Computer skills for a 12 year old – suggestions, please!

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’ve always tried keeping my son away from electronic devices or watching TV. This works to some extent – he has many ECs, plays several sports and is usually pretty busy. However, many of his friends have various play stations and 1.5 years ago I gave up and bought him an X-box as a birthday gift. He also has a Game boy for long road trips. Currently his playtime is limited and he maintains his multiple ECs. However, as he grows older, I’d like to re-direct his interests from electronic games to developing computer skills in an entertaining and learning environment. He has limited computer literacy gained mostly through computer classes in school. He owns a computer used mainly for homework: many of his assignments require extensive internet searches, he also regularly uses MS Word for his science and language reports, essays or other assignments, as well as for spelling and thesaurus. He’s also started using email. However, his computer skills are very random and superficial.</p>

<p>I’d like him to master some primitive programming skills and apply them to some fun activity such as web site design, animation etc. He is very enthusiastic about this and I hope this will distract him from TV and X-box. Can anyone suggest what would be the best way to achieve this? Are there any online courses appropriate for his age? Child-friendly software? Books? Websites? Other options? I’d be glad to help, but ideally I’d like him to be able to navigate instructions and build skills independently. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Now that my D is admitted to college, I can finally redirect my efforts and spin into round two – I’ve already told my son to beware :D</p>

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<p>Visual Basic.
You can start by purchasing someting that I believe is called Visual Basic for Kids. He will learn how to write simple programs and expand from there.</p>

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<p>Flash animation. Also IdTech and Cybercamps run pretty good summer camps.</p>

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<p>My son started with Visual Basic. The new adult version is quite different and might not be so ammenable for beginning programmers. If he’s more interested in website design, hitting the computer section of your local bookstore and picking out the most appealing looking guidebooks would probably be fine. The Dummy books are usually pretty good. It might be too babyish, but MIT has some downloadable software called Scratch. You can download it here: <a href=“http://scratch.mit.edu/[/url]”>http://scratch.mit.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Find a FIRST robotics team. It combines programming with mechanical engineering and competition. It’s a great program. (<a href=“http://www.usfirst.org%5B/url%5D”>www.usfirst.org</a>) </p>

<p>If I knew where you were, I might be able to find you a contact in your area.</p>

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<p>I have a different answer than the above. I think the most important “computer skill” is knowing how to use one appropriately, not to learn how to program.</p>

<p>I would say that the most important computer skill for him to learn is to increase his touch typing speed. My two kids in MS and HS have already realized how their typing is an advantage over their classmates. </p>

<p>Not knowing if he is in 7th or 8th grade, I would next say that mastering the use of the MS office apps which he already uses will help him in preparing papers and including and analysing data. Also basic how to do research on the internet. Without knowing how far away he is from HS and how much of these skills will be expected there is tougher to know of useful this is at this time, but it will be useful eventually.</p>

<p>I am a computer engineer and the number of people I deal with in my community who don’t have basic computer literacy really stand out. I would even say spend more time exchanging email with him so he learns when to include previous messages, when do to reply to all, etc that kind of basic stuff which so many people don’t grasp.</p>

<p>I think these skills are more important at this point to programming, however the programming examples given would be fun ECs since he is interested in these.</p>

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<p>I work in an engineering related field and my son was much the same. He attended the cybercamps two years in a row. I would recommend the robotics program over the cypercamp route. </p>

<p>At one time, I felt the same way you do about the programming aspect. As adults, we look at kids with computers and gaming and think “hmm…how can it be put to good use?” </p>

<p>But…the kids are not looking to put it to good use, they are looking to tune out and have fun. Some kids do go the programming route but I know mine did not. The cybercamp was more social than learning. </p>

<p>I have the impression from other parents that the robotics program is more learning…</p>

