Conservatories

<p>I'm somewhat involved in editing Wikipedia when I'm not practicing (dry, I know, but it's a relatively easy/practical way to practice a bit of computer programming cause I'm kind of into that) and so I made a list of conservatories in America by category, located here: List</a> of conservatories of music in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>I hope this is helpful for anyone looking for a school, especially if they prefer the less general education-based track of a conservatory. However, I suggest you use the list more as a tab you hold open while you visit schools' websites; don't rely on the sometimes incomplete Wikipedia articles it links to for choosing to apply to a school. That said, those articles tend to be more factual and less biased than the schools' own websites.</p>

<p>Also, this is based solely off of Googling and my own prior knowledge and I'm sure the list isn't quite perfect. If anyone has any suggestions (I don't know a thing about a few of the schools on there) or any schools to be added, feel free to let me know or edit it yourself if you know how! One question that pops up almost immediately is whether Westminster Choir College of Rider University belongs on this list. I can't tell if it's a conservatory. Also, before I get a million comments about defining conservatories or how Indiana University, etc have just as good of non-conservatory programs, I realize that they're difficult to categorize and that they're not the end all and be all of music education. Thanks!</p>

<p>You left out Wheaton College Conservatory of Music in Wheaton, IL.</p>

<p>Maybe you could do a short paragraph at the top just clraifying the definition of a conservatory so that people who don’t see their music school on the list would know why.</p>

<p>That’s actually the second to last school under the first section, but good suggestion. I just need a formal definition. So far I’ve been using any school that refers to itself as a conservatory and most that are “colleges of music” since those schools also tend to be conservatories in terms of not having a gen ed focus. I’ve noticed that “school of music” generally denotes not being a conservatory, although Eastman and Manhattan would beg to differ.</p>

<p>The effort will be helpful to students. Just as an aside it is The Oberlin Conservatory of Music or the Conservatory of Music of Oberlin College not Oberlin College Conservatory of Music. Picky I know.</p>

<p>PianoMan, I would be interested in seeing your definition. I don’t understand why Eastman is there if other schools of music are being excluded.</p>

<p>I think using what the school titles itself is tricky, because some “schools of music” are conservatories, and some conservatories technically could be considered “schools of music”.</p>

<p>The definition of conservatory I use is that a conservatory is exactly that, a school dedicated to arts training only (for example, Juilliard has dance and drama was well as music). MSM by that definition is a conservatory. </p>

<p>Bard on the other hand calls itself the “Bard Conservatory of Music” yet Bard’s school of music is not stand alone, when you go to Bard you are admitted to the college academically and have to dual major. </p>

<p>Rice calls its music program “the school of music” and while you have to be admitted academically to the school, you don’t have to dual major…</p>

<p>Might be better to use “stand alone schools of music” and “Music School within a college/university” rather then conservatory or schools of music, since the term school of music and conservatory can be used in names of schools in confusing ways.</p>

<p>musicprnt, I agree. To that end, Wikipedia has a listing for music schools but it is lacking quite a few schools: </p>

<p>[Music</a> schools in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_schools_in_the_United_States]Music”>Music schools in the United States - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>To me, the one distinction I would understand would be whether students at schools within universities take their general education requirements with other university students. I could be wrong but, from what I can tell, Peabody students do not (here is their list of courses and it includes Humanities courses <a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/data/148/link/5638/Master%20Schedule%20Spring%202012%20November%20Pre-reg%20Edition.pdf[/url]”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/data/148/link/5638/Master%20Schedule%20Spring%202012%20November%20Pre-reg%20Edition.pdf</a> ) but CCM students do. So I think of Peabody along the lines of Juilliard and CCM along the lines of Eastman (and Jacobs and other schools of music).</p>

<p>But it gets tricky because at some schools such at Peabody and NEC you can take all your LA courses within the school but you are not required to do so. Peabody with JHU and NEC with Northeastern and Tufts. There are many other examples. And these are not dual degree programs. I think broader catagories are better. Conservatories/Schools of Music with formal ties to colleges and universities, and then those that don’t. Oberlin would be in the first group and MSM in the second and so on.</p>

<p>Compdad, The list you propose already exists on Wikipedia. (That’s the link I included.) It specifically lists independent conservatories and those that are part of a larger university.</p>

<p>Pianoman wants to create an additional list. If there is to be a benefit to an additional list, I don’t see the sense in using the institution’s choice of wording because there’s too much overlap. In that case, I would separate the schools in the university list as I said.</p>

<p>^Indeed.
But I really don’t think it’s useful to incorrectly distinguish between schools of music and conservatories when it comes to the focus. Consider the definition of conservatory:</p>

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<p>So, by this definition, a conservatory offers ADVANCED studies, usually in fine arts. I am thinking the majority of top programs that require auditions and have professional degrees such as a BMUS or BFA would then qualify as conservatory in this regard, correct? I mean, they’re PROFESSIONAL degrees.</p>

