<p>With all the problems with overuse of antibiotics, we might all be better off if the BC pills were free and the antibiotics were not.</p>
<p>I think it’s a form of very meaningful national defense for the federal government to provide single-payer health insurance, including coverage for birth control.</p>
<p>If the proper role of government is to deal with national defense but not with birth control, then conscience has nothing to do with the matter. And I think that’s your position, zoosermom: the government ought not to be mandating that any business provide health insurance including birth control. In fact, if I’m not mistaking the matter, you further believe that government (1) should not be mandating that businesses offer health insurance full stop and (2) should not be dictating the coverage of insurance that businesses offer, if they decide to offer their employees some sort of health insurance. You are not making any argument about freedom of conscience, then, because you think that businesses can make insurance decisions for any reason at all. Which is a perfectly consistent belief.</p>
<p>But others on this thread have said that contraception coverage is special. They say that the contraception mandate is objectionable because it violates employer’s freedom of religion-- they should not be forced to go against their conscience, their strongly held moral beliefs. I’m now addressing those people: if you believe that Catholic employers should not be required to offer health insurance that includes contraception because Catholics have a moral objection to contraception and not because the government has no business regulating what employer-supplied health insurance covers, what is the principle here, and why does it not apply to others who have moral objections to what their dollars are funding?</p>
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I think that’s pretty close! I’m also not Catholic, so perhaps I have no consciece?</p>
<p>You have a conscience, zoosermom.</p>
<p>I’m still waiting for a defense of the freedom of conscience exemption to obeying laws and regulations everyone else has to obey-- from someone who, unlike zoosermom, has asserted there ought to be such an exemption.</p>
<p>I don’t understand what the principle is supposed to be here, but let’s take a different example. How about the death penalty? Catholic teachings oppose capital punishment. Why does a good Catholic have to pay taxes to pay for prisoners to be killed by the Federal government, and her state government if she lives in Texas? What’s the rule for this proposed conscience exemption, where a person or a company doesn’t have to obey the law if they say it violates their religion?</p>
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<p>You’re misunderstanding Catholic teaching. The Church is against divorce, war and the death penalty BUT THEY DO NOT SAY that those things are intrinsically evil. That’s why Catholics can be divorce lawyers, serve in wars, and even “pull the switch” if working on death row. </p>
<p>However, birth control and abortion have been defined by the Church as instrinsically evil, therefore no participation can be acceptable.</p>
<p>(That said, I have no idea of why this thread keeps going on…it’s just a back-door way to bash the Catholic Church something that’s not allowed to happen to other faiths.)</p>
<p>Umm, the Catholic Church does say the death penalty is intrinsically evil. It’s considered murder, and as such it’s considered evil: [Pope</a> backs initiatives to abolish the death penalty - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube) [Pope</a> seeks end to death penalty - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501714_162-57333866/pope-seeks-end-to-death-penalty/]Pope”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501714_162-57333866/pope-seeks-end-to-death-penalty/) [RELIGIOUS</a> VIEWS: Pope John Paul II’s Statements on the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center](<a href=“http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1403]RELIGIOUS”>http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1403)</p>
<p>I think you need to be better informed.</p>
<p>“because Catholics have a moral objection to contraception”</p>
<p>Catholics DON’T have a moral objection to contraception. The vast overwhelming majority of Catholics have a moral objection to making it difficult to get contraception, and to not including it in preventive health services. It’s absolutely overwhelming. They have a moral objection to NOT providing contraception. Which is why hundreds of Catholic health systems, hospitals, charities, schools, colleges, universities, and CHURCHES voluntarily provide contraceptive coverage to their employees - Catholic and non-Catholic alike. </p>
<p>Now maybe “the body of Christ” is different from its members. That’s not for me to judge. But to say that Catholics have a moral objection to contraception is a bunch of hooey.</p>
<p>So then, the principle is, if a religion says something is “intrinsically evil” then its adherents don’t have to obey laws and regulations that apply to everyone else regarding the “intrinsic evil”? </p>
<p>So then Scientologists don’t have to pay taxes that support mental health clinics that dispense antidepressants?</p>
<p>I believe cars are intrinsically evil. (Really, I do.) If I am a real estate developer, am I exempt from providing the garage space and parking spaces that everyone else has to provide?</p>
<p>Quakers, I believe, say wars are intrinsically evil. They still have to pay taxes to support the military.</p>
<p>I don’t see how the principle If I say it’s intrinsically evil I don’t have to pay for it could possibly work. I don’t think Catholics [on edit- see later message] are being honest. I don’t think they actually believe in this principle. It can’t work, it can’t possibly work, if you think about it for one millisecond you know it can’t work, and therefore, the whole controversy is either just grandstanding or it is asking for a special rule for Catholics that nobody else gets to take advantage of.</p>
