<p>So how reliable is your survey data when it comes to drug use MINI? The kid who is stoned 24/7 frequently functions more or less normally like the maintenance drinker i.e. he isn’t urinating in the street or puking in the gutter. That doesn’t mean he/she doesn’t have a major problem though.</p>
<p>I think drugs and alcohol abuse probably often go together but since there are limits to what the human system can ingest generally one or the other becomes the drug of choice in a given community, at least amongst those who become abusers. Timothy Leary wasn’t a frat boy at rural Football U.</p>
<p>quibble. There are a few. Admittedly a bunch are rabinnical colleges, and others are Christian, and some like Deep Springs are rather quirky, but they do exist.</p>
<p>“Duke Medical hand out vouchers for a free drink for the first surveys completed.”</p>
<p>Actually, though, the surveys are inaccurate, as after they’ve blacked out, they can’t remember how many drinks they’ve had! ;)</p>
<p>Half the colleges in the country are below the national average (duh!) </p>
<p>"So how reliable is your survey data when it comes to drug use MINI?'</p>
<p>What experimental data tells us (both statistical and observed techniques utilized over a 25-year period to test both the validity and reliability of the data) is that the survey data is remarkably reliable EXCEPT for injection drug use. Then, both the nature of survey (face-to-face, telephone, paper, and computer) breaks down, and the number of answers means that the standard deviation becomes very large. </p>
<p>Certain drugs are commonly found with alcohol; others virtually not at all. But since at colleges (and among youth generally speaking) marijuana overwhelms the use of other drugs in the surveys, and is the most easy to access, marijuana and alcohol are those most commonly found together. This shows up in youth treatment data as well,</p>
<p>I’m just curious: How will an admissions officer know in advance which applicants are likely to be big drinkers? (Assuming that’s what you mean, that the drinkers not be admitted in the first place.)</p>
<p>Maybe but when the Mexican government has to send 9,000 tropps to the northern states because they are afraid of a rebellion by the drug lords as has just happened, you know somebody has to be smoking, snorting, popping, and shooting up a lot of drugs somewhere on our side of the border.</p>
<p>It is my hypothesis that colleges could cross-check alcohol violations on campus with originating high schools and quickly identify schools that disproportionately send drunks to college. </p>
<p>To large extent, the problem drunks on campus did not start drinking when they arrived at college. High school violations, even suspensions, are being swept under the rug. It wouldn’t take many uber-elite colleges telling a few uber-elite prep and high schools that they are going to pass on their applicants for a few years to see the system change overnight. If the word gets out that these uber-prestigious colleges frown on enrolling drunks, I guarantee that the people spending $15,000 on private college counselors to get little Johnny into these colleges will sing a different tune about high school binge drinking.</p>
<p>The problem? The profiling would, in all likelihood, correlate strongly with full-pay students from some of the most prestigious prep and affluent suburban school districts. There was a student here on CC last year accepted to one of the most prestigious colleges in the country from one of the most prestigious prep schools. This student had been kicked out of one high school (9th grade) for drinking. He was most interested in the college’s party scene. How easy is it to use fake IDs? Is it hard to buy cocaine? I could understand it if these colleges were having trouble filling their seats. But, they have ten good applicants for every spot in the freshman class. They don’t have to enroll drunks.</p>
<p>We dare not profile terrorist but we should start profiling students based on the schools they attended? Wel I guess it is OK if the are members of the oppressor class or at least cab pass the brown paper bag test.</p>
<p>The problem is the competition for top SAT scores among schools is almost as fierce as the competition to get into the schools. Small shifts in average SAT score translate into shifts in the rankings which in turn increases or decreases demand disproportionately. A small drop in applications or worse yield translates into the need for a steeper discounts or if we are a really elite school a reassessment of your financial need.</p>
<p>Blacklisting whole schools from which a significant chunk of high scorers graduate and letting the competition scarf them up probably won’t be considered a shrewd marketing ploy by the dean of admissions.</p>
<p>Which is precisely why I am skeptical when it comes to college presidents saying they would like to reduce their drinking cultures.</p>
<p>There are plenty of great applicants for all of these colleges who are not drunks. The admissions departments are skilled professionals. If it were a priority to not enroll drunks, they would enroll a lot fewer of them.</p>
<p>I scanned through the thread and breifly and no one has made mention that, as parents, we have the responsibility to teach our kids to be responsible for themselves. You can’t send them out in the world in a heremtically sealed bubble.</p>
<p>Kids need to know how to avoid trouble, becuase once they’re away from home, it can be too easy to find it.</p>
<p>UGA? DRY??? How in the world did that happen? I used to be an RA in the freshman women’s dorm and drinking was a big, big, big problem. That is an enormous culture shift at a school where it’s been traditional to start the booze at 9 am on Game Day.</p>
<p>Dadguy, have you sent anyone away yet? I used to feel as you do but the power of peer pressure in the face of loneliness, distance and new found freedom is more than many kids can resist. Personally, although I can’t say I was an angel in college, I regularly propose the reinstitution of the house “mother”. In my day, it was a graduate student and her husband. They didn’t take attendance or search rooms but their presence was all that we needed to encourage moderation as we transitioned from Mom and Dad to complete personal freedom. I don’t understand why we lost “adult role models” and contacts in the dorms. I think the presence of a house whatever would be reminder to stay grounded.</p>
