Conservatories that meet 100% of financial need?

flutetalk · August 21, 2009, 7:01pm

Looking for suggestions of the quickest way to figure out which, if any, of the following schools meet 100% of “financial need” (based on EFC)-- leaving no gap between ability to pay and amount the school covers in merit or need based scholarships, plus federally subsidized student loans and work study. I know Oberlin Conservatory has the endowment to have this generous policy (and I assume Curtis is tops in this regard) this but am helping a friend with limited finances look at the following other schools:
Northwestern
Manhattan School of Music
Temple University
Julliard
CIM
University of Maryland
University of Oregon (in state student)

Also if there are comments on other general music scholarships that are not based at a particular school I would love to hear them (though I realize that the schools “need based” scholarship would be reduced by the amount of outside scholarships probably).

Thanks in advance for any information or helpful links.
Flutetalk

stradmom · August 21, 2009, 7:04pm

I seem to recall that Vanderbilt promises this.

cellopop · August 21, 2009, 7:48pm

Colburn covers the entire cost (tuition, room, board).

Lawrence seems to cover 100%, though they don’t come right out and say it. Part of the package may include work study or loans.

You should also look at what the school includes in the cost. Some just cover tuition, room and board, other also add in books, supplies, and even travel costs.

flutetalk · August 21, 2009, 7:54pm

Thanks Stradmom, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. This may help others that are interested in Vanderbilt, but my friend has this specific list of schools under consideration, so I am looking for any hints on how to research financial aid policies for these particular schools this without having to wade through each conservatory’s website. My friend only has dial-up internet (due to finances) so I offered to do some legwork (and to loan my computer as necessary).

As an aside, this is a hint for others applying to schools-- research their policies on this matter carefully unless you have plenty of funds – some schools will leave quite a “gap” between what your EFC is and what they will offer.

violadad · August 21, 2009, 9:06pm

Tough question, and beyond Colburn wich is a free ride and the largesse of Curtis with free tuition (but living expenses are largely out of pocket, there are exceptions), most audition based conservatory program money is audition based. The best get the largest amount, and for the most part (based on what I’ve seen), full tuition is about the max award. Again, there are exceptions, and could be for specific individuals. The academic stats to the best of my knowledge are NOT considered in the straight conservatories Curtis, Juilliard, MSM from your list),

Private conservatory level programs tend to be a bit more generous, and may combine academic and merit aid, but a combo package can be very institution specific. Hartt/UHartford example will NOT combine a Hartt talent based award with a UHartford stats based award even if the student meets the stats. The performance award supercedes it.

The publics vary widely. They tend to favor instate in terms of academic money; the talent awards tend to be the best get the most. A lot depends on the draw of the programs.

So much of the detail is school specific, there really are no generalities. Look and read both the financial aid AND scholarship pages. Often conflicting info is in different places. Also, I’m going to give you some past thread links but realize the parameters and awards may NOT be the same form year to year. Things change, endowments may shrink, or an exceptional donor may have bequeathed a windfall. Get the most current info off the website, or direct calls to knowledgeable staff (typically not the clerk that answers the phone).

Northwestern typically does not seem generous with either talent or academic aid from the discussions I remember. There was some particularly confusing passages here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/394705-northwestern.html?highlight=Northwestern[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/394705-northwestern.html?highlight=Northwestern</a>. This may have changed.

Excellent advice. Good luck.

violindad · August 21, 2009, 9:12pm

The College Board’s website has information for most schools (including all state/public universities) on the following: 
Full-time freshman enrollment;
Number who applied for need-based aid;
Number who were judged to have need;
Number who were offered aid;
Number who had full need met
Average percent of need met;
Average financial aid package;
Average need-based loan;
Average need-based scholarship or grant award;
Average non-need based aid; and
Average indebtedness at graduation.

The site is easy to use and it would probably take fewer than 5 minutes to get this information on six to eight schools. Go to: [Official</a> College Planning Tools | Research Colleges and Universities Online](<a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools) and click on “college search.” Once you have your college, click on “Cost & Financial Aid.”

Unfortunately, there is no information on the above for CIM, but I believe that there is for the other schools you mention.