<p>In which case I would make the case for the University of Michigan School of Music Theater and Dance, which is in fact frequently refers to itself as a fine arts conservatory, and that has a separate admissions department and graduation requirements completely independent of the University of Michigan. Right? And why wouldn’t Jacobs be on there as well? Or Thornton, at USC?</p>

<p>In the case of UMich, it was actually a “conservatory” before it joined the university. Just to confuse things further :wink: Hi ho!</p>

<p>So make the original list more complete and don’t worry about another one. Sorry for not clicking on your link 2college, before posting.</p>

<p>I agree with kmcmom13 that UMich and Jacobs and Thornton have as much right to inclusion (perhaps more?) than some other listed institutions.</p>

<p>Here’s what I would love to see (but obviously this would require more work and would require annual updating): a list which indicates how many hours/credits of non-music courses are required for graduation (or what % of the grad requirements are not in music). Any attempt to rate quality of programs is futile (and fortunately the OP made no such attempt and therefore included a very wide range of calibres of schools), but many students are interested in either focusing narrowly on music or on getting a broader education and therefore would be interested in seeing how much music they can take or have to take, and how much non-music they can take or have to take. </p>

<p>If I had the power to define words (:)), then to cleanly define “conservatory”, I would use the % of time devoted exclusively to music as the basis for my definition.</p>

<p>kmcmom, I agree that there’s no reason to use the school’s definition of conservatory although I could see distinguishing between stand-alone conservatories and conservatories/ schools of music in larger universities-- which would include Michigan, Jacobs, Thornton and, frankly, many more (Maryland, Minnesota, Rutgers, etc). </p>

<p>violindad, Yes, something like that would be incredibly useful. The reason I would like info on whether or not students are taking gen eds outside the school is because when those gen eds are at the school (like NEC or Peabody), it seems to me they are very music-focused.</p>

<p>Compdad - Thanks, that’s the kind of stuff I was hoping to get. Change made!</p>

<p>violindad - I completely agree with your percentage idea. In fact, I’ve thought the same thing before.</p>

<p>musicprnt - I’m in agreement that it’s a little bit strange that Bard’s conservatory is called a conservatory, given the BA requirement. I’m assuming it has to do with the conservatory’s own core requirements and that that program looks similar in course hours to Lawrence’s double degree program or maybe Oberlin’s, depending on the collaboration between the Conservatory and the College.</p>

<p>I wish there was a consortium of conservatories that would define themselves for us. Perhaps we can all go complain to a bunch of schools and prompt them to create it so my page’s intended purpose of helping those who wish to go the conservatory route pick a school is easier to carry out! ;)</p>

<p>PianoMan, I see the changes. Still not sure why some other schools aren’t listed: </p>

<p>USC (Thornton), Miami (Frost), Queens (Copland), Maryland (SOM), Temple (Boyer) Minnesota (SOM), Rutgers (Mason Gross), Fl State (College of Music), Houghton (Greatbatch)… </p>

<p>(I’m just listing schools which were suggested to us along the way, no intention of ranking them.)</p>

<p>I think it’s ironic that we are discussing the difference between a School of Music and a Conservatory for a Wikipedia list. Enter “Conservatory” in Wikipedia and they forward the entry to “Music School”. I think schools like Bard realize that the nomenclature is basically interchangeable.</p>

<p>Bard is a 5 year required dual degree program. Lawrence is a 5 year optional dual degree program but you have to apply to the university in order to be in the con at all. Oberlin has a five year dual degree program that is optional. You must be accepted by both the college and the conservatory for thatprogram. Each has its own admissions office. You can, as my son did, apply only to the conservatory. Should he attend, he will take his LA courses in the college but has no distribution requirements.</p>

<p>It is also possible to get into the dual degree program in the second year at Oberlin after having been there for a year in only the College or only the Con. It is relatively easy to do from the Con, the main requirement being obtaining two recommendations from teachers in the College whose class you have taken. It is relatively hard to do from the College because of the audition requirements.</p>

<p>I agree that in reality the term school of music and conservatory are interchangeable in the way they are commonly used, my comment on it was purely arbitrary, there is no way to say “a conservatory is superior to a music school” or vice versa. I do like the idea of a list that describes things like is the program attached to a college or not, what kind of core courses are required, are they taken at the music school or can they be taken elsewhere, etc…</p>

<p>Compdad, I realize that. I was trying to say that I assume that even though Bard requires the BA, its program is probably similar in coursework distribution to one of those two or maybe halfway in between (Lawrence requires 1/3 of its coursework in liberal arts and Oberlin requires 1/5 if you only do the BM; Lawrence double degrees are half and half, I’m not sure about Oberlin’s). BassDad, there’s a guy in the voice program there that switched to a double degree with German studies. If anyone wants more info on that I can contact him, albeit I’m more or less only an acquaintance of his. Musicprnt, thanks, I thought that would be an important distinction to make between different schools, as obviously CCM yields a much different college experience than say Juilliard.</p>