<p>Tea :). </p>
<p>I too did all the Catholic things and it took me a long time to get over Catholic guilt so I understand the sentiment. I’m so sorry about your father.
Can a Priest refuse Communion to a Catholic? For some strange reason, I thought that wasn’t up to him- I thought it had to go through someone higher up. I am most likely wrong about this though.</p>
<p>Are these hate crimes against individual Jews, or against Jewish organizations? </p>
<p>Disgusting bigots attack synagogues and other Jewish organizations. They can’t attack atheist organizations and buildings because there aren’t any to speak of, but individual atheists are persecuted and reviled. </p>
<p>Consider the young woman who sued to remove a prayer from her school: hate mail, death threats. Florists wouldn’t even deliver flowers to her. </p>
<p>And is it acceptable nowadays for Presidential candidates to attack Jews? No, it isn’t, but Newt Gingrich thinks it’s appropriate to say attack atheists and say we are untrustworthy. </p>
<p>Probably we shouldn’t try to top one another with victim stories, though. Hate crimes against Jews are despicable.</p>
<p>An old, semi-retired priest with a military retirement check can pretty much do anything he wants.</p>
<p>And thank you, romanigypsyeyes. it was a looooong time ago.</p>
<p>
Both. I was pointing out that there really is religious bigotry in this country and when we disagree with the doctrine of one, we must be even more careful not to make that bigotry acceptable because violence sometimes follows, although the age old anti semitism still prevails. Whatever else we may stand for in this country, we unquestionably stand for religious liberty and it makes me personally uncomfortable to read or hear bashing or mocking. I think we have to be more careful to disagree respectfully when the disagreement concerns religion. YMMV.</p>
<p>I agree, zoos. I don’t agree with Catholic doctrine, and I don’t think Catholic businesses can avoid laws others must obey, but I was raised a Catholic, baptised, confirmed and married in the Church. My mother, sisters and brothers are Catholics. I don’t agree with bashing an entire religious group. I don’t think remarks about “elderly men in dresses” are appropriate.</p>
<p>You aren’t really a cardinal are you, CF? Lol</p>
<p>I also think zoosermom said it well. I was brought up in family of long-line staunch Methodists, including preachers. I can honestly say I never felt any form of religious discrimination my entire life…until I married a cradle Catholic. </p>
<p>There’s a great deal more anti-Catholicism in this country than I would have ever guessed. It came as somewhat of a surprise to me, especially given that 22% of this country is Catholic. I thought there were some disrectful and inappropriate comments in this thread.</p>
<p>“I don’t think remarks about “elderly men in dresses” are appropriate.”</p>
<p>I think it not only is appropriate, but is an excellent way to avoid bashing Catholics for a doctrine put forward by very few, ignored by the overwhelming number of those subjected to it, and indicating a group that isn’t subject to it in the least. </p>
<p>Think about it: Take the Catholic part out: Who - precisely - is MAKING this doctrine that is supposed to be adhered to by young, sexually active women?</p>
<p>But okay, instead of “elderly men in dresses”, we can make it “ageing men, supposedly celibate, of uncertain sexual orientation, with little or no experience of the society’s sexual mores, without any firsthand experiences of the vicissitudes of family life, who do not raise children, with guaranteed income and housing and medical care for life, and strange or at least alternative choices in clothing”.</p>
<p>I’m not Catholic, so I can’t speak to anti-Catholic bigotry. But for a persecuted group, the church seems to have a lot of power including, apparently, power over the whole country’s health insurance coverage. I really wish some of that outrage were aimed at the fact that so many Americans don’t have insurance at all, and many who do are paying ruinous costs.</p>
<p>Oh there’s a bully in the room alright. </p>
<p>“Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms”</p>
<p>Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.</p>
<p>“Children being born out of wedlock is not automatically a bad thing.”</p>
<p>Correct. There are always individual exceptions. But, overall, the statistical data is quite clear on this point. On every possible outcome that can be measured, children born to never-married mothers do the absolute worst. Children born to (and raised by) married couples do best. (Children raised in same-sex households are such a tiny group that there are no reliable studies to examine.) </p>
<p>The real national crisis is NOT access to contraception, but the fact that nonmarital births have become epidemic, especially in black and low-income/education white communities. And the government won’t make a dent in that crisis by forcing Catholic employers to provide free birth control to their employees.</p>
