I’m a rising 11th grade student focused on STEM. I have met the prerequisites for the two following programs, so this isn’t a theoretical question. I’ve been accepted to both, and I already hold a job.
The first pathway I have is shown below. It is at my state flagship university and in close enough proximity that I could keep my job. I am currently taking classes at the location for the summer.
11th 1st Semester
11th 2nd Semester
Programming Paradigms
Software Engineering
Electric Circuits I + Lab
System and Signal Analysis
Calculus III
Digital Design
Linear Algebra
Electric Circuits II + Lab
Elementary Differential Equations
Composition II
12th 1st Semester
12th 2nd Semester
Computer Organization
Embedded Systems
Computer Networks
Control Systems
Electronics 1 + Lab
Electronics II + Lab
Artificial Intelligence
Applied Electromagnetics
SENIOR OR GRAD LEVEL ELECTIVE
SENIOR OR GRAD LEVEL ELECTIVE
The second pathway is at my state’s early college program. The classes marked with a # do not count for credit.
11th 1st Semester
11th 2nd Semester
Advanced Topics in CS #
Computer Programming III
Electric Circuits 1 + Lab
Graphics Programming #
Calculus III
Discrete Mathematics
Elementary Differential Equations
Electric Circuits II + Lab
Composition I
Composition II
12th 1st Semester
12th 2nd Semester
Game Programming #
Literature Class
College Chemistry II
Organic Chemistry #
Web Programming
Speech
Linear Algebra #
Blank Slot. No interesting subjects to fill.
US History
Art Class
I am in favor of the first option, while my parents are in favor of the second. My parents favor the second largely because of the student life experience. I favor the first because it allows me to keep my job and progress faster and deeper in my chosen field, but I’m also attached to it because it has been my goal for about 3 years.
I am aware that both options are good opportunities.
The classes for both are placeholders, since the exact subjects/courses could change with my interests. This would not significantly alter the second pathway, since it is filled with the majority of the school’s STEM classes already. The first is less locked in.
Both options meet the state laws and requirements based on the way I’m approaching them. The first option is covered about seventy percent by the state. The remaining thirty percent would take about twenty percent of my post-tax income from my current employment. There is no financial burden to my parents and no significant burden to myself.
Based on this information, tell me the advantages and disadvantages of each pathway along with how I could mitigate the disadvantages for each pathway. This will help me make a more informed decision on which option to take and how to go about the option I choose.
NOTE: I wasn’t sure where to post this, but I chose the Parents Forum since I wanted legitimate advice. Let me know if it is the wrong spot.
And, if so, do you know outcomes from other students who have participated in these programs? My immediate reaction is that they - and especially the first - may knock you out of contention for many four year universities, especially selective ones, as you seem to be missing depth in a few core courses (such as history/social science and foreign language). But perhaps you have seen previous successful outcomes among students?
Or perhaps this is a pathway into the state school and this essentially gives you a jumpstart so that you can matriculate after 12th grade and then finish your degree in 2 years? If so, how does the course of study align with any required core curriculum required to graduate? Same concern: where are the humanities/social sciences?
I’m going to get a bachelor’s degree, ideally in one of the subjects I concentrate in. I believe that with the credits from either pathway a degree would not take a full for years to obtain. After that, I want to go for a graduate degree.
I’ll decide on my further steps once I get finished with a degree.
In my past two years of high school, I’ve completed all the humanities requirements besides fine arts and US History. I have completed language courses, other history classes, and writing. The only humanities classes I’d be focused on for either pathway would be Composition I and II. Learning how to properly write is important for any field.
I know that for students coming out of the second program are usually extremely successful and get into top schools (MIT, Caltech, Harvard, etc). However, there is only one other person in the state taking a comparable courseload in the Engineering College in high school. Unlike with the academic comparison, I’m not quite sure what the outcome will be with college admissions.
What I have seen with the second pathway admissions suggests that colleges are willing to overlook non-stellar (I’m still “good” of course) performance in a non-critical area if a student has exceptional performance in another.
In short, I’d be relying on the hope that US History and Drawing wouldn’t be considered dealbreakers to the engineering schools I’m applying to.
This is my concern as well. Many 4 year universities recommend or even require that students take 4 years of the core subjects(English, math, science, humanities/history, foreign language). Some schools like the UCs require a year of visual or performing arts. Unless you know that these two options will directly lead to an admission to your state university system and that’s where you want to go, I would not choose either. Just my opinion, of course.
I see. In that case, I’d probably just take the two classes over the summer (this or 11th grade summer) if my first choices required it.
I’m already looking at knocking out the US History this summer.
Considering I have the other core humanities (two years foreign language, the four years of English, the two years of history, civics, economics), that would fix the problem?