Mezzo_sMama · August 21, 2009, 9:45pm

First,let’s leave Curtis out of this, because they are not like the other schools listed and their criteria for acceptance makes that very clear. They are extremely selective and won’t even permit application if there is not a clear opening in a particular department, no matter how great the applicant.
violadad has pretty much said it all and given the OP’s friend some good links.
Looking at the OP’s list, there is wide variation. No matter how good the programs at several of the schools, they are not of the same caliber of other schools on the list, so that makes it difficult- comparing apples and oranges, if you will. That leaves me to work with some of the conservatories; in today’s economy, I would be very doubtful that any school will meet 100% of financial need, even though the need may be great and supported by paperwork. The info available in print and even on line may not be accurate given the financial crisis that has struck- remember, schools often invest in stocks, and they haven’t been bringing in piles of money lately! Even schools that have a balanced budget, such as CIM, want to ensure that they can continue to do so and have become more cautious with their investments and consequently, with the amount of money they give to students.
One really can’t enter into the audition process asking for 100% funding, that’s not the time to discuss it and may even work against the applicant. One can ask for a waiver of the application fee (it’s better to have the request go throug the HS Guidance Counselor) but there are a few schools who will not budge on that and the fee must be paid or no application/audition. Once everything is completed and the auditions finished, the FA awards will come out either with the acceptance letters or shortly after. At that point, things are open for discussion. Talk to the Finance Director as soon as possible and explain the situation surrounding the need. Some schools will be able to go back, look at the paperwork, talk to the commitee and come up with more (others will refuse discussion, Hartt is one of them), or may say that the aid pool has been exhausted. They may offer ideas such as part-time employment, loans,etc. The student should have ranked the schools he/she was accepted to and must decide how the aid offered meets with the desire to attend that school. 
From what I’ve known about this past year’s auditions and outcomes, Northwestern was very tight with money in the music department as was Julliard.I can speak from personal experience with CIM, and tell you that if they really want the student, they will do all that they can to make attendance possible. We were fortunate in that we were able to appeal the initial aid offer and more was indeed, forthcoming. But, the financial aid package was made up of scholarships, awards, loans and a work-study. My D also applied and auditioned for anything she was qualified for in our local area- that’s a great way to fund travel, music, etc.

stephmin · August 21, 2009, 9:49pm

Curtis and Colburn are highly selective undergraduate (mostly) programs that offer 100 % MERIT awards to their admitted students. While Colburn offers living expenses, I doubt Curtis frequently offers any significant “financial aid” to assist with room and board.

I believe this is true with most all the nations private conservatory schools. They generally have some generous donors who have set up scholarships that award a few selective merit awards that cover 100% of a student’s tuition. NEC, for example, usually has maybe 5 to 10 of these p/a, and they almost always go to pianists or violinists. Juilliard offers 100% merit awards to many of their best applicants each year as well.

However, in my experience it is very rare to see packages from any conservatory that covers an entire tuition based purely on financial need. They are almost always merit awards instead. Students who demonstrate financial need, and are not competitive enough for large merit awards, are generally offered a combination of scholarships, financial aid, loans, and work study.

100% coverage of tuition is very rare. It occurs much more often in graduate programs - especially at the PhD level where most all large universities offer generous fellowships and teaching assistantships to their most deserving students.

musicprnt · August 21, 2009, 10:16pm

Leaving out Colburn and Curtis which as others have pointed out are special cases, there is no simple answer to your question. I know for a fact that Juilliard is not good with financial aid, merit or financial, they might give some 100% scholarships but if they do it is more then likely quite rare, and while MSM reputedly is a bit better according to the grapevine, it too has limited resources.

I know of people who have gone to other conservatories who supposedly give 100% scholarships, a friend of my son’s is going to Peabody in the fall on a full scholarship, but I am led to understand that is rare at most of the top level conservatories.that at most you can geta package of aid and loans but they may not cover 100%, depending on the economics of the student. From what I have heard directly, to get merit scholarships you generally need either to be the next <fill in=“” the=“” blank=“” of=“” favorite=“” famous=“” player=“”> or in some cases, perhaps be a member of an under-represented group in classical music,and that is a long shot.</fill>

One way to find out may be to send an e-mail to the financial aid office at the schools and ask if they ever give 100% scholarships where need and merit are concerned, at least it will give you an idea direct from the source.

I think it also raises a question about how good the friend is. Are they someone who can meet the admission requirements of the school but are otherwise ‘in the middle of the pack’ or are they someone who has already demonstrated incredible talent? I would hazard a guess that someone who can meet the standards but is not already a ‘supertalent’ would be less likely to see such a package then someone who is a ‘wow’.

Singersmom07 · August 22, 2009, 7:07am

You also asked about outside scholarship programs. Probably the most general and national is NFAA ARTS Scholarships [url=<a href=“http://www.nfaa.org/]NFAA[/url”>http://www.nfaa.org/]NFAA[/url</a>]. When DD even had this her application, not even winning, it always generated discussion. It did show how serious she was because of the requirements for application. Other scholarship competitions were voice or instrument specific.

violadad · August 22, 2009, 8:48am

Let’s be a bit clearer. Merit money comes in two or three basic forms:

academic- in the forum of grades, test scores, maybe a National Honor Society type add on, or an essay/interview type institutional “biggie” (typically requires excellent stats & grades to be in that pool anyway).

talent- be it in music, art, dance at the conservatory/conservatory equivalent programs is a function of the quality of an audition or portfolio submission.