<p>I think - and the evidence indicates - that the vast majority of Catholics ARE being honest, and support provision of preventive health services, specifically including contraception.</p>
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<p>If you would substitute “Bishops” for “Catholics,” I would feel a whole lot better. Please don’t lump us all together. ;)</p>
<p>You’re right. Let me rephrase:</p>
<p>I don’t see how the principle If I say it’s intrinsically evil I don’t have to pay for it could possibly work. I don’t think ** the Catholic bishops and their supporters** are being honest in advocating this rule. I don’t think they actually believe in this principle. It can’t work, it can’t possibly work, if you think about it for one millisecond you know it can’t work, and therefore, the whole controversy is either just grandstanding or it is asking for a special rule for Catholics that nobody else gets to take advantage of.</p>
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<p>First, questioning the leaders and their supporters of a religion that wants special rights on an issue outside of religion is not bashing. Second, if you’re feeling “victimized” as a Christian in this country, I invite you to try being Muslim or, for that matter, someone who doesn’t believe in God at all.</p>
<p>Who’s using the back door?</p>
<h1>Umm, the Catholic Church does say the death penalty is intrinsically evil. It’s considered murder, and as such it’s considered evil: Pope backs initiatives to abolish the death penalty - YouTube Pope seeks end to death penalty - CBS News RELIGIOUS VIEWS: Pope John Paul II’s Statements on the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center</h1>
<p>I think you need to be better informed.</p>
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<p>Umm…no She doesn’t…and I don’t use secular sources who often wrongly interpret what the Church is saying or take things out of context.</p>
<p>The Church can never officially declare something to be intrinsically evil that hasn’t ALWAYS been intrinsically evil and will always be intrinsically evil. You have to understand why. Something can be called evil when there are alternative punishments…which is what the Church has done…however, it can’t officially declare it “intrinsically evil” because that would mean that centuries-past (justifiable) death penalties were evil when those times didn’t have the means to properly safeguard its community. And, the Church can’t declare it intrinsically evil for future because no one knows what the future holds and certain societies may not have the means to protect its people without that option.</p>
<p>For something to be intrinsically evil in the eyes of the Church is has to be wrong in all instances…past, present, and future…for every society …rich or poor…small or large…and the DP can’t pass that test. Imagine a small community on some island at some point in time (past or future) that has a killer in its midst. They determine guilt but do not have the means to keep him from imprisoned for the safeguard of others…the DP is not evil in that case…which is why the DP cannot be called intrinsically evil…</p>
<p>Anyway…thankfully the Church with its Divine origins can’t be destroyed or even truly hurt by this thread or anything else…She will be the last Church standing.</p>
<p>While I am currently not at all religious, I was raised in a very Catholic family, went to Catholic school until I was 18, plus Sunday school, plus Catholic camps in summer. Even volunteered when the Pope visited my country and I was in HS. I think you need to read EVANGELIUM VITAE, by John Paul II, or talk to your priest. The current Pope has also been very clear about the death penalty. In many countries, bishops even debated whether pro-death penalty politicians should be denied communion.</p>
<p>Edit: I found a link to the Evangelium Vitae, or Gospel of Life encylcical I mentioned: <a href=“Evangelium Vitae (25 March 1995) | John Paul II”>Evangelium Vitae (25 March 1995) | John Paul II;
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<p>If you think atheists aren’t being bashed all the time, you’re not paying attention. Or you’re one of the bashers yourself.</p>
<p>If birth control is “intrinsically evil”, are the 98% of Catholic women who practice it intrinsically evil? Or the 67% of Catholics who not only support it, but support a mandate that it be included in all health plans and preventive health services intrinsically evil? Are the Catholic institutions and CHURCHES who provide it through their insurance intrinsically evil? Are the priests and monsignors and nuns who sit on the boards of the those colleges, universities, hospitals, and social services industries intrinsically evil? Or is it just the practice that they overwhelmingly support?</p>
<p>I almost feel guilty for asking the question. There would seem to be an enormous number of intrinsically evil Catholic people, or who systematically ignore or who work against Church teachings. But the reason I feel guilty is because this is obviously not really a question for Catholics at all, except for some elderly men in dresses.</p>
<p>I apologize to those who feel like this is a challenge to their faith. Frankly, I really don’t care whether folks believe in Jesus, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or none of the above, or if they follow the Pope in Rome, the Pope in Montana, or the Pope in Australia. I want to know if people are kind, and if we can incorporate a little bit of kindness (which is what I see this as ultimately being about) into good public policy.</p>
<p>CF: Very good point. As a nonreligious person/agnostic, I get more bashing in my daily life than when I was religious. It reminded me of this article: [Atheism</a> in America: Why won’t the U.S. accept its atheists? - Slate Magazine](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/articles/life/ft/2012/02/atheism_in_america_why_won_t_the_u_s_accept_its_atheists_.single.html]Atheism”>Atheism in America: Why won’t the U.S. accept its atheists?)</p>
<p>I am intrinsically evil.</p>