Commuting from home to save money for future grad school, college counselor disagrees

Parents Forum
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<p>UV - I think you have a fine plan except I would suggest modifying one aspect. You say:<br>

Our (senior) D is now putting together her applications. At this moment (17! sheesh!) she doesn’t particularly want to stay here at the local in-state option, despite the fact that she could live on the campus if she chose (from whence she could launch rocks the 3 miles onto our house :)). So she has a lot of OOS options on her list which I consider more-or-less academically equivalent to the Local U. We don’t care if she goes somewhere else as long as it is academically similar in quality and “affordable”. </p>

<p>Why limit the boys by saying an OOS option would need to be Ivy League? There may be OOS options which would be the same price or less than Boulder. Why not just set a minimum academic criteria and a maximum cost and let them look around to see what there is?</p>

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<p>To add to what nottelling said:</p>

<p>For your boys to get the full benefit out of college as commuters, each of them needs to be free to go to the campus and come home on his own individual schedule. </p>

<p>Thus, having them commute would seem to require 3 cars.</p>

<p>If they were living on campus, they would require 0 cars.</p>

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<p>Good point. My son applied to our state flagship and to an OOS school (which is easier to get admitted to). The OOS school gave him a merit scholarship which would have made his cost of attendance almost exactly equal to that of our state university. (Obviously, the amount was not chosen by chance. These people know what they’re doing.) He chose the in-state school, but there would have been no problem if he had chosen the other one.</p>

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<p>We have a deadline of November 4 to have their final interest list. I didn’t put any limits on how many schools they can apply to.</p>

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<p>And herein lies the issue: I made somehow clear to the kids they need to make a case for us if they want us to chip in our EFC on a school they will have to take loans to attend. </p>

<p>Admission at Stanford or USC? Sure, we’ll make the finances work. </p>

<p>Going to Florida for a school of similar or lower rankings without making a very compelling argument about why there and not here? We are not willing to pay.</p>

<p>Less extreme cases are open to discussion, but they are aware unless they get substantial merit aid somewhere else, our EFC is not automatically “transferable”, meaning they cannot freely choose their school considering how much we can pay and how much they can be offered loans. </p>

<p>It was a bit of a let down since they were expecting we’d say “you have US$ xyz from us, make it work”, which is the usual way we let them choose things like summer activities, paid extracurriculars etc. But I’m just not enabling them to borrow as much as they want, at least not now. Maybe its tough love, but it is really for their own good.</p>

<p>I’m actually amused how much debt a 18-year old can sign up for at such young age!</p>

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<p>They all have cars, since I live on a sparsely populated mountain slope and you can’t realistically get out of there by other means than cars (well, you can cycle downhill but coming back is another story…)</p>

<p>So I could think of letting them live on-campus, but then no private cars for them (insurance would skyrocket) and also only limited parental shuttle from campus (meaning no calls home at random to ask for a ride like it was before they got their licenses).</p>

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<p>They are free to do that, provided they can equalize the costs with scholarships, not loans (I could live up with subsidized loans if their school choice really warrants it). The basic trap I want to avoid them falling in is: slightly better out of state university or private college throws an “aid package” that is mostly loans. I’m just being very averse to loans, since we saved a lot for them not to have to get loans for college.</p>

<p>I’m trying to rationalize that a debt-free graduation might be a bigger professional opportunity for them than a better, but not overwhelmingly better, school choice that comes with a US$ 40, 60, 100K debt together with the diploma.</p>

<p>If one of them (especially Son 1) really founds a very good program that would require up to 20-25K in loans, we’re even prepared to let him take those subsidized loans. But it must be justifiable. For a 6-digit debt burden for undergraduate program, nothing will convince me of that. Not even Yale.</p>

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<p>It’s been our experience in the midwest (of which I consider Colorado to be part of) that for B and better students with above average test scores 26 or better ACT, it is usually LESS expensive to attend a private school or at worst, comes in at the same cost as most state schools. Don’t limit your choices based on the “sticker price” of ANY school. We are pretty much full pay for one child, we have twins going off this year and from all estimates, that money gets divided between the two of them so, private schools will probably net out a lot less than most state schools. With 3 going off to college at the same time, your results will be even better most likely.</p>