Just to avoid confusion, and as a service to future readers, let’s consider that descriptions used can be befuddling. Aid can be the sum of many parts, and many of the schools discussed here overlap in what constitutes merit aid. Straight conservatories typically dispense talent based aid only, academics have no or very little effect on award size.

For clarity, I’d like to again note that distinction.

thumper1 · August 22, 2009, 9:07am

To my knowledge, the only school on this list that meets full need at all is Northwestern BUT I don’t know if that applies to the music students. NU also used to include hefty loans in their finaid packages…don’t know if that is still true or not.

The rest do not guarantee to meet full need.

violadad · August 22, 2009, 9:18am

Yep, and it’s important to understand the definition of “full need”. It is typically not “full need” as seen in the eyes of the student/parents.

It’s the “need” as defined by the institution, a factor of FAFSA, CSS Profile and often additional institutional methodology.

This may be obvious to many, but it’s a point that is quite often missed.

I’m not trying to pick nits (BassDad and I have enough nits on the Master Lists to pick ;)), but its a term that seems to require constant reiterating.

stringfollies · August 22, 2009, 9:55am

University of Maryland (along with other state schools including Indiana U) has a scholar’s scholarship which can be awarded to a music student and which gives a free ride. I don’t remember what it’s called or whether you have to be in-state to get it. If you’re a good student, you can apply separately for this. At IU, it’s called “Wells Scholarship” and it’s so generous it even gives a stipend for summer study - you don’t have to be in-state.

Good luck!

thumper1 · August 22, 2009, 10:10am

There are many schools where SOME students receive generous scholarships…even full rides. BUT there are none on the OP’s list with the exception of NU that GUARANTEE to meet full need as the university calculates it…for ALL students who apply and are accepted.

As Violadad points out…the colleges are the ones that make the computation regarding family contribution and student need for financial aid purposes. For the OP’s list…he/she would fill out the FAFSA for ALL of the schools and the Profile additionally for NU. When my son applied to NU, he also had to fill out a finaid application form that was sent directly to the music department.

The SCHOOLS take the information provided and use their formula to figure out financial need. The federal funding would be a drop in the bucket, even if a student qualified for ALL of the aid provided by the feds (an EFC of $0). Schools meeting FULL NEED use their money to need based aid in excess of the federal dollars. The schools can use any formula they choose to award THEIR money.

We have known some students who got VERY generous aid to some music conservatories. We know NO ONE who has received a full ride as an undergrad, but do know a few students who received full rides as grad students. The AUDITION was the key element in these awards, not financial need.

violadad · August 22, 2009, 10:40am

This can be added to the links I posted in #5

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/719525-full-ride-scholarship-international-violist.html?highlight=international[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/719525-full-ride-scholarship-international-violist.html?highlight=international</a>

operahorn · August 22, 2009, 12:40pm

I believe Ithaca College provides financial aid that meets the FAFSA determined need. But this does include loans. The financial aid officer I spoke with kept saying that we were getting more money this year. It took quite a while for me to get her to understand that my D was not receiving ‘more money’ …that we were being allowed to BORROW money that we would have to pay back. Just my beef with terminology, I guess. But it’s important to realize that schools that offer fully met need often include loans in the aid.

SpiritManager · August 22, 2009, 12:55pm

Northwestern meets full need, as determined through FAFSA and CSS Profile and evaluated by the school (as is always the case in private institutions.) And if your income is under a certain threshold there are no loans. Loans are capped at something like 20K for a four year program, I believe, for all other students receiving assistance. I don’t know about any of the other schools on the OP’s list. And financial aid is a completely different animal than merit aid.

thumper1 · August 22, 2009, 1:14pm

Ithaca does not guarantee to meet full need for all students who apply and are accepted.

compmom · August 22, 2009, 5:45pm

It is good to look into all this ahead of time. Our daughter got into some top conservatories, with pretty good merit aid based on audition/portfolio, but in the end, after all that preparation and all those interviews and exams (she is a composer), we could not afford it. She is going to college for a few years and keeps the option of transferring to conservatory open. This route saves us money for two years and would make the last two years at conservatory possible. It works better for composers than instrumentalists, I think.

Would we change what we did? Honestly, no. The whole process did, as I said, keep options for the future open, and it was a good learning experience. She also gained some confidence as a musician, which, hopefully, is a plus for any applicant who does the seemingly grinding application and audition process.

There are hidden benefits to applying, even if your friend can’t, in the end, pay- for now.

Also, attending a state university’s BM program as an in-state student can be a very good, affordable option. For complicated reasons, our daughter could not do this (she plays classical guitar, and they required an instrument other than classical guitar). Many of those schools have great faculty, and some talented kids who are there for the affordability as well.

Conservatories that meet 100% of financial need?

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