Consequences-terrible college grades

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Looking for suggestions from parents who may have been through this…</p>

<p>S is a 1st semester sophomore whose grades just came in.<br>
1.75 gpa for the term, including 1 F and 1 D. Background: his average for the last 2 semesters (included a summer session) was around a 3.0 and he had 3.9 at his 1st semester “Katrina” school. His need-based merit scholarship is close to being jeopardized (the 1st semester gpa from the Katrina school doesn’t factor in). He’s not very mature in general (young for his class too), doesn’t “get it” in terms of organizational skills. Class schedule wasn’t a “killer” schedule–ie no engineering, organic chem, etc. </p>

<p>Best we can tell, the problem was not enough dedicated work, not very effective studying, not being mindful of drop/add withdrawal dates, getting behind and being unable to catch up, not getting tutoring, not meeting with professors, advisors, etc. He is somewhat a shy guy which doesn’t help. Skipping classes happened but he insists not in the two he did worst in. He’s pretty clueless about the college “system” like managing gpa well–ie choosing classes based on not getting up early vs the professor teaching it, etc. Also has a tendency to think he’s doing better in something than reality would suggest. Most his classes this term gave him very limited feedback in terms of test grades etc. </p>

<p>Drugs/depression not a factor. Although he’s not a huge partier, he does drink some. He’s not in a fraternity. Has had the same girlfriend (a very good student at same school) all year in a healthy, stable relationship.
He’s not a great communicator as a rule, probably a contributing factor, but he’s not the type of kid that lies or manipulates the truth. I’m also not feeling the “remorse” much from him, which bothers me too. </p>

<p>The dilemma: how much to micromanage his “last chance” semester?
Insist on him quitting his 8 hour a week job which he loves and says doesn’t impact the grades? Create an arbitrary gpa cut-off goal? Force him to write up a strategic plan for next semester? Insist on him changing his dorm environment (in a suite with friends, except actual roommate who he doesn’t much care for)? Asking for a periodic progress report (even if you got one, how do you know it’s “real”?) Telling him to prepare at least one transfer application as a contingency? </p>

<p>If he loses the scholarship, the school allows 2 semesters academic probation. However, I don’t feel we should pay our share (at considerable sacrifice to us) for an expensive school for two terms of academic probation if he’s not doing HIS share. If he doesn’t turn it around spring '07, our thinking is he needs to leave. And we can’t afford to send him there without the scholarship.</p>

<p>H & I have only had the initial discussion indicating he could have another semester. We differ somewhat in the approach to take but we do want a united front. However, I’m feeling the need for more of a structured commitment/contract with S on this and am looking for some additional insights from voices of experience out there. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I would not try the micromanaging. Nor do you need to resort to threats. Just make it clear that he needs to bring up his grades because if the scholarships are lost, you will not pay the additional costs.</p>

<p>Tough love may be difficult, but I believe it is the only approach with a chance of success.</p>

3

<p>I agree with edad. Kids can do the darndest things: they need to feel and take responsibility. That is partially what this college experience is all about. My son knows, I don’t care what grades he gets. I don’t ask. It is his life not mine. He needs to learn to manage work, play and school! If not now then when? This is it. This is the trial. The sooner they learn they are totally responsible for their actions, the better. It’s not Mom or Dad or whoever, it’s them. It is not that I don’t care about him. I love him, more than anything else really. It’s not that I don’t sweat it. I do. But as he must learn, so must I. My son has a huge scholarship and he is keeping within the limits or so he says. And you know what, good for him! I hope so!!!</p>

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<p>Can the girlfriend be of any help in trying to get him on the right path? After all, apparently she has her act together and is also on the scene. If he has to leave his college because of his grades, she will be affected as well.</p>

<p>Does he have time management, organizational or self-discipline issues? If so, can he get help for them?</p>

<p>Is something in his life (poker or computer games, etc.) draining his time?</p>

<p>IMO he needs to realize that if he loses his scholarship because of his grades, you will not pick up the difference. Perhaps he could use a semester off working to get re-motivated rather than discouraged. </p>

<p>I’d let him know that you will support him in dealing with this situation proactively and responsibly, but stress that the natural consequences of his actions will be his. </p>

<p>Please let us know what works out.</p>

5

<p>Similar situation happened to a close friend’s son. Like your son, capability was not the issue and they were concerned that he showed little “remorse”. They pulled him from first college, let him enroll in one in hometown–thinking that they could micromanage him there. That didn’t work and he didn’t get act together. At present he is out of school and working at a factory painting bathrooms, work rooms, etc and really hating it—seeing the value of an education. The deal they have now is that they will match him dollar for dollar when he goes back to school. He is restarting in Jan and I firmly believe will be a changed guy.</p>

<p>In short, I agree with the above posters—don’t micromanage and let the natural consequences rule (just make sure he is informed of what they will be). Good luck, I wish him the very best.</p>

