Combining Athletic Training & Pre-Med (No AT knowledge required!)

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Thank you in advance for any help you can provide! I promise this post is only long because I am invested in this and am being thorough from the start.</p>

<p>First, a little background on my situation. I am a first semester freshman at Texas State University-San Marcos with an Athletic Training major. I just recently solidified the fact that I want to fully pursue medical school, while also earning my AT credentials. I hope to someday be able to combine the two, with a pediatrics or sports medicine specialization as an MD. AT is a big passion of mine, and I already have the experience to know that I cannot change that fact! </p>

<p>Now for the unfortunate concerns. The AT program here is very strict on its curriculum, with only a few courses able to be moved out of their original semester. This is because AT Students are permitted to do certain things each year, with the assumption they have taken the proper coursework. As such, fitting in full labs of pre-med pre-reqs is a little difficult, especially since I am starting a semester later than the norm, and am trying to avoid a 5th year of undergraduate work (with AT courses it couldn’t happen, and I’ve already taken nearly all of my Core classes). As you can see in the Google Doc below (sorry, Google split my 1 page spreadsheet into 2), my schedule is a little packed. Originally my plan was to do both BIOs and both Physics over my first 2 summers at Austin Community College, the prominent CC of Central Texas. However, I recently learned that med schools somewhat look down on pre-reqs being taken at CCs. Unfortunately, I am doing it for schedule purposes, not for “cheating the system”. But that aside, I rearranged the plan to what it is now, where all pre-reqs are taken at Texas State. </p>

<p>My problem with this though is that my foundation science are a little spread out. My question is, will I have any problems course-work wise with my BIOs and Gen Chems being separated by a summer, and my Physics being separated by a full year? </p>

<p>I understand that the coursework is packed and intensive, but without summers are a 5th year, I don’t have much choice. Besides, I am prepared to dedicate what is needed to accomplish my goal. Its about the end game, right?</p>

<p>Also, in the spreadsheet you’ll see 2 BIOs with (o) in the name. These are Genetics and Microbiology. As I am over the required BIO hours, one of these courses can be dropped. However, with the MCAT2015 changes, I am unsure if I should risk dropping one. Thoughts? Also to note, Chem 4375 is Biochemistry.</p>

<p>With this plan, I am looking at writing the MCAT on January/February/March of my 4th year and applying to schools that May, taking the following year as a gap year.</p>

<p><a href=“https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9d0Bw46t6EiSzJrMjlQM3JHVHM/edit?usp=sharing[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9d0Bw46t6EiSzJrMjlQM3JHVHM/edit?usp=sharing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thanks again for any and all help! If there is any confusion or questions for clarification, please feel free to reply and I will be more than happy to elaborate. This is a really great forum and peer-resource. I wish I had found it sooner!</p>

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<p>If you’re going to be taking coursework during the summers, when are you going do your ECs: research, physician shadowing, clinical volunteering, etc?</p>

<p>Also have you included sociology, psychology, stats and biochem in your schedule? (The course numbers are useless because people not familiar with UT-SM have no idea what classes they represent.) All those courses will be included on the MCAT starting in 2015.</p>

<p>I notice you have AP and CLEP credits listed. Please be aware that no med school will accept CLEP credits for any pre-req–even if your college does, and not all med schools will accept APs for pre-reqs. </p>

<p>TMDSAS has its course requirements here:</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/medical/education_Requirements.html[/url]”>https://www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/medical/education_Requirements.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thanks for the reply! </p>

<p>ECs during school include:
-Athletic Training (work practices, games, etc.)
-A peer education group in which we give presentations related to general social issues such as alcohol, sex, mental health, etc to classes, dorm halls, and greek groups.
-Associated Student Government - Currently Freshman Council, but intend to be a senator in coming years.
-AT club that focuses on volunteer service within the community of San Marcos</p>

<p>ECs outside of school:
I am currently an NREMT-B, and will be receiving state licensure for EMT-B within the next week. With this I will work for the local EMS system during the school year as part-time and hopefully full-time over the summer. In addition, it puts me in a good spot for a TA position in some AT classes related to acute/emergency care. </p>

<p>Question: Would it be more beneficial, in the eyes of medical schools, for me to work as an ER Tech or as an EMT on an ambulance? Both are possible, and both will probably happen at some point, it just matters which I will fully commit to. </p>

<p>I understand the class codes being irrelevant to y’all, I was more worried about the science classes of bio, physics, and chem, as the other classes (stat, gen, microbio, etc) are easier to fit since they are one semester and without lab. CHEM 4375 is Biochem, BIO 2400 is Micro, BIO 2450 is Genetics, PSY 1300 is Psychology. </p>

<p>The only AP credits I received related to medical school are MATH 2328 (stat) and ENG 1310/1320, which are the 2 general comps. These, along with the other courses, are accepted by medical schools because they are not lump some credits and are recognized individually on my official transcript. (I’ve confirmed with Baylor College of Medicine, my pre-med advisor, and my academic advisor). Also, none of the pre-med pre-reqs are CLEPed. I’m not green enough to do that, I promise!</p>