<p>That’s not really the issue, here. The issue is that heavy binge drinking schools make life miserable for non-drinkers and light drinkers. The heavy binge drinking detracts from the college experience for students who chose not to participate in that social scene, in large part because drunks can be so obnoxious and disruptive. Your daughter should not pay $40,000 a year to attend a school where she has to step over vomit to walk down the hall of her dorm or have students peeing on the carpet of the dorm lounge.</p>
<p>There have been some valuable points made on this thread. Sokkermom has pointed out that all of the research is suspect. Clearly the researchers are biased and out to prove a point. The research conclusions might be a lot different if we start with some more reasonable definitions. Binge drinking has been defined as 4-5 drinks/session. This is ridiculous. Parties can go on for hours and 4-5 drinks is way too low. How about a more reasonable definition, like 10 or 12 drinks? Researchers tend to use harsh terms like blacking out. I think “crashing” sounds a lot better. Also, a good point has been made about exposing our kids to the real world. Alcohol use is prevalent. The college experience is a good time to get used to being around or joining into the alcohol culture. This is probably also true for drugs and college kids should learn how to handle exposure to pot, speed, cocaine, and the new drugs. Researchers tend to use ugly words like abuse. I like “experimentation.” This implies that college kids have a certain intellectual approach to investigating their environment. It is also true that, even when the predominant culture is focused on alcohol and drugs, kids can find alternatives. There is no reason they need to join in and have a social life. They can always spend free time in the dorm room decorating and playing with nerdy, techie stuff. Drunken behavior, puke in the bathrooms, and pee on the carpets are not really all that important. After all the dorm life includes housekeeping. Alcohol and drugs are an important part of the traditions associated with college. All we need do is teach our kids how to handle them in a responsible fashion. Starting out by giving a little wine to a child at family events is probably the best way to avoid future problems. When they grow up a bit, they can join in with family and friends, putting a way a few six packs of beer and yelling at the sporting events on the big screen plasma TV. It’s really all just a matter of perspective.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the bizarre level of resistance here to the research data mini continously cites. As far as I can tell, it’s about as high-quality as social science research gets. That doesn’t mean it’s completely accurate, but as mini points out other pretty good studies have shown (and logic would suggest) that the inaccuracy tends towards understating, not overstating, the drug and alcohol use. In any event, it provides a lot of knowledge. </p>
<p>And it’s not very surprising, either. None of the conclusions that mini repeats is remotely counter-intuitive. What I take from them is that the drinking problems at colleges with big drinking cultures may be a little worse than I thought, on the whole, and have a somewhat greater connection to alcoholism than I thought. But not double or triple what I would have thought based solely on life experience.</p>
<p>What’s pushing the buttons here? The suggestion that, on average, a big Greek scene indicates more drinking? I’m sure there’s a college somewhere where that’s not true, but on the whole if you don’t know that you’re living under a rock. Ditto schools with strong sports cultures (on average, not every single one), isolated rural schools, and schools with wealthier kids. </p>
<p>Drinking culture is an issue at Williams, Dartmouth, Amherst, Washington & Lee, Penn State, etc. And lots of other places. Places you love, and I love too. Get over it.</p>
<p>Drinking is only an issue, if you make it an issue. We are free to ignore or disagree with the experts, ignore facts, and look for different perspectives. In the words of one CC member: "Of course this is my opinion, but I’m entitled. "</p>
<p>The other night I logged on to a prospective student chat for colorado state. There were 40-50 prospective students chatting with 5 or 6 CSU students. Several of the prospective students were interested only in finding out about the drinking culture there. Was it easy to get away with? etc. The CSU students replied that CSU was a dry campus, and that they had really cracked down on drinking…and that it was almost impossible to get away with on campus. Many of the prospective students said “thanks for the info… I’m going elsewhere!” I thought that was interesting…I guess that’s one way to filter out some of the heavy drinkers.</p>
<p>No, edad. Drinking is “an issue”. To my mind, that means that people with different values may reach different conclusions about how harmful it is, what corresponding benefits there may be, and what the cost-benefit equation for changing it would be. But any rational person would recognize that there are problematic aspects to binge drinking and heavy drinking as widespread phenomena.</p>
<p>I have been upfront on CC about having been both a binge drinker and at times a heavy drinker in college. I’m sure it affected my performance, but it didn’t affect any measurable outcomes much that anyone could tell, and I cut back / stopped from about age 21 to age 25. I have fond memories of college and zany, alcohol-fueled behavior (and some regrets, too, and belated understanding that others around me were not as unscathed as I). I am not Carrie Nation on this “issue” at all.</p>
<p>But why deny what the data tell you, or use its imperfections to excuse sticking your head in the sand? No one sends his or her kid to Dartmouth saying, “I hope Junior is among the x% of kids who has a blackout episode there!” I think Dartmouth is, on the whole, a wonderful school, and I believe it would be extremely difficult to excise its drinking culture surgically without making it a very different (and perhaps even less wonderful) place. I don’t think prohibition works with 18-year-olds. And I know that not every kid at Dartmouth blacks out – x% < 100% – or even drinks. That said, every Dartmouth student, parent, and administrator ought to be saying, “This is something of a problem. Are there things we should be doing that we aren’t to reduce or eliminate the worst of the negatives?”</p>