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<p>A very good friend is at wit’s end about this right now. Very social D heads off to U of Oklahoma and does very well year one. By year two is dissatisfied with her school and “that’s why my grades are in the tank”. Wants to transfer to UNT. Dad reluctantly agrees (but is mortified by the 1.2 soph year). Sets her down , explains how the cow ate the cabbage. Tells her that this is the end of the road. That if she doesn’t apply herself this semester the gravy train is done. </p>

<p>Well, last week she gets home with a 1.5 and a trunk full of excuses. No remorse just excuses and statements that so and so and such and such’s parents don’t care how their daughters are doing and keep paying. (All of these kids come from pretty big money. Never worked a minute in their lives. All are model pretty and , at times , wild as march hares. None are in danger of being scholars. )</p>

<p>Bye-bye brand new $30K car. Bye-bye tuition, room and board and fees and spending money and insurance on the car. The kid has a small inheritance to go through which will last maybe a semester and a half. The kid acts as if it’s no big deal. “It’s my life.” Well, yeah. NOW it will be. </p>

<p>I was asked what I thought and I said that to continue to pay would make them facilitators of her irresponsible lifestyle. </p>

<p>Comes a time…</p>

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<p>If you are making <em>any</em> financial contribution to the school, I would make that contingent upon him giving you the right to access his grades. Starting now.</p>

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<p>I went through the exact same thing with S, who also was young for his age (had skipped), and had organizational problems, but due to high test scores, a rigorous curriculum (his choice) and an extraordinary academically-related EC went to an out of state public on virtually a full scholarship.</p>

<p>The worst thing that we did was allowing him to stay in school for another semester after his first semester grades were an average that was below a 1.0. </p>

<p>What we did was with S’s approval, my husband flew up to the school and met with S and his advisor, who went way out of her way to schedule S for a workshop to help him get organized. They also allowed S to keep his excellent merit scholarship for another semester. </p>

<p>Even with all of this, S totally bombed second semester, decided not to return to school, got a nice paid internship far from our state, and after that was over, got a temp job with good pay. When that ran out, however, he continued to live far away and just accepted odd jobs while living with an adult relative who is a mature woman with a professional job, but who didn’t have kids of her own, so thought she was doing S a favor by not charging him rent.</p>

<p>We later learned by accidentally accessing his blog that S had begun drinking and partying very heavily in college, something that was a big surprise to us because S – by his own choice – had not socialized at all while in h.s. because he hated our city and was focused on leaving. No matter what you think about your S’s partying, you probably are underestimating what’s going on. From what I can figure out, my S enjoyed hanging with a much older crowd, and started drinking heavily to fit in. </p>

<p>My advice is to pull your financial support. That probably means that your S will have to drop out, but that’s fine because his grades indicate he’s too immature for college right now. If he decides to return home, have him pay a reasonable rent (My S ended up living with an relative who – against our advice – didn’t charge rent, and living that comfy lifestyle allowed S to not bother getting a job, the first time in his life he had ever been that irresponsible) that he obtains from a job. Your S is not ready for college yet, so it would be better if he works a job – any legitimate job – instead of wasting your money on college.</p>

<p>Tell him that you will only pay for college again if he goes to a college (which probably will have to be a community college) --on his own dime – for a semester and gets at least a 3.0 average.</p>

<p>This sounds like tough love, and it is – tough love that you would utilize based on my painful experience with my older S, who is still drifting. If you wish to PM me, feel free. I know you’re in a painful situation, and I wish you the best.</p>

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<p>I have friends in the same boat with their kids. </p>

<p>Both families told their sophomore kid - this is the LAST semester. It’s not camp…blah blah. (Both kids partying-hearty and general goofing off.)</p>

<p>I don’t know how their grades have ended up, but my guess is that one family will cave, the other one won’t. </p>

<p>I guess kids need to understand - you can do this the EASY way (have mom and dad pay for nice school while you put in the effort) or you can do it the HARD way (get a job, work while going to school). </p>

<p>And then there are kids (like my youngest sister - ha) who simply will not put in the effort until they are paying for it themselves.</p>

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<p>OP - you indicate he had a fairly good GPA prior to this semester - sooooooo - he IS very capable of the work - best approach - hold him responsible for his school work/etc - tell him to get his butt in gear - make good choices/etc… and if he flunks out - he has to live with it - he is quite old enough to understaqnd exactly where he stands with you and the school - so make it VERY clear to him - ooooo and the transfer thing!!! - that won’t help at all cuz the transfer school will be looking at the failing grades he is presenting now.</p>

<p>OP your second paragraph says ALOT!!! - lots of excuses there - He really does need to take responsibility for his college future - not give excuses.</p>

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<p>I’m not too sure if you should right away and immediately say he isn’t lying about anything.</p>

