Complicated HS course selection/registration question

Parents Forum
1

<p>I’m relatively new to CC. I’ve been lurking but haven’t posted much. Please go easy on me :-)</p>

<p>I have a question of whether D should cross-register outside language class as independent study. This won’t affect what she actually studies, just how it is recorded on her HS transcript. </p>

<p>D is currently freshmen. At her public school both Honors and AP classes are weighted with grade+1. For her freshmen year she has taken
Honors AlgebraII
Honors Freshman Physics
Honors English
Honors LatinII
Honors World History
Honors Orchestra
Wellness (Gym and Health combined)
She also took a Modern Hebrew class in an outside program that is accredited with the state. Since 9th graders aren’t allowed to sign up for Independent Study, she couldn’t get this put on her transcript, which it turns out is just as well. Wellness is Pass/Fail and she’s getting an A or better in the others, so her weighted GPA is well above 5.0. The outside Hebrew is not considered an honors class, and she’s getting B’s. She’s really into languages and linguistics, so studying Hebrew is very important to her. She doesn’t complain about grades to teachers, but her grades are based on 1 test per semester and she’s had the second highest grade among a class of 10 both times. She thinks its impossible to get an A without being Israeli. </p>

<p>For Soph, she signed up for
Honors PreCalc
Honors Chem
Honors English
Honors Latin III
AP Euro
Honors Orchestra</p>

<p>She’s also doing AP Physics B over the summer and will be self-studying for the AP exam throughout the year. The programs she’s doing this will send a transcript to her GC, but it won’t count for HS. Additionally she’s continuing the Hebrew program. While many kids in her school take a 7th class, (some take AP Physics) her load is already pretty heavy and we didn’t think taking an extremely difficult 7th class with fixed deadlines would be beneficial.</p>

<p>The question is whether or not she should have the Hebrew on her regular HS transcript as Independent Study and whether or not it should be taken pass/fail. The Hebrew high school provides its own transcript for college purposes, so the colleges will see the grade anyway. </p>

<p>The issues are as follows:

  1. If she doesn’t sign up for Independent Study, she will only have 6 classes, 5 of which are “solids”, which although is allowed, may not qualify as “the most difficult” workload, although she may be able to keep up her very high GPA. Many kids do this and use the “frees” to get homework done so that they have time for ECs and sports. </p>

<p>2) If she put the Hebrew as an Independent Study and accepted the grade from the Hebrew HS, it would most likely be a non-honors B, which is like an honors C. Its very difficult to get an A. This would be a hit on her GPA for no good reason.</p>

<p>3) If she put the Hebrew down as Independent Study but Pass/Fail, she would have a 7th class, but her GC may view her in a negative light for trying to game the system (which she would be doing, but none of this affects what she will actually be studying). </p>

<p>She sees herself eventually applying to the most competitive colleges and the high GPA and class rank seem very important. Which option do people think is best. </p>

<p>Thanks in advance</p>

2

<p>Option 2 - In the long run, a couple of GPA points will not hurt nearly as much as she thinks
I would imagine that her GC has a high opinion of her based on her work up to this point, which makes Option 2 even an easier choice</p>

<p>I would basically say: 2, 1, 3</p>

3

<p>Well based on her current grades, if the Hebrew had counted this year, the weighted GPA would drop from 5.20 to 4.88. I’m guessing class rank would drop from 98th percentile to 90th percentile, but that’s just a guess. Nonetheless, its a very competitive school. We really have no idea, but I suspect that there can’t be too many kids with GPAs higher than 5.2. </p>

<p>Any more opinions?</p>

4

<p>Another example of the stupidity of class ranking formulas. Even if she were to get an A, it would hurt her GPA. Let’s penalize a kid for taking an extra class. Duh?</p>

<p>I’d say 3. Encourage her to talk with her GC, explaining how difficult Hebrew is compared with her HS honors courses but how much she enjoys it (which is why she wants to take it P/F). Sounds like a pretty demanding schedule to me, particularly with the summer Physics. Early discussions with GC would probably be helpful come senior year when the GC has to write the rec. GPA and class ranking is important, but so is demonstrating the “passion thing,” which the Latin/Hebrew combination seem to indicate.</p>