<p>When we have run the Net Price Calculators THE most expensive school they looked at, $60,000/year expensive, came in as their second least expensive school, net, because of their aid program. You just never know.</p>

<p>Personally I would never consider community college for kids like your kids, however, our CC system isn’t very good. Also, one example, one school our kids applied to this year sent their merit award letter yesterday which had them pegged as “transfer” students some how. They were awarded $10,000 each as a transfer student. DS called to check on that and it was a mistake, as incoming first year students, they will get $18,000. That ends up costing LESS then it would have to send them to CC for 2 years and then transferring to this school.</p>

<p>Also, merit and financial aid awards are higher for those living on campus then living at home so keep that in mind as well. </p>

<p>Long story short, until they get test scores back, don’t sweat the costs of the schools. Just visit schools to get a feel for what they like, campus size, etc. Once they have test scores back, then you can start crunching numbers for affordability. If’ they have taken an ACT or SAT test, use those numbers in the NPC to see where you fall. I can’t imagine that with 3 going off to college together, for 4 years, that you wouldn’t qualify for some pretty substantial financial aid, assuming you aren’t independently wealthy and don’t have an extra $150,000+ times 4 years laying around :D.</p>

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<p>But what about the case where a similar-quality (however that is defined) school is the same or lower price as commuting to Boulder (net after scholarships and non-loan financial aid)? If the commuting to Boulder scenario is safe for admission and affordability, then it makes a good baseline, but don’t automatically rule out potentially less expensive out-of-state or private schools.</p>

<p>For example, there are some large automatic for stats scholarships:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>UpperValley–the “aid” package that is “mostly loans” ARE the federal loans, they will send information on other loans you can take out to cover your expected family contribution but those are NOT part of the student aid package. I agree, taking out the private loans is where kids/parents get into trouble and we pretty much have the same philosophy as you. Right now, with guaranteed merit aid from the 20 schools our twins have applied to between the two of them, their MOST expensive option is coming in at about $15,000, 2 state schools, the rest private schools, this is ONLY merit aid awards too, well under the instate cost at U of CO and looking at their website, minimal merit aid to reduce that cost.</p>

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<p>It is true that being on-campus can be an academic advantage, particularly in a demanding major. Is there any option of putting the three brothers together in a rental, paying less than dormitory fees, while still making it easy to take part in those 2 a.m. problem sets (and getting out from under the cost of three cars)?</p>

<p>I had one friend who commuted undergrad, got very involved in campus, graduated with a 4.0, and went on to an Ivy professional school. He always had a sleeping bag in his trunk, and would sleep on someone’s floor on-campus after those 2 a.m. problem sets.</p>

<p>I had another friend who went to Boston for college. When his younger brother joined him (at a different Boston school), the parents bought a condo for them to use. I think it was a 2 bedroom unit, and they took in two classmates as paying roommates. It was cheaper for the family in the long run. I believe the parents resold the condo at a profit after graduation. The rent-paying roommates helped. This has all sorts of potential pitfalls, but it worked for them.</p>

<p>I have another friend who was a top candidate out of HS, started at community college for financial reasons, and has always sailed forward, no matter what the people around her were doing. She finished at a near-Ivy, debt-free, and is extremely successful.</p>

<p>Parental shuttle is a whole issue to be addressed if it arises, regardless of where kids go to school. I’m guessing that Boulder is not a suitcase school. One friend’s kid found himself at a private suitcase school 6 hours from home, and wanted his parents to schlep him home on the weekends. That is 24 hours of driving per weekend for the parents. He transferred.</p>