<p>Your S seems a bit like my fiance (or at least from the short descrip you gave on here). My fiance did well his first semester of school, worse his second, and much worse his third. By the end of his third semester, I found out he was lying to his parents about his grades and about his class attendance (or rather lack there-of). He showed little/no remorse for his grades and was beginning to be in a serious state of depression. We were dating at the time and I was scoring nearly straight A’s. </p>

<p>Does your son have any direction with what he wants to do with his life?</p>

<p>My fiance has had a hard time going to school without having an idea what he wants to do with his life. If you don’t know what you are going to school for, it can really give some guys a feeling that it doesn’t really matter yet.</p>

<p>I tried my darn hardest to get him to go to classes and figure out what he is passionate about. Trust me, it doesn’t work. It takes most people time and a little bit of failure to figure out why they are in the mess they are and what it takes to get out of it.</p>

<p>My fiance has now been working full-time for a couple of years and is counting the days he can go back to school again to finally finish up his bachelors once and for all (he’s now thinking about giving econ a try)!</p>

<p>Let him know you are concerned, and let him know the consequences for his actions. Beyond that, all you can do is support him no matter his decisions. For the next semester though, I’d look into the school’s tutoring center to see if he can develop some organizational skills. </p>

<p>Also, if the school has some TA’s see if he can develop a friendship of sorts with one of them. I love it when my students come to me for advice on how to get through college and the what I find the best way to study for exams. TA’s are often-times an underutilized resource in trudging your way through college. We are not that much older than the undergraduates and have been in their place not too far back.</p>

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<p>How does he propose to address the problem?</p>

<p>I would favor getting an agreement on what is to be done. The agreement being something that both you and he can live with. If he can’t come up with a plan that you can live with, then I’d be skeptical about sending him back to school next semester.</p>

13

<p>Ahhhh…another tippy boat. Just in time for the holidays! Isn’t he a darling?</p>

<p>Every tippy boat has it’s keel, curiouser. There is a 90% chance that your S will get his keel sorted–but there is a 10% chance the boat will tip over next semester–spilling your son and his plans into the big blue pond of disaster.</p>

<p>From the land of boys who think they can pull everything out of the hat in the eleventh hour and the land of boys who must run into concrete walls in order to prove to themselves that concrete walls do indeed exist, I have the following advice:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Make him quit his $10 per hour job. Obviously he cannot multi-task. </p></li>
<li><p>Sit him down in front of a GPA calculator --most school websites have one. Let him see what a hellish GPA road he has built for himself. He now needs to get a 3.3 + for every semester. Let him peruse the study abroad programs–all of which require a 3.0 or above. Let him peruse some graduate school requirements.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t hide the fact that he bombed out. Tell the aunties and his friend’s parents. Let him feel the shame of the concrete wall he wanted to see up close. Many a boy has been inspired to succeed by the sting of shame. </p></li>
<li><p>It’s your call if you want him to continue at the school. That depends on the depth of your pockets and his GPA. Your call. What is not your call–even though you may really wish you had control of it–is his choice of friends and lifestyle. If you have a child who doesn’t make stellar friend and lifestyle choices, you have to own up to the culpability in your child and learn to accept it.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck curiouser. Hoepfully you’ll laugh about this one day–when he’s a Fortune 500 or something.</p>

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<p>He clearly has some problem since this is quite a change for him. Something’s going on beyond organizational problems. He needs to come to terms with it.</p>

<p>If it were me, I wouldn’t enable the behavior to continue. If he’s not going to put in a reasonable effort, I wouldn’t fund it. I’d let him know he’s on the hook for paying for this sub-par semester as well as any other semester that’s sub-par. Refusing to pay for a sub-standard effort is not ‘micro-managing’ - it’s being prudent with your investments. He needs to seriously consider whether he should be in college right now or not. If he decides on college (let’s hope so), he needs to take it seriously. Hopefully this was just a wakeup call for him.</p>

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<p>If they flunk out and you tell them to get a job, pay rent etc and they don’t then the next step would seem to be that they move out and fend for thems elves, but where do they go with no money/skills/rich aunties with no kids?</p>

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<p>Yep. My inclination would be to just pull the plug now, too. There’s no point in wasting college on somebody who isn’t interested. It’s just amazing how much more internally motivated a kid can be after working some grunt job for a year. Or maybe volunteering in Africa or whatever.</p>

<p>Honestly, a 1.5 GPA can only occur if there are serious issues. Strong odds suggest that it is probably partying 24/7.</p>

<p>If it were my kid, I would be strongly considering an immediate voluntary leave of absence rather than wasting another semester’s tuiton and getting the boot. At the very least, that would be the “working hypothesis” I’d be discussing with my kid. If he doesn’t like that hypothesis, then let him sell you on something different.</p>

<p>I have no use for kids ****ing away $40,000 a year in college expenses (regardless of who’s paying) without a care in the world. If they want to party, get a job and party on their own dime.</p>

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<p>Parents buying kids brand new $30k cars is probably a contributing factor. Back home, I think they call it “spoiled rotten”.</p>