If you go to law school, then where you went to college will pretty much not matter. And which law schools will accept you, and then how you do in law school, will not be a function of which of these two colleges you choose.
So to be blunt, I don’t think there is any good way to rationalize paying a lot more for Cornell for undergrad in this case. If you could comfortably afford it, without any excess debt, then it would just be a matter of preference. But it seems you can’t comfortably afford it, and again I do not think there is a case to be made it will somehow pay off later.
Good question. Receipt others but these are what he narrowed it down to. Why do you ask do you not like the two choices or they’re like apples and oranges?
I ask because one school seems to be costly for your family, and one school your student doesn’t like. So…I wondered if there were other options that were a better compromise.
I will say…we agreed with our kids on their college application lists before they were sent, and this included knowing the costs and being willing to pay them. We then let our kids choose amongst their acceptances.
If you did this…perhaps let your son choose. If your finances have changed, or you set a price point that Cornell doesn’t meet…then you have a different sort of discussion to have today.
It sounds like Cornell is his top choice, but that there will be some financial stretching to make that happen. Which is fine, if your family chooses to do so. And families do make that choice.
Good luck to him…regardless of his college choice.
I should add, I do like Ithaca NY, and I do like Cornell. I actually like them better than University of Richmond. But my opinion has to do with the vibe we all felt when we visited Richmond.
Look into PPEL +Global Studies at Richmond, would he be interested?
Cornell is a very strong university overall and AFAIK they do favor their graduates for their own law school (do check matriculation numbers for the latest though).
Would he be taking the federal loans? Private loans?
If you’re talking about the federal loans (5.5k for freshman year, 27k total which become 31k with interest), that amount is manageable - he can pay it back over 10 years on an average college grad salary. It could delay Law School but most law admits have 2-5 years working on their resume anyway. So if you’re only talking about federal loans and it’s doable for you out of pocket (from savings&income) then Cornell is a good choice.
If you’re talking about parental loans you’d co sign, then no it’s not worth it. uRichmond has excellent programs in his area of interest and a good location for it, it’s well-funded and solid in every way.
The “old money” reference is from when Richmond was largely a regional school and drew its student body heavily from Virginia.
My point was that now that Virginia students are a minority, now that the school draws a national student enrollment, and now that the majority of their students come from the Northeast, the “old money” description no longer applies.
That’s right. College networks matter most if you are trying to get a job straight out of college, and even then I do not think Ivy League networks are necessarily better. Sure a lot of alums are in good positions, but there are also lots of other impressive graduates looking for jobs. So I often think you may actually be better off from schools where there may be fewer fellow graduates trying to use the same network opportunities.
Then if you go to law school, all that pretty much doesn’t matter anyway. Where you go to law school might, although that depends on where and what you want to practice. But where you went to college is typically not an important factor for legal careers.
Maybe going against the grain here, but there are few things I would rather stretch my finances for than an Ivy League education for my child. My brother is Cornell faculty so obviously I’m biased I think the difference between Cornell and Richmond is at least 35k/year. Law school may or may not happen (just as people on these boards often say about med school), and there are many ways to pay for law school so I don’t know if I’d use that as a factor. He loves Cornell, you can afford it (even if it’s tough), I would do it if I were you.
Ahhh so you and i are on same page. When did you visit Richmond and what was the vibe you got? Also do you agree that a Cornell network is not worth the same as a Harvard or Stanford so don’t even bother? I would love your impressions. And yes your question is valid but seems son is focused on rankings at this point. I loved American and he didn’t …
When I visited Richmond with my S24, it had by far the strongest pre-professional vibe of any of our visits.
But I do think that is actually contributing to its growing prominence. It has a lot of institutional wealth, and these days lots of people are thinking of college in terms of “return on investment”, and I think Richmond is really using its wealth to leverage up that expected return, including sometimes with cost reduction.
So it can be an excellent value proposition for people looking to go into professional careers. Not necessarily the most romantic college vision, but also not a bad idea either.
I totally appreciate your candid view. It is a definite stretch financially and will have to dip into retirement. yes it is a difference of almost 50K per year at this point. And it is okay to be biased… Our Hope of course is to use as little retirement as possible but who knows. I understood law school does not provide any grants, not like a MPH or MA (and who knows these days).
That is an excellent encapsulation. My son veers more towards the intellectual/international studies side versus business although he is willing to do business as well for practical purposes. Very analytical and excellent writer (hopefully AI won’t replace that skill). And DS is not pre professional student and wants balance. Hopefully Richmond would have both.
So I went to a more famous college than Cornell, but I would not say Cornell’s network is worth less. I just think this factor means less than many seem to want to believe.
Like I and the vast majority of my college friends are successful professionals, but we work alongside lots of equally successful professionals who went to a wide variety of colleges. Basically, we went on to good professional programs and are good at our jobs, and so our career paths just didn’t depend on going to our famous college.
And I enjoyed my college experience, but at the time it didn’t require crushing debt. And I get very worried when people try to rationalize taking on a ton of debt for a famous college, because I think it is very likely they will not end up in a better career that way. Instead, I think they can likely end up in the same sort of career going to a much less expensive college.
With respect to this, Richmond was included in a 2023 Town & Country article, “The 15 Colleges with the Best Alumni Networks.” For perspective, this is the entire list, which appeared alphabetically and was not ranked:
Bucknell
Claremont McKenna
Dartmouth
Fordham
Hamilton
Ohio State
Penn State
Princeton
Smith College
Texas A&M
U Alabama
Notre Dame Richmond
Villanova
Virginia Tech
Internships and entry level roles in international policy / think tanks etc are often low paid / no pay. Having a buffer to help with a first job after graduating might be helpful.
What happens if he gets a low paid internship but turns it down as he needs to work a higher paid but less relevant job for the money?
My D turned down a much higher ranked school that was on the cusp of affordableness. She would have taken all the fed loans, had to work, and we would have had loans to help cash flow payments. The other school left us with money over. She appreciated having extra money as a buffer, and to help with internship housing (not always provided), work clothes, and some fun things like travel. She got a good job out of the lower ranked school although the experiences were very different.
Had it been an Ivy or similar that might have changed the conversation a bit… maybe.. maybe
I think the difference between Cornell and Richmond is at least 35k/year. Law school may or may not happen (just as people on these boards often say about med school), and there are many ways to pay for law school so I don’t know if I’d use that as a factor. He loves Cornell, you can afford it (even if it’s tough), I would do it if I were you.