Comparing vibe and fit for selective conservatories for music comp

College Majors Music Majors
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Seeking feedback at a few conservatories mentioned below. Thanks in advance!

My son is applying to music composition programs. He has a portfolio of primarily classical compositions that he’s using for prescreens. He is a strong jazz pianist, strong in theory, not a classical player, not a great sight reader. He’s also interested in production/scoring and would like some opportunities in that area, but comp is his #1 focus.

1440 SAT, 5 AP’s, 4.4 weighted GPA. Looking for merit - academic or music, and possibly need-based aid at private schools.

So far he’s applied to:

Temple

Miami Frost

Lawrence U

Oberlin

Loyola New Orleans

These are some more serious and selective schools that we are considering applying to in the next few weeks and looking for feedback on. We will probably only choose 1, maybe 2. He’s been less interested in a serious conservatory all along, which is why we didn’t spend more time researching these out sooner, but now that we’ve done the Early Action first batch, we’re thinking he’ll throw his hat in one of these rings:

Peabody

NEC

Blair

MSM

Hoping to get information on vibe, level of “seriousness”, level of flexibility, collaborative vs competitive community, at these schools. My son is not interested in a really intense, demanding environment. He is creative and experimental. He creates his own rigor in his music-making and spends many hours working on his projects, but he does not do well with an overload of imposed, structured rigor. He has some executive functioning challenges and needs to maintain a reasonable schedule with enough downtime in order to be successful.

We also looked into Bard and UNT, but they are not good fits for him musically, though financially they would have worked out.

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Of the above mine only applied to Frost so I cannot offer any insight on the other conservatories. But mine also is a very bright student (High SAT’s and standardized scores) with ADHD and some serious executive functioning issues…I too worried about sending him off to college with the type of schedule described to me at open houses, auditions, etc…I am floored at how he rose to the occasion. He is more busy than he has ever been in his life…i am talking 7am-10pm busy between academics, concerts, gigs, rehearsals, recordings, etc…and work, yet he is the most organized he has ever been. Go figure. I wish yours the best of luck on his journey!!

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Thank you! My guy is having a tough time with the high school schedule plus lessons, gigs, college apps, so I’m definitely wary of something like a 7am-10pm college schedule, but perhaps they really do just rise to the occasion once they’re out of the house?!

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I am confused as to why you feel the first batch is not “serious” or “selective.” It seems you consider free-standing conservatories to be more of both. But from what you describe the first batch seems like a better fit honestly. Why is Bard not a fit?

The ideal for a kid like this might be Boston Conservatory which merged with Berklee so it is Boston Conservatory at Berklee. Students can have classical composition at BoBo and do film scoring and production at Berklee. Merit aid might not be enough though.

Oberlin, Lawrence and Frost would seem to offer the environment he wants too. Loyola is great for jazz and good for production too…I don’t know about their classical side.

Has he considered a BA program with music major, funded lessons for credit, and performance for credit? The schedule is a little more manageable and grads go to grad school just like the BM grads. Has he read the Double Degree Dilemma essay pinned at the top of this music major forum? Does he want total immersion in music?

Conservatories may have rigorous theory, solfege, sight reading etc. BA programs have the same subjects but might be more accessible. Multifaceted kids can do well in a BA degree program in the right environment, where they are not quite as “siloed” in one focus area as at a conservatory.

Financial need may be better fulfilled at a college program as well, though of course merit is always a possibility at any of your schools listed.

At the undergrad level my kid looked for diversity in aesthetic (freedom to find one’s one) and opportunities to get pieces played. Funding for summer programs was also important.

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My kid went to Temple and received $$$ for merit, making it equivalent to our state flagship. He did play 3 years in the New Music ensemble which featured work from the composition students. The atmosphere at Boyer was very collegial and he enjoyed his time there.

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All great points! My impression is that some of the stand alone conservatories are more selective for music and may have more serious music environments. I certainly could be wrong.

I also think that the schools he’s already applied to are best fits. I am wondering if he shouldn’t also choose a conservatory to apply to, but I am not so sure so seeking input.

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Bard is not a fit because the conservatory is just classical and he does want to play with and collaborate with strong jazz musicians. If he went for the BA at Bard in the music program, he wouldn’t have access to all the classical comp the conservatory offers - some access, but not four years of it. He is hoping to start comp lessons right away freshman year.

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That first batch are conservatories so I am confused. They are serious and selective from what I know. In our experience there was more financial aid at schools affiliated with colleges but others may have had different experiences.

He will need grad school and kids at top grad schools come from all kinds of schools and backgrounds. Financials are important because grad school, even if funded fully, is tough financially.

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Great to know. We are close to Temple and he wants to go away, but we know it’s an amazing school for music.

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I have heard that Bard has a pretty “low wall” between college and conservatory. I know a composer, now a PhD, who did science in the college and had access to the conservatory (Not the double degree required of conservatory students). There is a parent who sometimes posts who can say more about Bard.

