Based on CSS, NPC etc. never thought it would be full pay
2 Likes
Masters (“professional” masters meant to improve one’s professional position) are usually unfunded though your employer may pay for it in part if useful/valuable to them.
PHDs (with the Master ‘en route’) are usually funded, though at different levels depending on the university. Usually, they cover tuition and provide a stipend sufficient to cover modest rent/food costs but depends on the COL around the university.
Top GPA+LSAT scores+excellent resume and a good list of Law School applications (ie., not just Harvard&Yale 
, just like for college) should yield scholarships. Otherwise, loans 
Health-related programs (OPT, DO, MD, Vet school..) are costly and without any funding.
Thank you for perspective. This is where we are at. There will be NO buffer at all… and everyone working as much as possible. so it turns out your daughter made correct choice, yes? And exactly concern about low paying jobs in DS field of interest.
1 Like
Did you appeal the financial aid offer from Cornell?
6 Likes
TYSM for this. Yes never know what child will eventually choose but this is super helpful context.
Yes we did and very aggressively and won’t budge.
3 Likes
Curious what you are basing that on? As alumni, we have been very underwhelmed with the communication from the university and my DH has had very bad luck using the network for recruiting new grads (so much so, he stopped participating). (Obviously different major/career than the OP).
Three things stand out for me from this discussion which of course you know we’re also having:
-
Money is fungible and payable/repayable, while maybe this is a “once in a lifetime” dream situation. I don’t entirely buy this POV but it’s something to think about, along with the idea of what money is for in the end, if not a great education.
-
OTOH I don’t buy that it’s “not fair” to reevaluate finances when there are other offers on the table. Cutting the budget to the bone if Cornell is the only option, OK. Cutting it to the bone if there are other “better” choices may be less OK.
-
Our DS thinks that he is more likely to meet “his people” at Cornell, after flip-flopping for many reasons over the past four weeks. At some level, this can be self-fulfilling. But it lends itself to the strength of whatever network we think they’re building.
To answer your question about how we’re leaning, today (and the time draws near) we’re leaning Cornell. A chunk of the thinking is that his older brothers went to P and to M and although the money was different (qualified for need-based aid at P and had employer discount at M), it feels like it would be an “unfair” slap to force a non-C. But I really do think he has to want it and feel not only like this is his actual favorite, but I think kids should also feel grateful and appreciative. It’s compounded by the fact that having a senior in HS at this time of year is not always smooth sailing.
1 Like
I’m so sorry to hear that because mid career starting career they are all part of what people say. It’s so important about the alumni network. Can you elaborate?
1 Like
I will PM you.
Not to criticize Town and Country, which everyone knows to employ top notch statisticians and data analysts, as all “lifestyle for the rich and famous” magazines do…
Many companies and professional organizations do similar surveys periodically (with a bit more heft to the statistical side of the house) and while there is some overlap to this list, the last survey I saw had some interesting findings compared to what this lifestyle magazine found.
The last survey I recall seeing showed West Point at the top. Schools in the top fifteen included Wellesley (no surprise to anybody who has hired W grads… they are fiercely loyal, work hard on behalf of fellow alumnae), SMU, and many of the Big Ten.
I am not suggesting in any way shape or form that this is a helpful way to pick a college! However, I AM suggesting that you are going to get different results on the “is the alumni network helpful” depending on who is doing the asking and exactly what they are asking!
My takeaway is that this is not a helpful criterion. A student graduating from Southern CT State college with a degree in early childhood education is going to find the alumni network incredibly helpful. Many, many Southern grads in leadership positions in early childhood in the state. Poli sci grad from the same institution but interested in the Foreign Service? Not so helpful. Finance grad from Baruch is going to find the network very strong- Art History from Williams exceedingly strong. Other disciplines? Not so much.
So take these surveys with a grain of salt.
You know your own kid. Some kids are going to major in beer pong no matter where they go. Other kids are going to hit the cover off the ball regardless of whether they end up at Choice #1 or Choice #12.
I will say that American seems like a nice compromise if the budget works.
5 Likes
FWIW, my current Cornellian has been able to make some valuable connections with alumni after her summer research opportunities were cut due to funding. But I don’t think that is unique to just Cornell.