<p>“How about the death penalty? Catholic teachings oppose capital punishment. Why does a good Catholic have to pay taxes to pay for prisoners to be killed by the Federal government, and her state government if she lives in Texas?”</p>
<p>Well, again, it’s the difference between the state interest involved. Capital punishment (which I oppose as well) is part of the criminal justice system. The government’s interest in enforcing the criminal laws is like national defense – it is unquestionably one of the reasons we have governments in the first place. So, when the political process decides that capital punishment is necessary, our legal system gives that decision great deference, and any religious objections by taxpayers necessarily give way. </p>
<p>It’s just not possible to identify a comparable compelling state interest in the case of forcing Catholic employers to provide free birth control. </p>
<p>And, for all those who keep pointing to public opinion polls that purport to demonstrate strong public support for the contraception mandate, I’m wondering whether you would give equal deference to opinion polls showing even stronger support for capital punishment. Or is public opinion only a factor when the public agrees with you?</p>
<p>"Bay, are you saying that with this contraception mandate, no woman will use more effective contraception, and no woman will use contraception who wouldn’t have absent the mandate, so the only difference will be that women don’t have to pay for their prescription contraception out of pocket? That, you think, will be the only difference?</p>
<p>I just don’t see how that could possibly be true on the margin. You’d be saying that financial incentives have no effect."</p>
<p>You’re missing the point. It might well be true on the MARGIN that some women will use more effective contraception, and that others might start using it, if they don’t have to pay for it. But overall, it’s not going to make a dent. Because, as you can’t seem to grasp, LOTS of people don’t respond to the same financial incentives that you do. Poor women can already get free or virtually free birth control at public health clinics (financed by our tax dollars, btw), but many of them don’t. Even though they have obvious financial incentives to do so.</p>
<p>“So, how are those women regarded by the Catholic Church? Is each one going to hell if she hasn’t confessed their sin and sincerely repented? Do Catholic women feel guilty about using contraception?”</p>
<p>These are excellent questions. The Catholic Church reminds us that we are ALL sinners. Many Catholics have been so poorly served by their parents (who agreed at baptism to be their primary educators in the faith) and religious educators that they haven’t a clue about the Church teachings on most points, especially but not limited to human sexuality. The Church teaching on mortal sin requires that the person be aware that their action is seriously sinful, so the question whether millions of contracepting women (and men) are in a state of mortal sin is an open one. Only God knows the state of their souls. But priests who hear lots of confessions will say that many Catholics – and these are the distinct minority who actually go to confession – are conflicted about their use of contraception. It’s a real issue for many who are struggling to live the faith. It’s not unusual for Catholic couples to start out using contraception and then decide to embrace Church teachings on being open to life, especially if they made efforts to learn these teachings, and to meet other Catholics who are living them.</p>
<p>This thread should have been closed long ago. Frankly I find it rude, hateful, and in very poor taste. I wonder if this thread would have lasted this long if it were about any other religion? Its a shame that so many people have so little understanding.</p>
<p>Momma, I have no doubt that this thread would have lasted this long if it were about many other religions. People are just upset that one religion has this much control over our government. Could you imagine if this were an Islamic group that we were bending the rules for? Can you imagine the outrage?</p>
<p>For clarity, the second to last sentence and last sentence in my above post are talking about america and the american government, not cc.</p>
<p>I personally think that in the vain of political correctness a thread about Islam would not have lasted this long with bashing and disdainful comments. The reason I say with political correctness is that such a thread would be considered hateful post 9/11. The same goes with any religion that has suffered at the hands of others within the last 100 years. It would just be in bad taste to say anything that disparages any aspect of a religious group. Yet, Catholics have permitted their religion to be subject to hatred and this thread is clearly full of it. (Pun intended)</p>
<p>Momma, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ve seen many “bash x religion subtly” threads that weren’t shut down. Again, most of them were in the politics forum.</p>