<p>
I agree with Ag54. And if you think the Columbia editorial in your comment #52 is fair to the Minutemen, I’d hate to hear what you think is unfair.</p>
<p>rightwing,</p>
<p>So you’re not applying to Columbia based on one incident? Seems a bit silly to me.</p>
<p>On whether the editorial was fair or not, it seems clear enough that the Minutemen are a paramilitary group, whose founders veer pretty close to racism in some of their more “colorful” quotes.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=916[/url]”>http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=916</a>
</p>
<p>I certainly can see where the allegations come from.</p>
<p>Rugburn,</p>
<p>Let’s assume you are correct and the Minutemen are a racist paramilitary organization. Don’t you think that letting them speak, followed by probing questions, would be more likely to expose their true colors? We’ll never know because the protesters aborted the discussion. Columbia students didn’t learn a thing about the Minutemen but everyone learned a great deal about the protesters.</p>
<p>Oh, I agree with that - the people who rushed the stage basically blew it. Had they waited for the Q&A to ask some tough questions, I’m sure the Minutemen would have left with far less sympathy than they have now. A bad, bad choice by them.</p>
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</p>
<p>Well weenie, having given you the benefit of the doubt, I must confess I assume too much.</p>
<p>As a rule, when someone pleads ignorance (and pastes one of those cutsie smiley-faces on it) I assume they would prefer to be happy-n in-the-know, than to keep a-bumpin’ their noggin into the wall. I’d completely discounted the fact that some wall-sluggers are quite content in their knob-bobbin’ hobgoblin-ignorance–they say it gives them a feeling of euphoria, a sense of bliss–and though I hate to be a buzz-kill, I opted to err on the side of ‘lightenment and learnin,’ as you folks say. </p>
<p>But alas, not all good comes to a good end, and it seems the little-loco hooligans at Columbia are not the only ones around here bored by book-learnin’, words and the benefits of good table-manners. They probably share that exquisite sense of euphoria and bliss that, as time goes by, turns otherwise braying mules into mere intellectual slackers. (GREAT BIG SMILEY FACE FOR YOU–“pink with a wink”).</p>
<p>Rugburn,</p>
<p>You said, “A bad, bad choice”.
I’d say, a bad, bad deed. I’d even say, “a violation of other’s rights.” </p>
<p>These little ruffians didn’t simply chose something, it wasn’t a vote or an opinion, they did something…fwiw, something wrong that showed disrespect for the rights–and for the persons–of others. It was an untoward–however, flailing & effete–acting out of aggression (complete with mindless and rote–read: intellectually bankrupt–slogans). </p>
<p>Condemning choices is at best dicey; but there’s a civil obligation to condemn uncivil aggression. As the good book says, you shall know them by their fruits; here: rotten, right off the tree of knowledge (Otherwise ‘Great Books’ hang from Columbia’s tree–side by side with these dead-beats).</p>
<p>How are they a racist, paramilitary orginization? First off who cares what a member of thier group says. As long as they dont act as a racist paramilitary orginization it does not matter what he says. They do nothing wrong. I just cannot understand how your mind is so distorted that when a group of people alert the police that something illegal is going on they are labeled racists. Where is the logic in that</p>
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</p>
<p>golani89, to understand, first you need to have the right mindset:
<a href=“http://■■■■■■■.com/fonzf[/url]”>http://■■■■■■■.com/fonzf</a></p>
<p>Yesterday, two girls who were organizers of the protest appeared on Hannity & Colmes. Yikes! I think the one who was shouting down Hannity and spouting inane, inaccurate comments is poised to become the future Anne Coulter of the Democratic party.</p>
<p>from above link:
</p>
<p>If they truly believe the Minutemen espouse hate speech. Then isn’t this the “pot calling the kettle black”? Anyway, how would they know what they were going to say, they didn’t give them a chance to speak?</p>
<p>One thing that really heartened me about all of this was when I went to the BWOG (Columbia’s online Blue-and-white Blog…hence the name BWOG). There are several articles posted about this, and then student responses. One of the articles was written by one of the young women who organized this protest. And though she tried to justify the actions of those who took the stage with their sign, etc, several student responders saw right through that! I loved reading their responses!</p>
<p>Even if they, too, think they disagree with the Minutemen. They wanted to hear what they had to say in order to be more well-informed. </p>
<p>So sad, but hopefully much is to be learned from this!</p>
<p>As I mentioned, I was born and lived most of my life 3 miles from the Rio Grande River. I don’t agree with the Minutemen Project, but something does need to be done at the border. Back in my younger days, farmers and ranchers would leave water and shelter on their land for those making their way north illegally. No one wanted to find a dead body on their land. They didn’t feel fear or the need to arm themselves against these illegals…we all realized that the majority of those crossing were trying to get north to make a decent living. Drugs and guns didn’t figure into the equation. </p>
<p>TODAY, things are different. When I return to my hometown in the Upper Rio Grande Valley, you see these huge neighborhoods of McMansions that have sprouted up miraculously despite an extremely depressed economy… and everyone knows they are drug money neighborhoods. Formerly respectable families have many members who have been arrested and are serving time for drug-related crimes. Today, you can assume many who are crossing are moving drugs or trafficking humans and they are usually armed. You can’t make the old assumption ‘if I leave them alone, they’ll leave me alone’. Not only that, I understand from several family members who are former Border Patrol and currently with federal law enforcement, the number of people crossing illegally through our southern border who are from countries like Iraq and Syria is shocking.</p>
