<p>I don’t think that is why they oppose it. It is because they don’t want the government to have a larger role in their health care decisions. That the government has not been able to figure out how to properly service the poor is an indication of why some lack confidence in the idea.</p>
<p>“I don’t think that is why they oppose it. It is because they don’t want the government to have a larger role in their health care decisions. That the government has not been able to figure out how to properly service the poor is an indication of why some lack confidence in the idea.”</p>
<p>I don’t see the 65 and over crowd opposing the government’s role in their health insurance so I see that argument as a straw dog, tbh. I believe it’s really because people do not want to pay more in taxes for health insurance for more poor people.</p>
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<p>More than 60% of personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills. And – here’s the really scary part – most of those people had insurance when they got sick. The illness led to job loss, which led to insurance loss. These are not deadbeats. These are people who got kicked when they were already down. It could happen to almost any of us.</p>
<p>This is one of the major reasons why tying insurance to employment is just about the stupidest thing we could do.</p>
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<p>Ask any elderly person if they think the private market would do a better job of insuring them than the government does. You’ll get an earful.</p>
<p>And actually, the question of government health insurance isn’t relevant to discussions about ACA. ACA is not Medicare-for-all. What ACA does is force the private for-profit health insurance industry to treat Americans with some fairness and decency.</p>
<p>“most of those people had insurance when they got sick.”</p>
<p>Which is also why the removal of the lifetime cap under ACA is so important because even if you don’t lose your job you can still be wiped out because of the cap.</p>
<p>I think a fair number of seniors have had issues finding doctors and the cynic in me doesn’t put a lot of stock in their opinion being good authority for what is best for my grandchildren. </p>
<p>If the ACA saves us money with good quality care, then everyone will be happy. We will see.</p>
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<p>I had a tennis doubles match a few years ago. I went diving for a wide shot and got tangled up in a side net and fell. I went to the locker room and cleaned up the cuts and then went back out and finished the set. After the match, I realized that I had a sprained left wrist, bruise above an eye, a bruised chest and a cut on my leg. So I went to CVS and picked up some supplies to deal with these things. The sprained wrist took about six weeks to heal.</p>
<p>Perhaps I go a little overboard in avoiding doctors. Maybe due to some medical training at a prior job and a lot of time in medical encyclopedias.</p>
<p>Perhaps more training in first aid and recognizing what to do when might control costs a little better. We have free training programs at work for anyone that wants to volunteer to be a first responder.</p>
<p>The problem with finding doctors could be fixed by increasing the supply of doctors.</p>
<p>Bay, I’m sure there will be lots and lots of problems, probably for years until this all gets sorted out. Single-payer would have been far more efficient and far less expensive. But that was never an option.</p>
<p>No, it will not be perfect. If we want for a perfect solution, we’ll never do anything.</p>
<p>“I think a fair number of seniors have had issues finding doctors and the cynic in me doesn’t put a lot of stock in their opinion being good authority for what is best for my grandchildren”</p>
<p>But the reality is that private insurance companies have no desire in insuring anyone but healthy people. They only reason they cover employer based health insurance is because the premiums from all the healthy people in a large group offset the cost of the few who require a lot of medical care. </p>
<p>We have Medicare because no private insurance company in their right mind wants to insure that group. Who do you think would insure all the elderly if not for a program like medicare? </p>
<p>It’s also the same reason no insurance company would (before made to under ACA) insure anyone with a pre-existing condition. Your grandchildren (or future grandchildren) could easily be a part of the latter group at some point in their lives and through no fault of their own and they’d be SOL without ACA.</p>
<p>I can’t speak to your post, emilybee, because I have honestly never known anyone who has died from a treatable condition due to lack of care (other than intentionally). My daughter once had a condition requiring expensive treatment, that our insurance company paid for. When the doctor initially told me what was needed and how expensive it was, she said that if we didn’t have insurance coverage she could get my daughter onto a pilot program that would pay for it. I don’t know how common this is with children’s care. I have to believe that I would be hearing about children dying everyday if it was common for children who needed lifesaving care to not get it. I do read a lot and consider myself fairly well informed.</p>
<p>“I can’t speak to your post, emilybee, because I have honestly never known anyone who has died from a treatable condition due to lack of care.”</p>
<p>Your grandchildren will not always be young. </p>
<p>Many poor people do die because things like their diabetes, asthma, heart conditions etc, go untreated and many others go bankrupt and have their credit ruined. Many also cannot afford even the cost of the prescription drugs to treat their conditions let alone medical care.</p>
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<p>[Toothache</a> Leads to Boy’s Death - ABC News](<a href=“Toothache Leads to Boy's Death - ABC News”>Toothache Leads to Boy's Death - ABC News)</p>
<p>Kid had a cavity and infection. Poor family could not afford the $80 dental bill. Kid later got a brain infection. Despite two surgeries and $250,000 in medical care, kid died.</p>
<p>Granted, this is dental care, which is usually considered separately from other health care for these discussions, but it does indicate that poor people might not be able to afford the cost of even lower cost visits to health care providers.</p>