Generally, highly selective colleges will want to see at least 3 and preferably 4 years of all core subjects, so two years of foreign language and two years of history/civics could potentially disadvantage you. If you can take at least US history over summer, I would encourage you to do that.
In that case, I’ll assume that I cut out 4 classes for humanities. 2 more years of foreign language, a year more of history, and a year of drawing. Since these classes are yearlong, they would be equivalent to 8 university semester classes.
Applying this to my first pathway cuts out every senior and graduate level STEM course, leaving me with a few junior level classes. While having both the high-level STEM courses and high-level humanities courses would be ideal, I can’t do both.
If I did cut out the STEM classes to have more than baseline humanities, would I really be favored for admission to an engineering school over somebody who had done the opposite? And if that was the case, is that really the engineering school that I should go to?
Keep in mind that one college semester course equals one year long high school course. In others words, one semester of college-level history would be the same a full year of high school history.
You should begin looking at the admissions pages of the colleges you are potentially interested in. The thing is in order to be accepted to an engineering college, your application must first meet all admissions requirements for the university in which it is housed. If a university requires a minimum of 3 years of foreign language and you only have two, you will not be admitted which means you will not be considered for their engineering college, either. The requirements vary among universities of course, so before you make a final decision about the remainder of your high school coursework, you should begin reviewing minimum requirements as well as recommended coursework (which is often necessary to be a competitive applicant). If you fall below the recommended courses in one area, maybe even two areas, that may not be a deal breaker. But you should strive to hit as many marks as you can for your best chances. And, of course, you must meet all minimum requirements to be considered.
The MIT HASS disciplines — the humanities, arts, and social sciences — are central to the Institute’s mission to provide all graduates with the knowledge, skills, and perspectives to make lasting contributions to the nation and the world. Students may use their HASS subjects to broaden their perspectives, complement science and engineering coursework, experience new fields, or to pursue lifelong interests.
A Caltech education requires not just the depth of an option, but also considerable breadth in basic science, humanities, and social science. Caltech’s core curriculum prepares students for the interdisciplinary nature of contemporary research in science and technology. This encourages a culture of problem solving, collaboration, and communication while providing valuable experience in all fields of science. Significant study in the humanities and social sciences is an important component of Caltech’s core curriculum, giving alumni the ability to navigate the societal, political, and economic factors that influence, and are influenced by, their work.
I also wonder if schools like MIT and Caltech might prefer to teach you the core elements of their engineering curriculum themselves, rather than having you come in from high school having already studied a large chunk of the curriculum at your state university.
Of course, MIT and Caltech aren’t the only schools where you can study engineering (there are lots of great schools out there); but I think you can infer from their curricula that highly selective schools do value the humanities, even for STEM-focused students.
With either of these pathways, instead of going to a top engineering school, go to your in-state flagship or other public university that will accept college credit and graduate in 2 years. 2 years at state school + 2 years of work experience > 4 years at a big name school.
Most private schools will not accept your college credit.
Yes, I’ve seen that. The HASS requirements are a major part at the curriculum at MIT and you are unable to exempt yourself from those requirements with previous coursework. Similarly, Caltech says "Significant study in the humanities and social sciences is an important component of Caltech’s core curriculum.
It’s my understanding that these universities are talking about their own education in those quotes, not the requirements to receive that education in the first place.
In that case, I wonder if schools like MIT and Caltech prioritize greater success in the humanities or the sciences when it comes to admissions.
I agree that most private schools won’t accept it. At best, I’d get 1-1.5 years off. I’m on the border about graduating early and getting work experience vs the 4 years for a big-name school because I want to get a graduate degree. Would I be at a disadvantage if I graduated early (but saved myself lots of money) trying to get into grad school?
EDIT: To clarify, I am highly interested in saving money in the long run. I just don’t know if a big name private school is better to do that than getting of school earlier.
If they expect you to excel in humanities courses as a student there, wouldn’t they want to see a track record of success in base courses before deciding to admit you? Seems like they’d be taking a huge risk on a student with a limited history of success in the kinds of courses they would be expected to take as an undergrad.
They will want to admit students who are well prepared to succeed in all aspects of their curriculum. I expect this would mean that they would prefer students who have done more than just the bare minimum in the humanities and social sciences.
I agree with @ucla_cs_god that if you prefer the first option where you substitute a large part of the college curriculum in place of a standard 11th and 12th grade, you might then consider going to a state university that would accept this credit, graduate in 2 years, and go straight to the workforce. That’s a very reasonable option as well! But I think it’s probably a different path from targeting selective private schools (or top tier publics).
I think there might be a misunderstanding, so what level of performance am I expected to have in the social sciences?
Would my two years of foreign language, 3 years of history/civics/economics, 4 years of writing, and 1/2 year of fine arts at around a 3.75 GPA average be suitable?