Did you and he talk about college costs before applications? If so, what was the understanding?
This distorted idea about ranking is maddening to me - I know it’s not your fault nor your son’s but the rankings that matter are NOT USNWR.
In the latest rankings that are generally used in that field, for IR, American is just below Yale and above Dartmouth.
American is top 10 both for academics and policy.
Cornell, to be fair, is top 25, but yes American is clearly above Cornell for IR and anyone in that field knows it.
Also, American has a business school. It’s AACSB accredited (highest accreditation) and it’s easy to double major or minor SIS-Business, etc.
This is incorrect.
OP: Based on what you have shared in this thread, Cornell University is not an affordable option.
Thank you for this info. For someone who thought they were fairly intelligent, I am clearly an idiot not doing a deeper dive into American. All I kept telling DS was that the honors program at American is very competitive and will provide a cohort of similarly motivated students etc. The info you gave. me is for undergrad yes? Wow.
Yes I did not guide well. American is merit so will stay around 60K but Cornell and Richmond will be going up in cost.
Yes. For undergrad.
Honors is very competitive but most students admitted to IR/SIS have qualifications for the Honors program.
Don’t feel bad though, USNWR has taken such an outsized influence that it’s easy to forget they’re not all-knowing. USNWR has subsisted solely off their rankings, which came to them as a fluke in the 80s. They have a method+criteria, which they change often so the rankings move a little and using an old copy isn’t enough, and if you look at general groupings of 25 or so it’s not totally off the mark, but for some specific programs the general ranking is completely off - such as for American, which is elite for IR but middle of the pack for CS, business, etc. Except of course, how were you to know?
Many kids who study IR and related do NOT go to law school- so I wouldn’t be getting in front of my skis here. There are SO many interesting careers related to IR/Poli Sci that don’t require law school. So while I agree that being aware of the potential debt issues down the road is important, the family’s focus right now IMHO is getting a solid undergrad education with everything else a “fit”- campus life, finances, location, etc.
Cannot imagine a better place to study IR than Washington DC except for possibly Brussels or the Hague. So there’s that.
If the family has determined that Cornell is unaffordable, not sure why it’s still on the table though. I know kids every year who trudge off to college in August like it’s four years in the Federal Penitentiary instead of going to a fantastic U which other kids drool over. Why? Because they can’t let go of “The One”. The sooner your son transitions to loving one of his affordable options, the sooner you’re all going to feel better about this decision!
Thank you. It would be federal loans and some private equaling 40K total. Question: We do not have subsidized loans so isn’t the amount of interest much more than 6K
I feel like this discussion is so very late - and I really hope future families look at this as a cautionary tale. My daughter turned down a Richmond Scholar Invite which is full COA and guaranteed 1/3 tuition to accept a full pay university. She turned down several very good universities where I’m sure she would have had good experiences for much less than we paid. But we as a family made the decision in October of senior year on what schools we were comfortable with her applying to and being comfortable that when acceptances came, she would have the option to choose at that point. Absolutely no one can answer if the extra cost of Cornell is “worth it” as that is a FAMILY specific question. Our children had the gift of picking universities based on fit - they know that was a gift and many, many students don’t have that option. But I think a very clear understanding of finances is critical EARLY so that April, which is stressful enough, doesn’t turn even more stress and conflict and precludes the ability to really get excited about the next stage.
Probably a bit more, but as long as he sticks to the 5.5k federal loans he should be okay. The lower the debt, the better.
Also, if he wants any OR career, he should include foreign language study and study abroad (if only to see what the US looks like from another vantage point, how people navigate diplomacy, how he manages to navigate life in an unfamiliar culture/environment…)
IR is often low paying after college BUT American means he’ll have a great resume (one day a week is dedicated to weekly externships = easy resume builder) and being in Honors means all sorts of opportunities will be directed his way, although of course he’ll have to be ready to seize them. So he’d have a better shot than many at securing something interesting and paid.
