<p>I had to read edad’s post #54 several times early this morning before I concluded that he was writing with sarcasm, and actually believed the opposite of what he seemed to be saying.</p>
<p>“Binge drinking has been defined as 4-5 drinks/session”</p>
<p>False. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism redefined binge drinking on February 5, 2004 as 4 drinks (female) or 5 drinks (male) within a two-hour period. They also defined the size of the drinks.</p>
<p>Surprisingly, perhaps, the redefinition had virtually no effect on the data. (Most binge drinkers drink much more than that and, as noted, a 4-drink drinker, defined as a non-binge drinker, on average had 8.75 drinks, and half of them more than that. That’s why all the data are underestimates.)</p>
<p>At any rate, the OP asked how she might be able to find schools with less of a drinking culture, and I think she has been provided with good information.</p>
<p>This OP is now dazed. I drink one or two drinks roughly twice a year. my family didn’t drink at home, ever. my birth father and both grandfathers alcoholics who died from the disease. my father barely made it to 50 before he died. I didn’t know them but it scares the heck out of me.
I fear sending kids off to a place where this is “normal”, since I can’t tell what is normal on my own.
unless someone had written it down I would have had no clue Edad was being sarcastic. sheesh. Ease up, buddy, some of us are OLD. and in Jersey.</p>
<p>Sorry, I will be less than subtle. As paying customers, we should start pressuring college administrations to enforce their written policies. I want to see an end to alcohol in dorms and at school functions, including on campus alumni events. Unacceptable, drunken behavior should not be allowed even if the ingestion occurred off campus.</p>
<p>The argument can always be made that this will just push alcohol consumption off campus. Fine. That gives more of a choice for the individual student.</p>
<p>So far, my S hasn’t mentioned any problems with drinking/drunk folks & he’s at a school with a rep for partying (USC). I also went to schools with a rep for partying (UOr & UCD). I never had problems finding like-minded folks that didn’t drink, even tho the drinking age was 18 when I was in school. I know it is probably easier to find non-drinkers on “dry” campuses & religous campuses, but my S has a problem with formalized religion & is very happy where he is.
My kids say that even in their HS, there are kids who drink and do drugs. Fortunately, my kids have never been interested, as really like being in control & prefer not to even take prescribed meds that alter how they feel (even their asthma meds, but will take it when absolutely required).
My niece is at UOr, which continues to have a drug/drinking rep, but I don’t believe she’s into that “culture” and is very happy there anyway. In large enough schools, I believe kids can find their niche – may take some doing.
Another niece is at Notre Dame, where they have to sign a contract & have a lot of rules about acceptable behavior, etc.; Wheaton in IL (religous school) also has kids sign a contract of behavior.</p>
<p>There majority of schools seem to have a problem with alcohol, but none of our kids ever become involved. They can always find the alternatives, even if they are in a very small minority.</p>
<p>While I tend to agree, I think a better approach would be to make all the information public and transparent, and let the free market do its thing. If there are schools that want to operate as prestigious taverns, and can attract a clientele that way, let 'em. Just make sure there is truth in advertising. If there are those who don’t like their current image, well there are plenty of things they can do not just to change their image, but actual campus behavior.</p>
<p>Put binge drinking into the USNWR rankings. It is at least as relevant for academic quality as peer review scores (since those doing the reviewing never attended the schools, and only know about the vast majority of schools from their colleagues and friends with whom they may have attended graduate school.) </p>
<p>And then let the free market operate. With so many colleges and universities out there, there should be a niche for everyone, provided everyone is armed with information.</p>
<p>“There majority of schools seem to have a problem with alcohol, but none of our kids ever become involved. They can always find the alternatives, even if they are in a very small minority.”</p>
<p>That, and the tooth fairy. ;)</p>
<p>Mini–any idea on how to get USNWR report figures on binge drinking or markers of drinking/drugs on their campus? That surely would be an interesting statistic!</p>
<p>Not likely. The data are proprietary, and the colleges would have to voluntarily provide it. Now, theoretically, anyone can ask for it from particular schools, but whether they can make it public without consent is unlikely. (I know I don’t). The impact would more likely be that schools would choose to no longer participate in the Harvard Public Health surveys, and UMichigan’s Monitoring the Future.</p>