<p>By your post you seem to recommend Biochem and not Genetics or Microbio. Do you believe these are not necessary? Also, right now I am not taking Sociology because I believe Psy is touching on it enough that I will be able to self-teach it with MCAT prep work. If this is very ill advised, however, I could try and put it in. As it is not a pre-req, would it be a negative thing to put it in over the summer?</p>

<p>Thanks for your input!</p>

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<p>While this is generally true, it’s not true in all cases. Some medical school will not accept AP credits even if they appear on your transcripts as course equivalents. Please consult teh MSAR for details. </p>

<p>I strongly recommend Biochem. It is REQUIRED by several TX med schools and will comprise ~30% of the biological sciences questions on the 2015 MCAT.</p>

<p>Please read the Preview Guide for 2015 MCAT before deciding you can self-study for Soc.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Not saying you can’t, just you need to know what’s encompassed by the exam.</p>

<p>Also some medical schools are already adding psych and soc (or at least 8 hours of social sciences) as pre-reqs. Don’t assume that you won’t have to take it. Pre-reqs can and do change from year-to-year. I think next year you’ll likely to see pre-req changes posted at most schools as med schools try to align their pre-reqs with the new MCAT content.</p>

<p>RE: ER vs Ambulance service—that’s entirely up to you.</p>

<p>Your ECs are missing some key activities. You still need research experience (part time in a research lab for at least one year or one summer full time @ 40 hr/week) and physician shadowing.</p>

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<p>Hopefully they won’t make the pre-req change until I’m gone. If they do, sociology should be the only class I’d have to take, which isn’t too bad of a mark up.</p>

<p>My advisor said it was best to “dive in with both feet”, doing either all work or all research. Is being an ER Tech or EMT, which both work right under a physician, not enough? </p>

<p>Either way, this is what that gap year is for. I’m sure there is some sort of research opportunity on this campus. Or is it too late by then?</p>

<p>And just to clarify, my original concern was about splitting BIO, Gen CHEM, and PHYS the way they are in the plan. What is your opinion on this?</p>

<p>And again, thank you so much for the help. Your insight is very much appreciated!</p>

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<p>“I’m sure there is some sort of research opportunity on this campus.”
-Not enough to think this way. Start contacting people, get this opportunity. It may be easy or it may be not so easy.
But you are only a freshman, so you have time. Do you have a reason for a gap year? Keep in mind, it pospones your MD salary by whole year - translation is: your gap year is not free, it is about $200k+. You should have a very valid reason to plan for a gap year.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, my reason is my current degree and how it combines with the pre-med pre-reqs. If I could avoid a gap year without risking the whole application, trust me, I would. I just don’t feel comfortable dropping athletic training, simply out of fear of not making the cut.</p>

<p><a href=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidEZiS3gtZjhkQ29Kb1htMkpheERBLUE&usp=sharing#gid=0[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidEZiS3gtZjhkQ29Kb1htMkpheERBLUE&usp=sharing#gid=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Sorry for the double post. Most of my questions have been along the lines of “Would med schools think less of me if…”, but I am not sure what or how else to ask.</p>

<p>Biochem, Microbio, and Genetics are not pre-reqs and are mostly recommended for the MCAT. Currently, these courses are all that prevent me from taking the MCAT a year early and not taking a gap year. Would it be alright to take them over a summer?</p>

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<p>Got to br fearless going to Med. School. It is your decision though. But be at least psychologically prepared for very very cruel schedules and unreal amount of study hours. No fear or you are done before you even start.
Anyway, my D. and peole around her had pretty cruel schedule in UG and it served her well in Med. School to have great time management skills. However, she did drop her sport (the one that she loved and was involved competitively since she was 5 y o and still holds many of her team records…16 years later). She did not have time even for club sport. But she had 2 minors and graduated with one of them. You are the only one who can assess your time though. D. did everything, all ECs during school year and she also worked during school year. She did practically nothing during summers, just enjoyed her time with friends mostly. This is just for references if you need to plan ahead.</p>

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<p>D. mentioned Genetics being helpful, she did not take Biochem before MCAT. But she took the old MCAT. Cannot advise you on this. You are planning way too far though. Plan to survive for couple years with superior GPA, as close to 4.0 as possible, then see where you are and what entails. This is your goal for the first semester freshman year and for all others, taking one at a time. MCAT will wait until you are ready to plan for it. Right now you are NOT.</p>

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<p>Wrong. Biochem is ALREADY a pre-req at a half of TX med schools. (And about 25 other non-TX schools.) I fully expect it to be a universal pre-req for those who start med school in 2015 or after.</p>