<p>Again, I don’t support the idea of a militia (strange as that may seem coming from a Native Texan…lol!), but our federal government needs to get their butts down there and take care of business. And, btw, that crazy wall idea won’t cut it either. Drug and human trafficking cartels are experts at creating tunnels with amenities that would blow the mind and that are large enough to accommodate vehicles.</p>
<p>This isn’t a matter of racism, it’s a matter of containing illegal activity imho. I would feel much more comfortable if our law enforcement officers would take care of the law enforcing rather than average citizens.</p>
<p>With regard to the Minutemen: </p>
<p>IDMom - My Texas experience mirrors yours and I agree the answer is for the federal government rather than a civilian militia to secure our borders. However, I think the Minutemen’s involvement spurred the government to take action on the border. </p>
<p>With regard to the Columbia students:
<a href=“http://media.www.columbiaspectator.com/media/storage/paper865/news/2006/10/06/News/Investigation.To.Look.At.Facebook-2336662.shtml?sourcedomain=www.columbiaspectator.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com[/url]”>http://media.www.columbiaspectator.com/media/storage/paper865/news/2006/10/06/News/Investigation.To.Look.At.Facebook-2336662.shtml?sourcedomain=www.columbiaspectator.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com</a></p>
<p>I read the following response in an interview posted in the BWOG. It is a statement by Chaplain Jewelnel Davis of Columbia University, and it expresses perfectly the sad nature of the situation:</p>
<p>"You know, this is not gonna sound like a comment that someone who’s part of a central senior administration should say, but it broke my heart. When I saw that (students storming the stage and disrupting the event), it broke my heart. Because I love Columbia students, I love the University, and we have all been diminished by this. "</p>
<p>To read the entire interview, you can go here and scroll down to “Chaplain Davis Shakes Her Finger”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bwog.net/[/url]”>http://www.bwog.net/</a></p>
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Oh, don’t worry. Our elected representatives are on top of that one. The House has passed a law against tunnels, so I am sure the criminals will comply and stop digging them:</p>
<p>H.R. 4830, the Border Tunnel Prevention Act of 2006
Criminalizing the Construction and Financing of Border Tunnels. The Border Tunnel Prevention Act enacts criminal penalties of up to 20 years imprisonment for individuals who knowingly construct or finance the construction of an unauthorized tunnel across a U.S. international border. In addition, individuals who recklessly permit the construction of such a tunnel on their own property are subject to imprisonment of up to 10 years. Individuals caught using such a tunnel to smuggle aliens, contraband, drugs, weapons, or terrorists are subject to twice the penalty that would have otherwise been imposed.
<a href=“http://www.house.gov/list/press/pa03_english/immigration0906.html[/url]”>http://www.house.gov/list/press/pa03_english/immigration0906.html</a></p>
<p>(I can’t find the smiley face that indicates tongue-in-cheek or I would put it right here)</p>
<p>2dsdad, so humans can build an atom bomb, send someone to the moon, but they cant build a wall that will keep people out? How is it that your ideaology blinds you so much.</p>
<p>Take the example from the israeli’s, noone digs tunnels under their fence, no one infiltrates their fence, just yesterday 4 people were caught planting a bomb at the fence and they were shot and wounded, im not saying we should shoot illegal immigrants, but if the israelis can shoot terrorists, we can catch illegals or make them run off</p>
<p>golani,</p>
<p>You missed his point. The funny part is the fact that the House is making halfhearted attempts at rectifying the situation by passing laws that it won’t enforce. </p>
<p>Oh, and securing the Israeli borders is a slightly different undertaking (in scale, that is) from securing the US border with Mexico.</p>
<p>
My ideology? Tell me how you know what my ideology is and what side I am on with respect to this issue?</p>
<p>Passing a law saying that it is illegal to build a tunnel won’t stop tunnels, although it may sound good in an incumbent’s campaign speech as November approaches. Enforcement of our already existing laws against illegal crossing of our borders on foot, in the air, or underground will. So far there hasn’t been much effort made. A heavy military presence on the border with shoot to kill orders like the Israeli policy that you refer to would be very effective. But I don’t see any willingness on the part of the politicians to support such a move. The point the Minutemen are making is that our undermanned, underarmed Border Patrol are no match for the problem.</p>
<p>I wasn’t saying that we can’t or shouldn’t control who gets across our borders. But passing a law that just says what is already illegal is illegal is just election year posturing unless it is backed up with enforcement.</p>
<p>PS- if you are wondeing what my ideology might be, let me give you a hint. I live in AZ where I get to see the pros but also the significant cons of a de facto open border policy.</p>
<p>President Bush hasn’t signed the Secure Fence Act and, unless he does so in the next 3 days, [Mickey</a> Kaus](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/id/2150865/&#pocketveto]Mickey”>http://www.slate.com/id/2150865/&#pocketveto) believes it will lapse under the pocket veto rule.</p>
<p>I personally would like to see the national gaurd back up the border and a fence built. With America’s capabilities it is absolutely possible to build a fence that will keep illegals out.</p>