<p>But, seriously, while there are a few outliers, if you use the checklist of correlates, you can pretty much predict where virtually all schools will lie on the spectrum, with 44% bingeing in the previous two weeks being the median. (I’ve actually done the exercise with schools that I know, and the exceptions are very rare. What is unknown is, when you get a “high” correlation (like Penn State), you don’t know how much higher it will be than other schools with slightly less high correlations (Williams, Duke). And similarly true on the low end.</p>
<p>Just skimming this thread. UGA…dry??? Only if it happened this school year. And only if the students have agreed to go along with it (not likely if our friends kids are any indication). Rice and Notre Dame are “wet” campuses. Drinking is tolerated if not ignored as long as the student is not a danger to himself or others. Niece graduated from Rice - lots of drinking and drinking stories. D knows a girl who transferred from Notre Dame over Christmas break 'cause it’s “all about football and beer”, too much drinking in the dorms. There was even a statement on their website about being a “wet” campus, at least there was last year when we were looking.</p>
<p>“UGA…dry??? Only if it happened this school year.”</p>
<p>Just happened this year. Initially, of course, it will simply move drinking off campus. But over time - figure four years - (if UOklahoma is an indication) it could have a substantial impact on campus life.</p>
<p>Some universities are pretty transparent. Go to <a href=“http://www.princeton.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.princeton.edu</a> and type in “binge drinking” in the search window. There was a survey on this in 1998 which caused consternation on campus. The subsequent opening of the Frist Student Center (think TVs, cafe, computers, some classrooms) was done, among other reasons, with an eye to alleviating the problem. As is the current emphasis on 4-year resident colleges to provide alternatives to the eating clubs - where the binge drinking used to happen most often. Now that there are fraternities at Princeton, albeit without houses, the eating clubs are starting to be actually saner alternatives, and have been cited as such by the town of Princeton.</p>
<p>However, with >5,000 undergraduates, a large number of international kids of many races, (Jian Li aside) a suburban location, and reasonable proximity to NYC, Princeton is neither a terrible offender nor a beacon of light. However, the reality of drinking at Princeton, at least, is quite findable. You can also search the Daily Princetonian for a series on drinking on campus that ran last year.</p>
<p>I don’t really understand why people who are being sarcastic don’t use some of those cute little smileys to help us out. 
It’s not that hard.</p>
<p>Of course, the published Princeton survey is somewhat dated, but it does support the notion of the link between binge drinking and academic quality:</p>
<p>“Other findings of the survey identify academic consequences of binge drinking. In the 1998 survey, 20 percent of Princeton binge drinkers reported performing poorly on a test or project and 54 percent reported missing a class due to alcohol use. These figures have improved since 1993, in which 28 and 59 percent, respectively, of binge drinkers reported performing poorly on a test or missing class due to alcohol use. However, such results are tempered by the finding, in 1995, that some students select courses to accommodate their social and drinking patterns.”</p>
<p>(Princeton is NOT a high binge-drinking school - it falls about average, which, looking at the list of correlates, is somewhat predictable.)</p>
<p>There are, in fact, some schools - including prestige schools - that have basically eliminated Friday classes to accommodate student drinking.</p>
<p>Again, sorry, I really did not think I could be more obvious.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about UGA except through a friend’s child who is a freshman this year. They came over to visit this past weekend and the student had story after story about drunken parties. Student even said they were considering transferring because she found it hard to refuse the invitations to all the parties which go on most nights–not just weekends. Not saying it’s any worse there than other places, but doesn’t sound any better. Plus student mentioned there were something like 60 bars within walking distance of campus.</p>
<p>I was really surprised at schools that have eliminated friday classes-
I would be ticked- and I would expect a price break :)</p>
<p>My nieces-( neither drink) attended a top school that could be described as having a drinking/frat problem.<br>
several incidents over the years- several quite serious.