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Mine did…I would have classified him as a “hot mess” in high school…he has matured 10-fold. His schedule is insane and he thrives on it

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Just chiming in to mention that my daughter is a second-year VP student at Bard Conservatory. Many of her music classes are taken alongside college music majors and many of the faculty teach in both the conservatory and the college. I am not familiar, unfortunately, with the composition program; however, at least twice that I know of, my daughter has been approached by student composers asking whether she would perform their compositions. Has your son reached out to any of the jazz composition faculty?

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Thanks for this info! He did reach out to a composition faculty, and that person was not very responsive, so we could try someone else. I think my son is under the impression that if he wants a full classical comp experience, he’d need to be in the conservatory, but he’d also need to be a classical player, which he is not. We could delve into it more to be sure.

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Of all the disciplines in music, I think composition does not have to be in a conservatory. Just about every school has composition in their music curriculum. There is an argument to be made that composers benefit from studying art history, poetry, environmental science, archaeology, whatever interests them and inspires music.

A composer I know who is in their 30s’ recently said to me “Everything has to be conceptual these days. Noone just writes music.” At the post doc level this really is true. To get the prizes, residencies, fellowships that further career, projects need to be tied to a theme that is important: gun violence, climate, a painting, a poem, and so on.

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My son is not a composition student but from his descriptions of the composition faculty and students @compmom (who obviously knows composition directly) is right about that. Conservatories/music schools obviously have composition programs and can attract prominent composers, but my understanding of composition is that it is more academic then performance.

The key thing is going to be fit. One thing I have heard about composition is that departments can vary, and there are still departments that can be mired in orthodoxy, do it this way kind of things, which wouldn’t work for your son. Berklee might be a good fit because its program is not classically focused only, it has a wide variety of music programs/types/genres (downside is its size and cost may be a factor for your son/your family) . NEC (my son is an alum) in their publications claims to be encouraging cross genre stuff, not being in silos, but whether that encompasses composition I don’t know (as one example of what you might see out there).

I also agree a BA might give a composition student more latitutde in being curious, plus the experiences CM talks about. And yes, especially these days, music is more and more engaging the outside world/issues focused/etc, and themes are a big deal (though not entirely that new, most music written had themes in it, but these days much more externally driven for inspiration. Though my son’s group plays a commissioned piece whose themes are musical humor,so not entirely topical).

I suspect given your son’s nature that fit will be important, a department that is orthodox in some way, like classical only, or in style, would be a poor fit for him as described. I think that is going to be the key factor, that the people running/teaching in the department respect that kind of vision.

As far as the busy day thing, from personal experience there is a big difference between high school/traditional school and what music is like at the college/conservatory level. High school is a lot more rigid, kids are taking stuff they have to, not that drives them forward and the entire thing is very regimented. My S homeschooled because the rigidity, the time in school (and not to mention they had him running around with music stuff in the school day [academic prep school] so the poor kid had no time to breathe, and it was just too much when you added in homework. ).

There obviously is stuff in college you have to take, core courses or things like music theory most performance majors tolerate or hate IME (my son loved it, go figure), but a lot of it is stuff they are driven to do. Sweating over hours of homework in high school is not the same thing as practicing for hours or rehearsing (or for a composer, listening to music, reading something about music, or of course, composing). I think when the work load is around what he desires to do, it can be very, very different.

Hopefully others who know the comp departments at schools have more input, there are schools I suspect where your son wouldn’t do well based on my impressions (note, none of them are in your list of programs), but I am no expert so it wouldn’t be fair to share them here.

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Berklee might be a good fit because its program is not classically focused only, it has a wide variety of music programs/types/genres (downside is its size and cost may be a factor for your son/your family)

@old_music_prnt good suggestion but yes $$$$. Another option is Boston Conservatory for the classical composition . Since it has merged with Berklee BoCo students have access to the scoring, production and other resources at Berklee.

In terms of fit, we felt, at the undergrad level, diversity of aesthetic is important but then at grad level a more close fit to a particular aesthetic is crucial. Summer programs really help with that!

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Did he consider getting the Jazz Studies/Piano degree that’s heavy with lessons and ensembles and doing a grad Composition program? Just asking because so many of my son’s Jazz Studies friends take that route. Just throwing options out there if he wants to immerse himself playing and collaborating with strong jazz musicians. As an undergrad mine is constantly sitting in on composition, songwriting, etc and recording for them. Lots of collaboration amongst departments. Just a thought.

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Is there an opportunity to visit listed schools?

Best thing for the fit & vibe check. As everyone has different criteria. Talk to students in your major. Look at their events schedules, many conservatories broadcast their concerts or place recordings online. Level of collaboration and rigour comes through in programming, but being immersed in environment - shadowing a student, being on campus for a full day and an evening is the best.

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Chiming in to say Oberlin is absolutely a conservatory (it’s even in the name, haha). I am not sure I understand the separation between the first list and the second.

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Many posters seem to use the term “conservatory” for freestanding conservatories (but even that doesn’t explain the two batches). It looks to me like all of the first batch are conservatories.