<p>My dd is looking into programs for a BM with no academic requirements in the degree at all. She herself does not have the academics to get into a good academic school, anyway.</p>
<p>Also are there any of the schools that have academics that admit students with less than stellar high school academics?</p>
<p>thanks!</p>
<p>What do you mean NO academics at all? All degree-granting schools will have courses in their curriculum besides just private lessons and ensemble rehearsals! Theory, ear-training, music history, all count as academics. Most schools also do have liberal arts credits that are required though, such as writing, literature, art history, etc etc etc.</p>
<p>Schools (conservatories, NOT uni’s!) in the UK generally are more focused on private instruction over coursework. They generally don’t require any classes not related to music.</p>
<p>She loves ear training, music theory and composition. She hates math, English, history and the usual high school classes.</p>
<p>She would love a place like Curtis, but I would like her to apply at some other schools with a more likely admission as well!</p>
<p>Most of the conservatory programs, Juilliard, NEC, Mannes, Manhattan, Longy, Curtis, Colburn and others of that ilk are almost exclusively auditioned based. For BM candidates in a performance discipline, the minimums tend to be a high school diploma, home school equivalent, or GED certificate. Juilliard specifically does not require the SAT or ACT as an undergrad requirement, and the others may or may not, but the exact parameters are stipulated on the appropriate websites. Most, if not all of the conservatories offer a Diploma or certificate program, which has no academic requirements, and is usually a three rather than four year duration as opposed to a degree focused BM. </p>
<p>A four year degree will include academics, including non-discipline related degree requirements. The amount and intensity will vary among programs. The best comparison is found in comparing the specific requirements in the institution’s undergrad handbook. This will detail the degree requirements and distribution in far more depth than the overview found in the admissions webpages.</p>
<p>You may want to verify the requirements at the various state top-level programs like IU/Jacobs, UMich Ann Arbor. While there may be less emphasis on a top candidate’s academic skills for a performance based BM, each has their own low-side threshold for academic standards. These programs may or may not offer a non academic Performance Diploma or Certificate.</p>
<p>And stephmin makes a good point. Even the diploma/certificate type programs have requirements in theory, history, aural skills, which are “academics”, although not the liberal arts type of academics required in an undergrad BM program.</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore at MSM in NYC and he likewise wanted as few academics as possible. Aside from the music history, theory, aurals, etc - his only non music subject is four semesters of humanities - which are basically literature courses. He will graduate with a BM. he toyed with considering diploma programs - but wanted the graduate school option if decides to go that route.</p>
<p>My son was a pretty solid B student in HS…with the occasional C…He always aced everything to do with music. He’s a senior at Oberlin in Vocal Performance. He was accepted at Eastman at his live audition with a full scholarship…but he really preferred Oberlin. He does have to do actual studying, lol…such as languages, theory etc…which he still isn’t the greatest fan of. If he could he would have Opera class all day long, or his lessons…anything that was actually musical. However, the courses he is studying are all so inter-realted to his major, that he’s doing very well…(even in languages, which he needs to know, to sing properly). I know he’s totally enjoying “film” this sem…lol, cause they watch movies most of the time, then discuss them the rest of the time. I think I’d love that myself. The audition is totally key for conservatories…but, I do think the person must show some aptitude for being able to learn some complicated material. Music is not a “gravy” major, like some people seem to think. Its very complicated once you start to learn all the elements that go into it.</p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter:)</p>
<p>to gain accreditation, BMus programs must include some general studies; in some schools, the requirements are fairly minimal, e.g., Colburn has a required humanities sequence, but it sees itself, according to Robert Lipsett, as performance centered. Juilliard also has a humanities series that is required, but fairly minimal. By contrast, at Oberlin, students are required to take 8 electives in the college; some take courses like dance, others take academic courses, but Oberlin takes academics seriously and the music history and theory courses are demanding and require language and writing skills to do well.
