire, has been the victim of forcible rape sometime in her lifetime.” <a href=“from%20May%2015,%202003%20report%20to%20the%20state”>/quote</a></p>
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<p>BCeagle-
If someone thought your s or d were stalking them, would it be ok for that person to shoot your kid? Really?</p>
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<p>Self-defense isn’t vigilantiasm.</p>
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<p>It isn’t a strawman. Posting a fact isn’t a strawman.</p>
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<p>You’ll need to do a little better than on your citation.</p>
<p>Much of the population growth in New Hampshire is in-migration from
other states as it has low taxes, a lot of freedoms, high quality
of life and access to excellent medical care.</p>
<p>BCEagle, there are many kinds of privilege. One of them is male privilege, which is obviously what I was referring to, and includes the privilege of being clueless about what many women experience – at least when you close your ears. </p>
<p>By the way, I know you’re proud of yourself for having learned to recognize one rhetorical device (the straw man argument), but must you keep repeating it in what seems like every single thread no matter the topic? All that you succeed in doing is undermining your own arguments.</p>
<p>Anyone who has the idea that I’m “hostile” to men or don’t have empathy for them is just being silly. My son is a man. I lived as one myself, once upon a time (a heterosexual one, for that matter), as some of you know. Do I think most men commit sexual assault? Of course not. I think there’s a small percentage of men who do, and that most of them do so on multiple occasions (and I do believe there are studies supporting that). <em>Especially</em> when you take into account more minor sexual crimes – which obviously aren’t equivalent to rape, but still constitute sexual assault in many if not all jurisdictions. The statistic I’ve seen most about actual rape is something along the lines of one in six women. I suspect it may be more, but that’s based entirely on anecdotal evidence. </p>
<p>But yes, I do believe that the majority of women have been the victim of something in the overall category of sexual assault. And if you do include things like grabbing and rubbing (especially in urban areas with public transportation, especially subways), and if you add people exposing themselves (which I never claimed constitutes sexual assault), yes, I think it’s the overwhelming majority. In six years as a woman, I’ve had that kind of thing happen to me on several occasions. In all those years as a guy, I experienced nothing remotely like it (leaving aside being sexually abused as a child, which I think happens to boys and girls pretty much equally).</p>
<p>By the way, BCEeagle, if someone says they’ve been the victim of a mugging or a robbery or a non-sexual assault, do you challenge their veracity? Do you think they’re making it up? Or is it only women who’ve been sexually assaulted or raped whom you challenge?</p>
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<p>I said if they bother you though, perhaps, attack would have been a better way to put it.</p>
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Shooting a stalker who is bothering you isn’t self defense.</p>
<p>Poetgrl writes "I just want to clarify, because I cannot imagine you mean that a girl who goes on a date with a young man and is raped has “put herself in a situation where this could happen.” </p>
<p>Not the poster you are responding to but I would want the girl to be proactively cautious in any situation where she is alone with a guy. For example, don’t go to the guy’s apartment and play naked twister. Or, start having sex while drunk and then break it off (including intercourse). Coercive sex is a crime in these situations but the girl needs to keep herself out of situations that could put her potentially at risk (even if the risk is very low in most cases).</p>
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<p>Whether or nor pulling an isolated factoid out to claim your post is true does not, from the definition of “straw man”, mean that your post isnt a straw man post. The intent was to have a superior argument , to knock down the other argument. The intent is to devalue the other person’s point (in this case poetgrl) and you are claiming you are doing so with a “fact”. That is irrelevant. Doesn’t matter if what you post is "fact"or not. Its a straw man argument intended to deflate the other person’s statement.</p>