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<p>If he seems to be interested in learning how to design a website, he could try to use some basic html tutorials (I’ve used htmlgoodies.com before). Perhaps he could make a website for one of the ECs that he is involved in. I started to learn html around that age, and the basic programming experience was good for me (I’m now a college senior in engineering - I’ve done lots of programming since then).</p>

<p>Typing programs (like Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing) are a good way to increase typing speed. More often now, these also include games that make them more palatable for teens. Although if he talks with his friends on instant messaging programs, his typing will get dramatically better from that too :-).</p>

<p>The FIRST robotics program mentioned above is a great program for high school students. The same organization runs a competition for middle school students using a Lego Mindstorms kit. The organization designs a new game every schoolyear, and the students design, build, and program a robot to play it. The teams compete against each other in competitions. I’m not sure how much the Lego League teams do with animation, but the high school teams do make an animation.</p>

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<p>I have to admit I assumed her kid already knew her way around the typical office programs - word processor, spread sheet, power point… My kids certainly did by 12. My older son taught himself programming. (A one or two week course at cybercamp where he first learned Java was quite useful - he was probably 11 or 12 at the time. It ran 8am to 8pm and he loved it.) My younger son likes to design space ships and soldiers that he can insert into various online games. He uses various 3d modeling programs. Milkshape is or was one of them. My kids both learned to type fast from online games and message boards.</p>

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<p>This is why I love this forum – thanks so much everyone for your input, this is extremely useful!</p>

<p>I guess I was not entirely clear in my message and indeed it occurred to me that the subject line might not be accurate. There are two separate aspects here: the first one is educational / practical, and I most definitely agree that it’s extremely important to develop basic computer skills such as typing or internet research. We are working on it, though probably not as much as we should, but I am afraid that he may not get excited or motivated enough to learn it on his own.</p>

<p>The second one is to find the best way to spend leisure time. I’d be thrilled if he would prefer to learn typing or using MS Office, but in reality I am afraid he would consider it just another assignment. That’s why I want to find some activity that would be relaxing, enjoyable and entertaining, yet creative, developmental and beneficial in the long term. Of course he may not enjoy learning computer programming per se, but he may like applying it to web site design. Just as another example, I also considered for him learning digital photography. The hope is that after trying several options he’ll find the one he’ll enjoy and I’ll most definitely consider all of the helpful suggestions above.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, S is different from his older sister – I do not know whether this is a “boy syndrome” or a “younger child syndrome”, but there is definitely a pattern amongst my friends, where boys seem to have issues with putting a lot of effort into the process, although they definitely enjoy the end result. (I think I’ve already seeing a thread about boys vs. girls somewhere on the CC). So the trick is to find something he would like more then playing games, which definitely would be his first choice now. On the other hand, I cannot blame him – he does not have a lot of time to relax and he is not familiar with many other exciting options, which I am trying to show him now. </p>

<p>WashDad
I live in NY and would appreciate some contacts. Engineering and robotics might be great choices, which I did not even consider – he might really enjoy it. When he was younger, he spent hours and hours with mini legos and such - he still likes them. Of course, the challenge would be to drive him to the events, this is on top of his 4-5 weekly trips to sport practices, games and music lessons, so I hoped to find something he could do from home…</p>

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<p>I second the FIRST Robotics suggestions, with some reservations. Oftentimes (I know this happened to me) the more established teams are sort of overwhelming in terms of amount of technical knowledge they already have, the size of the operation (and yes, it really is an “operation”), etc. Robotics teams can be amazing experiences, or they can be sort of exclusive–the “real work” is sometimes left to those who already know how to do it, because the program is structured as a 6 week competition season (which is sort of strange–it’s supposed to mimic the “real world,” but when do you have less than six weeks for full design, planning, building, programming, testing and marketing of a product in a real engineering firm? A lot of the robots get shipped out half built and barely functional)</p>