Here’s a link the the accreditation requirements
<a href=“http://nasm.arts-accredit.org/site/docs/Handbook/NASM_HANDBOOK_2009-2010.pdf[/url]”>http://nasm.arts-accredit.org/site/docs/Handbook/NASM_HANDBOOK_2009-2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is interesting. I wondered what the humanities/academic requirements would be like for my son who is at NEC. He seems to be mostly consumed by performance–didn’t even have one book to buy this semester! A teacher joked when asked about grades: why do you care about grades, you’re a musician! This is great for my son, who has never been a traditionalist, or a people pleaser, and is someone who really lives the philosophy that learning is for learning’s sake.</p>
<p>I have to say…musicians need to be good writers also. They have to have the ability to write (things like their resumes, program notes, bios, etc). I’m not sure I would advocate for a program that completely ignores this facet of instruction. Even music theory, music history, and composition require a certain level of writing competence. Most stand alone conservatories focus on the music end of the studies, but they usually do have some kind of humanities course requirements in order to award a Bachelors degree.</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with you, thumper. I am not happy he had no books required this semester, but I am realizing that this education is different from the one my older two kids receive at universities in other majors. Actually, I notice that students at this conservatory do a lot of independent reading and share books with each other. And tahe theory and ear training classes are challenging. This semester he is taking a “styles” class which is like music history and requires several analytical papers on the styles of different musicians. I feel that he is getting a good education and all the performance he has been wanting as well.</p>
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<p>This highlights what I was saying. Even AT stand alone conservatories, there are writing requirements for some of the courses. I don’t believe it’s realistic for a musician to think they will earn a BMA without having SOME courses that have an “academic” component…and it’s usually writing.</p>
<p>The OP made it sound like the daughter wanted to do music playing…and related coursework only. My point was that the related coursework includes competency in writing.</p>
<p>FYI…DS studied at the Royal College of Music in London for a term his junior year. They also had the same kinds of requirements as the stand alone conservatories here…including music history, theory, etc. AND DS DID have to write.</p>
<p>this is what the faq on the NEC site says:
What is the difference between a Conservatory and a University?
Conservatories offer concentration in one specific area. Although the student does have liberal arts and seminar requirements, all other academic courses center around music. Students also study privately in weekly lessons with their assigned faculty member.</p>
<p>NEC also has some programs with academic schools, of course – Tufts and Harvard. Juilliard had an arrangement with Columbia that students, depending on their grades, status, etc., can take a course at Columbia during the semester.
So there is obviously a range of academic breadth and depth beyond the music requirements (theory, aural skills, music history). Whether a student cares about grades in such courses is an individual matter, of course.</p>
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<p>There are a number of possibilities. For example, it may not be difficult for someone very musical but with less than stellar academics to get into these Bachelors of Music programs.</p>
<p>U of Iowa
[Prospective</a> Students - School of Music - College of Liberal Arts & Sciences - The University of Iowa](<a href=“http://www.uiowa.edu/~music/prospective/undergraduate.htm]Prospective”>http://www.uiowa.edu/~music/prospective/undergraduate.htm)</p>
<p>U Colorado Boulder
[Undergraduate</a> Admissions | College of Music | University of Colorado at Boulder](<a href=“http://www.colorado.edu/music/applying/ugradapply/index.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.colorado.edu/music/applying/ugradapply/index.html)</p>
<p>U North Dakota:
[Music</a> Department | The University of North Dakota](<a href=“http://www2.und.nodak.edu/undmusic/academic.php]Music”>http://www2.und.nodak.edu/undmusic/academic.php)</p>
<p>“I have to say…musicians need to be good writers also. They have to have the ability to write (things like their resumes, program notes, bios, etc). I’m not sure I would advocate for a program that completely ignores this facet of instruction. Even music theory, music history, and composition require a certain level of writing competence. Most stand alone conservatories focus on the music end of the studies, but they usually do have some kind of humanities course requirements in order to award a Bachelors degree.” -THUMPER1</p>
<p>Thumper1, I agree with you! If you look through the posts by students on these boards, and I am referring to the ones from kids who haven’t gained admittance to any of the schools of their choice or who have no idea why they can’t even get an audition , there is a common factor- awful spelling and poor grammar. No matter how important music is to someone, there are still applications to be filled out and essays to be written and if those are terribly lacking in composition, even the best musician could be denied admission before he/she even got to the audition. We all know that there are so many really talented musicians out there, so how do schools make choices? At one of my D’s recent auditions, an Asst.Admissions Director told me that if, all things considered, two applicants are ranked equally after their auditions and any other music related testing that the school may use, the committee will then look at the academic rankings of the students. I know that my own D is looking only at conservatory-based programs even though she is at the top of her class in a difficult college prep school. She lives for her music and will be completely happy taking nothing but classes about, pertaining to and helping her with music, so I am respecting her decision.