<p>ucb
That story sounds familiar - I think we discussed it way back when on CC when it happened in 2007. If I remember correctly, the boy had Medicaid coverage, but his mother didn’t take him to the dentist for some reason.</p>
<p>I think it is clear that the poor may have less access to needed health care, may get less health care and may suffer for it. I do know that in our county, schoolchildren can get all of their immunizations free and an annual physical for free, so there are services available. </p>
<p>The reasons for worse health of the poor are myriad, not just that they don’t have insurance. Life in general is tougher when you are poor rather than rich. We do have a very high standard of living here in general, though, for everyone.</p>
<p>Er, no, a trap door does not open under a person dxed with a life threatening condition that can’t afford to pay for the medical care for it, ending the situation on the spot. It takes time before they die from lack of proper treatment. Not a cut and dry thing. But if you look at the Survival rates of those with certain conditions and have them split in groups of those who have the insurance/means to pay and those who don’t the numbers are radically different. </p>
<p>My mother’s meds cost her 5% of her monthly stipend and she gets little over $1500 a month. Throw in some other things to keep her healthy and you can see that she doesn;t have much of a margin in terms of living expenses. That she lives well, has teeth, glasses, and sees a dentist, eye doctor regularly is because we are subsidizing and providing those things for her We’ve kicked granny in the teeth and blinded her with healthcare policies in those area. They can’t get their eye/teeth cared for without paying out of pocket.</p>
<p>Bay, I don’t personally know anyone who’s died from lack of insurance either. But then, I don’t think I know many people who don’t have insurance. And yet they exist – 50 million of them. So my personal experience isn’t indicative of much, when it comes to the big picture.</p>
<p>There have been numerous studies on the higher mortality rates of the uninsured. I don’t know why that should surprise us. The uninsured are less likely to have a regular doctor who can follow their health concerns over time, they often go without screenings and preventive care, often delay or forego needed care for illness, and pay more for the care they do get meaning they can buy less care with their limited resources. </p>
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<p>[New</a> study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/]New”>New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage — Harvard Gazette)</p>
<p>Spoke with a friend today who said her sister works for a small retail chain and is working 40 hours per week with no health insurance. To avoid ACA the company notified all wage employees they could only work 30 hours per week. The working poor get poorer because of the government.</p>
<p>I have known a lot of people who have high deductible, catastrophic only insurance , or insurance that does not pay much, none of them anywhere near poverty level, just on budgets, maybe trying to cut down on spending, having too much debt, too many expenses already…you know what I mean, and they often hesitate for expense reasons about going to see a doctor, to the ER, getting treatment in hopes that thiings will get better, even when they really should go. I’ve made our medical needs the highest priority, but even so, sometimes the idea of another bill makes me hesitate. My sons are really afraid of running up medical charges after each of them had some injury/episode where they got walloped with the expense. My one son cut his hand on glass, pretty bad, bloody cut, but fortunately no essential sinews,nerves, muscles damaged, but the charges for ER, Ambulance, hand specialist came to a small fortune. A broken nose on the part of the other did the same. I couldn’t get one to the doctor for what turned out to be a broken foot because they did not want to pay what they guessed it would cost even with good insurance. Found a preferred provider podiatrist and went only after it was pretty clear that the damage was not just a bruise–yes, broken. </p>
<p>So as a family with good insurance and high income, making medical treatment the highest priority for use of funds, we still flinch and feel the sting of medical expenses. And none of us have any pressing, expensive issue. Only my mother is on any meds. </p>
<p>A family without the insurance and income with all sorts of needs competing for funds is going to hesitate more and even downright ignore symptoms. The cost does make a huge difference. </p>
<p>I’ve mentioned that I have a friend whose DD needs a very expensive drug that her very good insurance refuses to cover. it helps control her seizures which without that drug constant. With it much better than anything else and they have tried it all. This will probably outgrow its usefulness too, bur for now it gives reprieve. Problem is the cost. So they get it from Canada, beg for it from the company, and pay for some of it. My friend is constantly looking for “drug mules” that can bring some of the stuff here. Even so, there is sometimes a gap, because it is that expensive. So, yes, the cost is a big issue. </p>
<p>But then there is the other side too…one of our oldest friends heads the drug company that came up with the drug and controls the patent on it, and he has his say too.</p>
<p>cpt, that part about “drug mules”… This great country should hang its head in SHAME, that such a thing is necessary.</p>
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<p>The working poor get poorer because we have developed a dysfunctional insurance system which has as its highest priority protecting the profits of the insurance industry.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m curious – do you find it acceptable that the employees of that small retain chain have no insurance now? </p>
<p>Also, if that small retail chain is cutting people’s hours NOW because of ACA, they are lying to their employees. The law doesn’t go into effect for another 10 months, and I bet they know that.</p>
<p>LasMa–my thoughts exactly.</p>