I hope he reconsiders his off hand rejection of American and at least understands it’s definitely more than “good enough” .
Aren’t the federal loans 6%? And how does American undergrad honors compare to georgetown? Will they be equally respected? Darn Gotta see if I can switch this up
[quote=“DSW1, post:91, topic:3688815”]
does American undergrad honors compare to georgetown? Will they be equally respected?
No.
You are absolutely right. And your family guided your daughter very well. Wish my DS got Richmond Scholar offer but American is great too (not in his eyes). May I ask where your daughter chose and she is lucky to have such planful and wise parents.
Don’t beat yourself up. This research is something the student should do, IMO.
As for loans, agree again with your offers you have better options. If you need to consider loans above the federal student owns, your kiddo will need a few years of a credit history or you will need to cosign. In your case, it seems ill advised.
How did you calculate a difference of “$200K”? Isn’t it a $140K difference?
I don’t want to dig too deeply into your finances—this isn’t what you asked and I wouldn’t expect you to overshare details.
But I do wonder about the FA appeal and the discrepancy between your NPC results and what resources Cornell sees.
Is there a lot of home equity, a second home, perhaps a business involved? Is it possible the picture would change in future years, making FA a real possibility?
If so perhaps there are avenues for both reducing and funding that gap.
I looked at page 116 of that Yale Law School document you posted showing where their students went to college: 90 from Yale, 59 from Harvard, 31 from Princeton, 22 from Stanford… those are crazy high numbers. That’s like a third of the school (around 600 total) comes from only 4 schools. And Notre Dame (a great college) only sent 4, so only 1 per year. i wonder if things have changed much since 2018.
More generally to OP, I would say that if your child decides to go to grad school or professional school, it is mainly the LAST place they went that people will remember.
American is ranked in top 10 for undergrad IR in US by Foreign Policy magazine.
I agree with others, American is top 10ish for IR, and even that doesn’t fully capture the benefits of studying IR in what is arguably the IR capital of the world (or close to it).
And you could always look at a fancy university for grad or professional school, but I also agree you might not need it, or at least it might be down the road, if you get started somewhere cool after college.
Which leads me to the last thing I want to agree with/emphasize, namely how valuable it is to be able to take a starting position that would really advance your career prospects even if it doesn’t pay that much (as they often do not in a field like IR). Excess debt that needs to be serviced could really be harmful at such a moment.
So I would personally advise anyone interested in IR as an actual potential career to VERY strongly consider American, if it is comfortably affordable.
My daughter ended up at Duke. Every family’s different and I have zero judgement on how families choose to navigate this extremely expensive process - I just encourage people to really think about it earlier rather than later as it just gets harder when they fall in love with a school.
No, not Georgetown. Not off the bat.
Has your son been admitted to Georgetown?
It doesn’t mean that when 2 students remain in a competition, the Georgetown one will be picked systematically though. That’s where Honors comes in: not the name of it, but the opportunities it affords - meeting with important people, first dibs on an internship, special class with embedded study abroad, etc, building your resume. Of course you have to actually be willing to take advantage of the opportunities they offer but students are generally chosen for the program because they have shown throughout HS that they are exactly the type of person who wobt let opportunities go to waste.
So if a student from American has a great resume and a student from Georgetown doesn’t (and it is more common than you’d think because clubs are competitive, even though it’s become enough of a problem they’re working on decreasing it)… The American student would be chosen.
In any case, they’d have a basic advantage over 2,470 universities in the country, would be on equal footing (all things being equal) with 20, and would need to be better than usual candidates for about 5 to 10.
Would they have an advantage over a Cornell student? Absolutely - just from having SO MANY opportunities right there. The Wednesday externships in DC, alone, can be a gamechanger compared to students who have one semester in DC (and these have an advantage over those who don’t do a semester in DC). In IR, you get to have the equivalent of several “semesters in DC” plus the very important international experience.