<p>VEX Robotics is another option, also handled by FIRST. It’s a much smaller scale, so it can be more fun and less intimidating–you’re not forced to specialize, you can try your hand at designing, building, and programming. It can also be done outside of a shop/lab and at fairly low cost. It could be done at home. Note- Radio Shack sold these kits for a while, but I think something happened–you might have to hunt around a bit.</p>

<p>Re: computers</p>

<p>Someone mentioned Logo, I think, or one of MIT’s related projects. netlogo is a really neat programming environment to start out with–it basically emphasizes the exploratory/problem-solving nature of CS over minutiae of syntax, and it doesn’t have a lot of overhead.</p>

<p>Python is also a neat language in that respect–it doesn’t have the visuals, but it is both extremely simple and, when/if you get into it, very powerful and a “real” language. Example: when you open up the Python IDE, you can use it immediately as a calculator–just type in the expression you want evaluated and hit return. It’s really useful for Web scripting, very simple/elegant, and can be used to get into “deeper” CS/object-oriented programming/algorithms ideas. It’s also a really useful tool for playing around with math ideas/problems (can you tell I’m somewhat biased?)</p>

<p>Computers are here to stay. The most important skills for general use are of course the old standbys of typing and word processing, but a little programming can help, even if it doesn’t go to far. If nothing else, it’s fun, or can be (when you’re not searching for a misplaced semicolon for an hour, ha). If your son goes into anything remotely tech or business related, programming skills are a plus.</p>

<p>It’s funny, a lot of what’s been said here parallels my personal experience with how interests progress:</p>

<p>games (7-11 or so) –> programming games –> physics engines behind games –> animation, rendering, etc. –> programming the rendering engines –> pure CS and robotics –> math (which I now want to study in college)</p>

<p>Bah, apologies for my windbag-ness.</p>

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<p>Just don’t let computers absorb him. Computers can do that. I am now addicted.</p>

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<p>In our area, kids learn typing with Mavis Beacon at school, in about 4th, 5th grade. I don’t think I could <em>make</em> them learn to type on their own!</p>

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<p>My d learned typing from Spongebob. hahaha Really, it was a Spongebob typing program and she is the best typist in school right now (6th grade). She never looks at the keyboard at all.</p>

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<p>Unix? (it’s like Latin) :)</p>

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<p>A user-friendly linux distro (yes they exist) might be interesting, assuming someone with a fair bit of computer experience could help him.</p>

<p>Python is also fun (and free!)</p>

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<p>For my boys playing computer games made them excellent touch typists. I didn’t even realize that my son had memorized the keyboard by the time he started 6th grade until I saw him doing a report and not looking down. At our last family reunion we discovered that the boy cousins that play computer games all typed over 120 wpm. The down side is that they all like to play computer games and play computer games and …</p>

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<p>My boys learned so much from computer games. I wouldn’t dismiss them a priori. The Age of Empires and Sim City series in particular are fantastic learning experiences.</p>

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<p>

Rather than jumping into programming (which would be fine if he was very interested in it but if not, he probably wouldn’t stick with it for long), how about having him use Microsoft Frontpage or Adobe Dreamweaver or other web site design application to develop a web site or two? He can develop one for himself, the family, or even a charity. If he has a digital camera he can use it to put images into the web site. He should be able to use these applications fairly quickly on his own as long as he’s interested. If he really enjoys it and gets into it he can then start to expand on his capabilities by learning some Javascript to use with it and then delve further if he wants.</p>

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<p>UCSD_dad</p>

<p>I think you are absolutely right and it does sound much more logical to progress from web design to programming rather then an opposite. Your suggestion seems to combine some of his favorite choices and he can actually manage to do learn this - thank you for a great advice. I am not very tech savvy and have to learn about so many things that are taken for granted by school kids. Sometimes it seems that they were born with ability to type, program or design web sites, whereas for me it’s a challenge to use an ipod or find correct command in cell phone menu. The irony is that I do use lots of extremely advanced and sophisticated equipment and software at work, but I have to learn using each one of them. Sigh.</p>