Yes, they may never need courses they took in high school, but everyone must take them, so, might as well make the best of the time so that you can use what you need!</p>
<p>I have actually a few friends who are (were) at NEC who complained that NEC had TOO many liberal arts requirements! They were in at least one liberal arts course each of their 8 semesters.</p>
<p>I also have friends at Mannes and Peabody who say that their conservatories require their students to undertake plenty of liberal arts credits due to the nature of how their schools are connected to a larger university (New School and Johns Hopkins, respectively.)</p>
<p>Lastly, I also have friends that studied in London and in Paris who went through their entire undergraduate careers without ever taking a non-music discipline class. Perhaps, since classical music is an European artform, the European institutions have a tradition of requiring more time and attention spent on it from their students? Or perhaps, the American model of Higher Education is much more uniform and structured than anywhere else? Maybe a combination of both?</p>
<p>I really would recommend having your daughter learn things that aren’t music. It’ll make her life better. Hell, 90% of my friends aren’t musicians, but people of OTHER disciplines (economics, computer science, business, criminology, english etc…)</p>
<p>Just for the record, Eastman also requires 24 credits of non-music classes. They can all be taken at Eastman or students can choose anything at the main UR campus. I have heard that Eastman is considered the most academic of the major conservatories, although I think Oberlin would beat it out in that category. Academics is a factor for admissions to Eastman.</p>
<p>Well, DD is onesided! She does write, however, but only if it makes sense to her. An essay on Hamlet? Not gonna happen. On the other hand she is attending a course on grant writing at our community college because she sees it as necessary for ever working in music.</p>
<p>I think the grant writing is probably more inportant - for her - than essays on Hamlet!</p>
<p>Actually, Oberlin Conservatory could be almost anywhere on the academic scale depending on how you use your 24 elective hours. There is one required writing course which is waived for those who score at least 580 on SAT verbal, 24 on ACT, or 600 on TOEFL. Otherwise, you could concentrate on things like advanced calculus, physics and neuroscience, or you could look for some of the classes that are not as academically challenging. There are classes in the Math and Science departments, for example, that are mainly there to help those who are not majoring in those areas meet their distribution requirements. (Hint: look for course numbers that start with a 0.)</p>
<p>Some of the Liberal Arts electives can even be music-related, for example some of the classes in the African American Studies department, a couple of offerings in the College Music department that are open to Conservatory students, a Psychology course that deals specifically with the Arts, several ExCo (Experimental College) classes and classes in Dance and Theater if you can snag a spot in one of them.</p>
<p>Another avenue to explore as she identifies possible schools/conservatories of interest: the Pass/Fail option for liberal arts course work - or lack of an option.</p>
<p>For example, CIM (Cleveland Institute) requires 8 Gen. Ed. courses - one being a required writing course. The Gen Eds can be taken Pass/Fail. Only the Writing Class needs to be passed with a “C”. If she can figure out how to Pass everything else with a “D-”, she will still officially “Pass”! </p>
<p>Has your D taken any AP courses? Some schools may give her credit for these reducing the total number of non-music academic courses needed.</p>