<p>About the other schools that are options, I think your approach with your kids makes sense (find out what you might want, let us know why, and let us know what it would cost). But it seems that when you have great stats, there are two ways to play that card – use it get yourself in the door somewhere fabulous, where you will be expected to pay, or use it to be the prize recruit somewhere less fabulous, and get lots of money. It seems relatively rare that someone gets lots of merit money somewhere fabulous. I have one friend whose kid with great stats went the latter route, with an eye to saving money for med school. At last report, she was straining to keep her eye on the prize, and pump herself up to achieve academically, when she felt surrounded by classmates who were not of her caliber. (And, indeed, she was brought in and given merit money so that she would stand out from those other kids, improve the school’s stats, and hopefully lead and inspire those peers.) She discovered, perhaps disconcertingly, that it was part of her character and personality that she needed stiffer competition to do her best. The family was concerned, at last report, that her med school candidacy might suffer for this. If they had all understood this about her in 11th and 12th grade, she might have gone elsewhere. She was the opposite of my friend who went the CC route and prevailed.</p>

<p>Ultimately, the kid is responsible for how they respond to the situation they find themselves in, and the parents can only do so much. I still feel that we must all look at finances and set reasonable limits. Boulder may very well hit the “sweet spot” for your kids, all factors considered. But perhaps (for the high stats kid, especially) there is another place that will challenge him and polish him even more, at an equally affordable rate. You seem to have told the kids that the door is open for something like that. Makes sense.</p>

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Evidence? Most big merit offers are made prior to enrollment…how would the school even know whether the student will live on campus?</p>

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<p>I wrote this several months ago. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html&lt;/a&gt; One of the cousins went through the college process. In this case, the communty college option was actually more expensive than the local state u option and a local school, and by taking either of those other two options, transfere issues and costs were eliminated. And when you throw in the fact that a car is not needed if the student lived on campus at either of those school, but would need the car for CC, those two schools were the most cost effective choices.</p>

<p>However, there is also the heart that needs to be addressed, and Cousin J ended up at a private. Just as a follow up, there are some issues that cropped up. His dorm costs more than the estimate because he got a nicer overflow room since the school ran out of the less expensive doubles. He lost his bag with his contact lens stash and broke his glasses so he had to get replacements which was a major cost item. Couldn’t find a work study job that fit the schedule and is working far less at an inconvenient place at the moment. Wants to come home before Thanksgving but has yet to find a cost effective way to do so. Roommate is well to do and makes it hard to live frugally as he orders out pizza and picks up things, and shares so Cousin J feels he should also do in kind once in a while. College tends to use print out packs rather than books, so one does have to buy them and they are expensive. Book cost is over estimate. Cell phone service is very sketchy and so he changed carriers. </p>

<p>On the homefront, sibling was accepted to an expensive but very nice program of his interest. No scholarship money available. Tree needed to be cut down. My Cousin’s hours were cut–she is looking for a nother job, though the cut was not drastic. Wrting on the wall does not look good. There is fear that next years health care plan costs are going to go way up, that is the projection. Cousin’s Dh needs expensive work on a tooth that is causing trouble. House computer is wonky and sibling wants a new computer too. Fender bender meant deductible paid and worry of car insurance increase. Grandmother died–expensive trip to funeral last month. Cousin wants to make another trip there to help with final clearing of the house and to see Grandfather who is being relocated and having a hard time. Husbands cell phone broke–with insurance it was $100 to replace. Looks like getting extra hours these last few months of the year and early next year is going to be problematic. Housing for upper classment is even more expensive than frosh, and Cousin J isn’t sure he will find someone to share a cheap rental–his roommate and the kids he’s with are all well to do and are not stinting for next year’s housing, what little talk that is out there so early. Cousin J wants to join some groups, but there are costs involved in what he wants and they interfere with current job that has inflexible hours. </p>

<p>My Cousin is a bit down as she had some travel plans for next year, a major reunion is in the works, and her husband’s niece is getting married for a big shebang, both trips that will be difficult to do on the cheap. They are considering taking out a parent loan and hoping that things get a little bit better, but we all know that the college costs tend to go up about 5% and the school specifically states that students are expected to take increasing responsibility for the costs which probably means the aid is not going to cover that increase. Also one time scholarship received this year is as described…one time. Also summer employment place that has also given COusin J some hours during winter/spring breaks and whenever he could work is closing wihch means he needs to find another job for the summer plus during winter/Spring break instead of having something waiting right there. </p>