<p>And as for pre-req changes–many schools have already announced that starting for those entering Fall 2015, you need to meet new requirements. You can’t “hope” pre-reqs won’t change–you need to check the admission webpages every 4-6 months and keep current what’s actually required. Don’t assume your pre-med advisor knows—not all of them know what the heck they’re talking about.</p>

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<p>It’s NOT enough. You still need some research and you still need physician shadowing. Working under a physician is NOT the same as following them thru the day and seeing how they interact with patients, peers and other hospital staff members. Working in the ER dept or on an ambulance crew, you get a very limited view of medical practice. (I know this because my med student was was a working EMT-I [which has a much broader scope of practice/responsibilities than a EMT-B] before she applied to med school. She was told that her EMT experience is all well and good, but NOT a substitute for either research or physician shadowing.)</p>

<p>RE: all work or all research—I have 2 successful pre meds (one is currently a MS3, the other has had multiple med schools interviews already this cycle and has more scheduled) Neither was “all work or all research”. Both had both. </p>

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<p>Risky assumption. Many university research labs–due to liability and funding issues will not permit non-students to work there. (Unless they are full time paid research assts. And without any prior lab experience or specialize lab skills–why would any lab manager want to hire you when s/he could easily find a dozen recent grads who have these? This is not an exaggeration. When younger child’s undergrad thesis advisor posted a single lab asst position, she received more 65 resumes! And from graduates of top schools like Yale, Duke and Penn.)</p>

<p>Also consider if you are taking a single gap year and applying immediately after graduation, you won’t be able to list your lab experience on your application since it won’t have happened yet.</p>

<p>~~~~~</p>

<p>But to your chief question–splitting up your pre-reqs:</p>

<p>1) some schools will question this, esp if you take pre-reqs during the summers as it looks like you either are: a) trying to avoid hard classes at your home school; or b) cannot handle a really tough workload. </p>

<p>2) the other issue is your retention of the material. There seems to be very little carry-over between Bio 1 and Bio 2. The same is not true for physics, chem or Ochem. Unless you are willing to spend time reviewing and relearning the first semester of material before starting the second, it could negatively impact your ability to score well in the second half of the class.</p>

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<p>@MiamiDAP: Thank you for sharing that experience. I am say antsy about planning it because I am already a semester behind with a very inflexible schedule. However, I see your point in timing it more on my GPA than on when I plan to take the MCAT. If 3 labs in one semester is just too much and my GPA is showing it, I simply need to slow down. Good perspective. </p>

<p>@WayOutWestMom: Sorry, I keep saying Biochem isn’t a pre-req. I understand that it is. I just keep thinking of the main BIO, CHEM, and PHYSs as “pre-reqs”. I’ll keep that in check. At that, I will definitely be checking the admissions pages of the schools I’m interested in every semester or quarter, just to keep tabs on pre-req changes. It wouldn’t be the end-all if they changed anyway. And I see your point on the importance of lab experience on the early side of things, perhaps with work and volunteer commitments being the focus of the gap year instead. </p>

<p>On the course work splitting. Would you suggest that I swap the position of my BIOs and my PHYSs? ie, give BIO the full year split instead of the single summer split, giving the smaller split to PHYS for retention purposes. Without pushing everything back a semester or doing summer school, I do not see any other possibility. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the input, both of y’all. The hasty yet quality replies are exactly why I gave this forum a shot!</p>

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<p>Keeping the physics semesters closer together is probably the better choice.</p>

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<p>I’m starting to convince myself of this, especially after reading the course descriptions and comparing them. I’ll be double checking tomorrow with a peer mentor, but I think I will be making that switch.</p>

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<p>I’m narrowing the schedule down a little more. This will probably be my last question about the coming semester. Below I’ve linked 2 new plans, which are similar except for the arrangement of BIO, PHYS, and CHEM. Here are my 2 questions:</p>

<p>1) Is summer school at the same university as regular classes still frowned upon by med schools as “summer school”, despite being 2 lectures/labs in the exact lab with the exact professor as in during the regular academic year?</p>

<p>2) Texas State does the Summer I/Summer II system, each session lasting 5 weeks. What if I were to take PHYS I in Summer I and PHYS II in Summer II? Schedule wise this is possible, but is this ill advised do to “looks”?</p>

<p>Use of only 1 summer session:
<a href=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidENOeHhsSWlRbWtndjVKV1phZFdBaXc&usp=sharing[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidENOeHhsSWlRbWtndjVKV1phZFdBaXc&usp=sharing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Use of 2 summer sessions in single summer:
<a href=“https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidFdnU0tVZzFlSllTbHJVaWtIano5T2c&usp=sharing[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atd0Bw46t6EidFdnU0tVZzFlSllTbHJVaWtIano5T2c&usp=sharing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>Do not take pre-reqs in a summer. More so, summer should be relaxed time, sleep in time, time with your friends. None of it will be part of your life while at Med. School and ever again if you get to be an MD. Enjoy while it lasts. You will tell yourslef later, “good that I did”</p>