5

<p>I’m leaning towards 3. The Hebrew teacher can always be asked to write a letter of recommendation that makes it clear she was doing good work in the class.</p>

6

<p>I don’t see any reason to include the Hebrew in her high school transcript.</p>

<p>Our son had a study hall every year and is now at a top five school. As you say, he had ECs and sports. He did not have significant outside study commitments.</p>

<p>Her transcript imo is fine as it is, very demanding. </p>

<p>In applying to colleges, she will be able to tell about her outside study of Hebrew. Whether or not Hebrew is on her high school transcript, colleges can learn that she attends an accredited Hebrew program, that she seriously studies, is fluent in, and strongly committed to, Hebrew. She will not need to rely on the GC to convey this information. She can even get a recommendation, if she chooses, from the Hebrew school.</p>

<p>Option 2 reduces her GPA substantially and puts her high school rank and transcript, and therefore her exposure to emotional stress, at the mercy of the Hebrew school. It reduces her GPA even if she gets an A in Hebrew. And what if she gets a C there? Given what you said about the grading and competition there, it could happen. Option 2 is the least preferred option imo.</p>

<p>Since Hebrew occurs outside of regular school, my choice would be to avoid entangling it with the regular school grading and administrative process.</p>

7

<p>Yeah, for what it’s worth, I vote 1, too. Her eventual college applications will certainly show the outside work in Hebrew, so there’s no issue about it being missing, and her grade in it won’t matter. </p>

<p>The one thing I would do, though, is try to talk to the GC. The critical issue, application-wise, is whether the GCs will view her official course selection as “most challenging”. If it makes a difference to them whether the Hebrew appears on her transcript, I would think about #3.</p>

8

<p>I suggest keeping the Hebrew program completely separate from the high school transcript. This way, your daughter has a choice: she can submit a separate transcript from the Hebrew program if she wants to, or she can simply discuss her participation in the program on her college applications, without submitting a transcript.</p>

<p>I think it would also be a good idea to talk to the guidance counselor and find out EXACTLY what is required to get the “most rigorous” designation on the counselor report that is sent to colleges. That way, she will know whether or not to be concerned about having 6 courses instead of 7.</p>

9

<p>Thanks for all of the opinions. They’ve all been really helpful. It would sure be useful if the GC and the school made it explicitly clear what was required for getting that “most rigorous” box checked. </p>

<p>I don’t think D will go for option 2. She won’t enjoy the Hebrew with that kind of stress. She’s already a little nervous about the workload from AP Euro. </p>

<p>I’ve spoken to the GC once before about whether to send her the Summer AP Physics transcript and she seemed very nice. She said that she’ll put it in “her file” but it won’t count toward her GPA. </p>

<p>On the other hand, I’m afraid that simply asking for her opinion about the Hebrew brings the risk that she has a strong opinion preferring option 2, and then we have the problematic choice of going against her wishes or living with the consequences. </p>

<p>I’m thinking it may be best to do option 1 and then at the end of Junior year have the Hebrew high school send a transcript to her GC for “her file” just so the GC knows she did it. At that point she may be able to say “I wish you had registered for Independent study”, but it would be too late. The actual work done would be the same in either case. I would think that it would be difficult for her to hold this against her at application time. Does this make sense?</p>

10

<p>I would vote for keeping the outside classes separate from the HS transcript. Colleges are going to ask to see transcripts from her Hebrew class anyway, and if she’s taking the physics at a local college, they’ll ask for that, too. </p>

<p>I would not assume that the GC would be able to evaluate the difficulty of a course outside her purview. Your D’s courses sound like they’ll hit the “most challenging” mark in any event. I would copy the GC “for her file” when it comes time to recommendations and write up a blurb she may choose to use, should she want to address the outside course commitments. </p>

<p>Your D can also address this in the Q that shows up on a lot of college apps asking “does your transcript reflect your abilities.” College also ask what you’ve done over the summer, and your D can mention the physics course there, and under “AP Courses taken,” she can include “AP Physics (summer 2007 course and self-study”). </p>

<p>Another wise person on this board whose student took classes outside of HS included a copy of the course description for each class in that student’s application materials.</p>

<p>Congrats to your D – she sounds extremely self-motivated and knows what she wants!</p>

11

<p>Thank you, but she does all the work and deserves all the credit.</p>