My kid does LOVE it there, but it isn’t some magical place without its problems. Her year started with a week long union strike that affected dining halls and custodial services. There have been some protest on campus. And yes, the weather is bad for long stretches of the academic year.
If the price difference would require more than just a little financial belt tightening, you should definitely consider a different option. Good luck with your decision.
7 Likes
I’m sorry I may have missed your first email. So you are also deciding on Cornell versus another school. What is P & M?
Yes I remember the union strike. That was amazing timing for incoming freshman. Thank you for your perspective. I really appreciate it.
I agree American would be the fantastic compromise. The DS has it in his head that is not as highly ranked as Richmond.or cornell
2 Likes
It is hard when the kids fall in love with the unaffordable school, sigh. On the one hand, Cornell has a top ranked law school and several clubs, programs, and internships devoted to law. Cornell undergraduates apparently have an advantage when applying to Cornell law school, with an admit rate of 30%. It has a higher 5 year graduation rate vs Richmond and a stronger national and international profile.
I think the it’s not really a school that is worth it argument is not really fair here. Cornell may not be Stanford, but it is no doubt a strong school. If you look at U.S. News & World Report, QS world rankings, Times Higher Ed, or really any of those kind of ranking lists, Cornell is right up there with the best research universities.
I think the people who are saying it’s not quite in the tippy top tier are thinking about law school acceptance data like this, which is just one data point and from 2018 (p. 116 of the PDF):
I think you can look at the fact that Cornell only had 19 students accepted to Yale Law School that year as hey, that’s not really much better than Dartmouth (21) or Georgetown (13) when you control for size and it’s worse than Princeton (31), Columbia (34), Harvard (59). Or you can look at that same data and say gee, it looks like if your goal is to get into an Ivy League law school it sure seems like going to any Ivy for undergrad gives you a big leg up. Or, conversely, you could say hmm, looks like LACs do quite well in general in preparing their students for law school. Look at all the schools with student populations under 5000, like Richmond, on this list.
In any case $140,000-$200,000 extra is a lot.
I think pretty much every student who gets accepted to any top ranked school like Cornell turned down a cheaper option elsewhere. So you’d be in good company if you decided to bite the bullet 
. I mean, some people think of this purely as a kind of ROI decision ( if the kid goes into corporate law then the investment is worth it) while others think of it in terms of happiness ( my job as a parent is to help the kid thrive, as best as I can, so if I have to delay my retirement to take on this cost so be it). I think there is also a stark difference between attending a LAC with 4000 students and a research university with 26,000 students. Each is good in their own way; it’s partly just a matter of which one is the kind of place that would be best for him
But whether or not you should go for it financially I think really depends on what kind of impact the additional cost would have on your life and on his as well as your appetite for risk and that is something really only you can determine.
In our case, we basically told our child that we could finance undergraduate tuition and room and board, but anything on top of that and beyond the age of 22 would be on them. So if you decide to go to law school, then that is your $300,000 debt. That is nice that some people you know are doing study abroad in Europe next summer, but if you want to do that then you will have to come up with those funds, sorry. It’s on you to figure out how to earn enough during your summers or during the term to cover your own books, clothes, spending $, etc. Every family approaches this decision differently so I don’t think there is necessarily an obvious right or wrong path here.
Good luck with this decision; it’s not an easy one but it sounds like your son will thrive no matter where he ends up!
2 Likes
Sorry - yes. Cornell vs. UMD College Park. P is Princeton and M is MIT, but my current child did not apply to either. Are there sibling concerns in your case?
Based on recent Cornell alums info…people we know who found the alumni network helpful.
1 Like
While the difference in cost is large, this is a personal decision, up to the OP to decide how to spend their money. If the extra cost is not going to make a dent in their finances, lifestyle or retirement plans, and it is a gift they want to give to their child, that is their choice. It is a big, very generous gift, but it is their call if they feel it is “worth it”. It shouldn’t, IMO, be a matter of whether it is “worth it”. That is an individual, personal choice.
4 Likes
As a fellow stressed out dad, I understand that you are analyzing this from an “ROI” perspective. However, Cornell is an amazing institution, your son wants to go there, and you can afford it. I think the extra 35K per year would be well worth it in this instance.
4 Likes