School requires 2 recommendations from teachers in core academic subjects.
DD is an IB student. There are only 6 subjects total.
She takes Drama at an HL level and, in my opinion, it is very academic in its approach.
Is there an accepted understanding that XYZ subjects are “academic” and others are not?
Yes, there is a definition somewhere. Recommender requirements are defined by the college. Read the admissions website, or ask if it’s not clear. Fine arts classes like theatre usually aren’t counted as core academic classes.
Generally core classes are English, Math, Science, SS and Foreign Language. Drama is generally not considered to be a core class.
I tend to assume English, history/social studies, math, science and foreign language. Other classes are electives, no matter how academic.
California and South Dakota public universities consider visual or performing arts to be core academic courses and require a year long high school course or equivalent for frosh applicants. Some other universities, like Arizona public universities and private University of Southern California, allow art as an option in the required or recommended pattern of high school courses.
Other universities may view art courses differently (though it seems odd that they would not consider them core academic courses when they themselves offer university-level courses and majors in art). Many universities’ admission web sites are silent on the topic of art courses in high school preparation, though there may be an unstated difference between those which list specific other subjects (e.g. English, math, history, science, foreign language) in their recommendations versus those which just say to take the most rigorous courses available to you. If you are not sure, ask the university directly.
For the purpose of recommendations, colleges do not consider drama a core academic subject.
Thanks for those replies! She has written to the school directly but is unsure of getting a response in time.
IB kids don’t really have “electives.” They HAVE to take a course from each subject area - including an area that includes drama/music/art.
Unless she hopes to be a drama major, it’s not it. The issue isn’t her curriculum, but the sorts of strengths and endorsements colleges want to see in applicants.
And if she’s thinking stem in college, it should be a teacher from a rigorous math or science class and then usually one from English or social sciences. Not usually foreign lang.
Some people get recommendations from foreign language teachers. My daughter, who was in IB, got one from her 11th grade Spanish teacher.
However, she was not interested in STEM, and that may make a difference.
It’s a shame that IB fine arts classes are not considered core academic subjects. My daughter’s IB music, like your daughter’s IB drama, was taught in a highly academic way.
Yale says this in its application FAQ:
Yale requires two letters of recommendation from teachers who have taught you in credit-bearing classes during the academic year in core academic subjects (English, Foreign Language, Mathematics, Science, or Social Studies). We recommend, but do not require, that applicants solicit recommendations from 11th and 12th grade teachers, as they are typically able to provide the best insights into your most rigorous academic work. Yale does not require that these recommendations come from teachers of particular academic subjects. Choose teachers who know you well and can give us a sense of your academic and personal strengths.
Groups 6 (the arts) are considered electives . Academic kids mostly elect to swap for a core subject. They do not have to do an art subject.
My older son got a recommendation from a foreign language teacher. (Latin and he’d had her all four years - was in AP at the end.) While I am sure she wrote him a good recommendation, I don’t think she could really talk about how he contributed to class discussions, or what wonderful essays he wrote. So on the whole I wouldn’t recommend it. He hated English classes (did just enough to collect his A’s and he the same for history.) One college asked for a STEM and a non-STEM recommendation which is how he ended up with it.
New York’s Regents diploma requires an art course (can include drama), but that doesn’t make it a core academic course.
I am actually a little surprised that people consider Foreign Language a core academic subject. It sort of depends. If it’s an AP literature class, sure. But if it’s all grammar, vocabulary, and conversation, with a smattering of culture – and that’s what 90%+ of high school foreign language classes seem to be – then I think it would be tough for the teachers to say something valuable.
(And as I was writing that, I remember that one of my recommenders – and maybe the most effective one – was someone who had taught me Spanish, in 9th grade no less. However, it was definitely a literature course, on a par with AP Spanish lit, but not the same curriculum. The teacher was a very experienced teacher with a PhD, and I had skipped two years of Spanish to go into a class with all seniors and high-powered juniors. He showed me the recommendation several years later – it said something like “Well before the end of the year, it was clear that he had absorbed everything I had to teach him, and I was learning as much from him as he from me.” That’s the kind of recommendation that has an impact.)
One issue with FL teachers is they have less experience with writing LoRs. Same pretty much with the arts. Where the stakes are high, you want to choose the teacher wisely.
Interesting discussion. My D15 had her French teacher write her LOR precisely because she was a teacher “who know (her) well and can give us a sense of your academic and personal strengths.” She had the teacher for junior and senior years (although LOR written at the beginning of senior year), taking AP French the last year. She went to a big public HS, and those advanced foreign language classes tend to be smaller than many of the larger core classes. It worked out very well for my D.
In the year when my daughter needed recommendations, her Spanish teacher wrote about 10 of them. The very popular guy who taught 11th grade IB history wrote about 120. Sure, the history teacher had more experience writing recommendations. But I suspect that the Spanish teacher was able to give each of the ones she wrote more time and attention.
Both of my kids had music teachers write one of their recommendations.
In kid 1’s case, he was applying as a music performance major…so it was fine.
Kid 2 asked each college (she only applied to 5) if an additional recommendation from her music director would be OK…and each school said YES.
You have to be careful asking a FL teacher who comes from another culture. Sometimes they are quite literal, and describe your kid’s strengths and weaknesses. That is not common in US college recommendations and can work against your kid in admissions.
@thumper1 I would think that the music teacher’s recommendation for Kid 2 would go into the “supplemental recommendation” category rather than a core academic subject category. Many colleges do accept a supplemental recommendation from a person who can give insight into the applicant from a non-academic perspective.
@happy1 yes…that’s what I said…an additional recommendation. Kid 2 still had two academic references…one English and one science.
Kid 1,the musician, had his HS AP English teacher, and two musicians…his HS teacher, and his private instrument teacher. But his was a different type of application process altogether…with auditions, etc.