<p>But he loves the school, the courses, the academics, the professors, the kids, everything except that he can’t afford it easily.</p>

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<p>noimagination–because you put on the application if you are living on or off campus. If you say you are living on campus they make the award accordingly, If you change your mind and live off campus your award will be adjusted accordingly. Evidence, call any financial aid office and ask. If you live on campus and your proven expenses are say $20,000, that is what your award will be based on. If you live off campus, especially at home, your costs typically are tuition, books and some travel costs, so maybe $10,000. You award is based on that number. Run the numbers through the NPC on any school website or on the financial aid estimator on the FAFSA site.</p>

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<p>I don’t know about specific colleges,but when my kids were applying to independent high schools, I was told that we had a bit of an edge because we put down boarding for my oldest who was an athlete and I felt that he would have more study time if we cut the commute out for him. The boarding part of that school was expanding and wanted/needed more bodies. </p>

<p>ALso a friend of mine’s daughter some years ago got a package from Loyola U in the Chicago area for which she had indicated she was boarding. When she changed her mind, they cut her package significantly, more than the COA difference between commuting and boarding.</p>

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<p>^^ For schools meeting full demonstrated need, sure. But the process is not that automatic for all merit awards.</p>

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<p>Loyola does not meet full need.</p>

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<p>At the risk of oversharing (hope it is okay, I’m not sure about the money etiquette here, but since it is an anonymous forum - I didn’t see links for facebook profiles - I think it is ok, and apologize in advance and numbers should be kept out), this are our basic “guidance” numbers:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>EFC: 18,322 per student.</p></li>
<li><p>UC Boulder in-state:

</p></li>
<li><p>Amount we have budget on a specific fund for our children college years (everything, including their health care add-ons, car insurance if any, their personal spending allowances, money for summer activities/unpaid internships): 33.4K per son per year.</p></li>
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<p>This is a number my sons don’t know, though. This is like the absolute maximum we are willing to spend on them per year during 4 years, to give them the best possible start in life.</p>

<p>Although it might appear a lot, that was more like a product of concentrated savings effort, putting my wife’s share of an inheritance straight on the college fund etc. We did all that so that they don’t have to borrow money. Except if it is borrowing money for an Ivy/USC/Stanford and the likes. If one or more of them ends up using subsidized loans, our intention (not known to them now) is to make them an offer: we’ll pay their student subsidized loans (no interest during studies), up to what is left between our budget and our EFC + other payments, provided they graduate on time and keep good progress during college.</p>

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<p>Based on the numbers so far, I certainly don’t think it would hurt to give the top schools a try if the admissions stats and student interest are there. CU isn’t cheap in-state and you might get some generous financial aid.

Sorry, crossposted. I was referring to the post above yours.</p>

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<p>Note that Stanford and some of the Ivy League schools are more generous than typical with need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>Have you checked the net price calculators at various schools?</p>

<p>Also, if any of the students is a realistic applicant for Stanford and the like, he may be a realistic applicant for competitive full-ride scholarships like Park at NCSU, President’s at Georgia Tech, etc…</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to be rude, I am honestly curious. Why haven’t you sat down with your sons and had “the financial talk” yet? Your November 4 deadline has me thinking they are seniors, so it is time. If the max amount you are willing/able to spend on each son is set in stone, that is good information for them as THEY make the final decision on college. You and your wife have done a wonderful job of saving for each of them, now it is up to them to find schools where they will/might be accepted and can afford in that price range, either full fare or with merit. Have you talked to them about the “love thy safety” mantra? It is not a bad idea to start there and work your way up to matches and reaches.
You haven’t given us any info on SAT scores or the like, so it is impossible to advise you whether other schools might give merit aid. We also don’t know whether you will qualify for financial aid, with three starting I would expect you to qualify for some… Also, do the boys want to stay together or is it time for them to fly solo?
Side note–I think 45 minutes one way is too far to be a realistic commute. One and a half hours a day even with no traffic is quite a chunk out of a college student’s day.
Good luck, application season is quite a ride and you have it times 3!</p>

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<p>OP - have the S’s expressed interest in applying elsewhere? Where are they in all this?</p>