They have gone as far as to move all or at least some frats off campus I think- as the behavior was being blamed on them.</p>
<p>However- on the whole schools that seem to lean more towards “drinking” to go with the other activities on campus- rather than pot smoking- seem to be more “traditional and conservative”- and as colleges overall- seem to be on the liberal side- the “tradition” outweighed potential binge partying as a criteria apparently for their family</p>
<p>I think especially for the girl who wasn’t involved in athletics- not attending parties where drinking was a major or even minor part of the social life- made her feel even more seperate.</p>
<p>On the other hand- I did have the impression that some schools- it is more a personal choice- and the object isn’t competitive drinking.
Reed is also fairly unusual in that there is some acknowledgement that students are using substances and although I am not sure how much is adminstration and how much is student body- resources are provided for oversight- rather than outright banning.</p>
<p>For example- there is really too much work at Reed for drug/alcohol use to be a big part of anyones life.</p>
<p>So Renn Fayre the big spring blowout is supposed to make up for that.
Ds HA freshman year- told the dorm horror stories and advised them to * get out of town*.:eek:
She was kinda freaked out by that- but she stayed.
It is pretty wild- but the beer garden is tightly controlled, there are “border patrol” to keep hopeful high school students away and “karma patrol” to make sure that no body is sleeping it off unobserved in a dorm room. They have areas with food/water- medical care- for those who need assistance- and while the attitude that if you need help- you wont be expelled but will be taken care off, may encourage some to partake a tad more than they should, I think it probably also saves some lives, in that students aren’t hidden away, from those who are more sober.( D worked border patrol for 3 years- for senior year- she was one upon whom champagne was poured)</p>
<p>I also don’t have the impression that it was “everyone” who was drinking- alumni are invited and often attend- with their kids- and there are lots of very entertaining events- besides the * human chess game* and 15 ft pinwheels,glow opera-, barbeque pit- madagascar cockroach eating and all kinds of wild and wooly things that I have never seen for myself :(</p>
<p>But there does seem to be a different atmosphere at a place that has one big blowout every year- as opposed to party every weekend.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think it is difficult to define a “one size fits all” approach to campus drinking. Because the issue is so fundamentally linked to campus cultures, what works at one school may not work at another. There are downsides to alcohol bans, one being that it shifts drinking away from public functions with some degree of oversight (e.g. the ability to “cut someone off” for the night) to private “pre-gaming” functions where the goal is often to drink enough in an hour “to last the night”. </p>
<p>College administrators really have to start with an honest assessment of “where they are at” and consider options that will work in that particular campus culture. The really tough ones are schools that are known for heavy drinking. Those schools are in a vicious cycle where heavy drinkers self-select the school because of the drinking. Not only is it difficult to change the culture, but the culture is so long standing that administrators often run into alumni resistance.</p>
<p>My son’s campus has Friday classes mainly for engineers (which he is). The long weekends can be useful for kids who work weekends and/or travel. It can also be nice for families who visit to be able to spend time with their kids. If all the instruction can happen on the other days, I see no problem with having few or no classes on Fridays.</p>
<p>I think it helps when the U plans lots of engaging activities for the kids to participate in on the U (w/o drinks/drugs), so the kids have options, just like in HS. When the school doesn’t offer things to do, the kids will go & find/make their own celebrations & more likely have it involve drinks/drugs (I believe).</p>
<p>I should think no classes on Friday would be EXTREMELY popular with the faculty. Get caught up on research, consult or just chill.
BTW I read a lament by a prof at a large top tier state U complaining that nobody comes to office hours anymore. Students prefer an email an expect a response within minutes.</p>