Cornell [$96k] vs Richmond [$61k] for IR (vs American [60k]?)

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103

Yes, that is one scary list there. Especially when you add the next few schools down the list Columbia (34) Dartmouth ( 21); Cornell (19) U Chicago (18) Penn (16) and then it’s like oh, 50% of the school is from this tiny handful of Ivies + Stanford and Chicago.

I think there is a reason why they don’t publish the numerical list anymore and they just have this cheery list of schools that makes it look like gosh, we admit students from everywhere. But really, your chances are so much higher if you go to one of the special 10 : (

Anyhow, don’t feel bad OP-- this process is so awful and the schools are so confusing and while we all read about the cases where kids get full rides to great schools or giant packages from wealthy schools, it does not always work out that way, unfortunately.

Can you buy yourself some time by just putting down deposits at whatever schools are in the running? Is Case still an option? That way you could sit down with a financial adviser, figure out if there is some way to make your aid profile more desirable , do the math on the loan payments and all of that, and then make a non hurried decision including discussion with the kids about finances, summer jobs, etc . You will lose the deposits at the other schools, but maybe that $300 or $500 is worth it just to feel like you can really figure it all out from all the angles. It seems like part of you still wants to keep Cornell in the running if it is possible, and the financial planner could take a look at your assets to see if there is some room there for years 2-4. Because otherwise two kids at the same time, yikes.

Good luck with all of this-- it is not easy managing this side of the ledger and dealing with the teenagers and their hopes and dreams at the same time----

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Agree.

However, there are plenty of master’s degree programs available.

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Do not double-deposit!

Get an extension from Cornell if you need to (and they will likely grant it, especially if you tell them it’s so you can do another once-over on your financial picture). But don’t think that spreading money around to kick the can down the road will help you. It won’t, and some of the fine print on your acceptances may specifically tell you that double-depositing could cause you to lose your place in the class AND the deposit.

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106

No! This is not an acceptable solution.

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107

Ok! Did not know that! :grimacing: my bad–

In that case, it looks like decision time is around the corner…

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108

OP: Often think tanks are funded by those with a strong political ideology. Many are not really seeking/hiring open-minded thinkers. Important to be aware of this when targeting potential positions with think tanks.

American University appears on this list:

Nevertheless, American University’s Washington College of Law does have a Federalist Society if he prefers to target conservative think tanks.

As a member of the Honors College, research done with a professor could open doors, but many prefer to match their political ideology with the research project/publication.

Very important to understand this at the outset if interested in Wash DC area (DMV) political think tanks.

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She made the correct choice for her, and her personality, and also that the school she chose was also very different to the other one - which also factored in. She wasn’t up for the financial stretch… but some kids might decide they are ok with it, and are willing to take the risk for a school they really, really want. As long as he understands the trade offs, I would let him choose.

Unless you are really very stressed about the finances from your perspective and therefore it’s unaffordable.

110

Responding to your other thread here, as they have been merged:

We have 2 college seniors - 1 is at in Ivy (not Cornell) and 1 is at a mid-range LAC - both similar price points. We are full pay, so our situation is different - but you asked it was worth it to get attend an Ivy.

Here are our thoughts - please take it in the spirit in which it is intended:

Kid #1 at an Ivy, it was Ivy or bust for this kid and they figured out pretty quickly that Ivy didn’t mean perfect. The highlight is the amazing professors and course catalog. Super happy with their education and has amazing friends. Some super bright students and others are the same ones we all hear about that don’t jump in on group projects and not overly engaged. Overall, the child has learned that a name is just a name on the sweatshirt - and they could have thrived at many other places too.

Age 18-22 is a big learning curve and more critical thinking skills have developed to look back and see how it all would have worked out at another school too. They admitted they would have never wanted to go into debt to attend this school in hindsight after 4 years there vs they would have sold a kidney to attend if we had put up a financial barrier. Graduating without debt is a big gift and they seem to realize it after the fact when it is time to enter the work force, rent and furnish an apartment and socialize with friends - as debt is a very distant problem when you are 18.

Kid 2 at a LAC - also the same experiences as above minus a smaller course catalog and wishes the school was just a tiny bit larger to expand the offerings. Much tighter student community and very engaged and visible administration. Students all know the President and their spouse, former students flock to reunions and equally bright and engaged students. We happily pay for this school and don’t view it as a lessor at all.

The parent Facebook pages for both schools look almost the same - complaints about high cost, hard to register for desired classes, raw chicken, crappy housing. The biggest difference is much more parent helicoptering on the Ivy page or at least imo.

Both kids have taken full advantage of the career centers (the most important thing for us when agreeing to pay full costs including mandating they attend X # of events freshman year and onward) and have obtained very competitive internships. Did the Ivy school name help - I don’t think a lot vs strong grades, clear direction (both did projects from professors), past work experience, a lot of networking and our own professional connections are what opened the door for both kids. Are “people” more impressed when they hear where one of our kids attends - yes, but we see zero difference in what our kids are getting out of their colleges.

You said you are stressed about finances and that is a hard place to be before even starting. Does this mean when you child gets an internship you will not be able to help fund their summer housing/expenses, what about the extra costs of studying abroad, could you afford to visit, what about a medical/dental emergency are the funds not there because your child is at Cornell.

It sounds like you know that Cornell won’t work and you are the one that has to carry the financial stress - how will you feel every time you child hits a bump in the road at Cornell and you are stressed about the costs. Yes, we put off “nice to have not need” things to send them to these schools, but the decision did not stress us and impact our long term goals.

You are in a very difficult position with Cornell still being on the table vs being eliminated when the costs came in too high. Hang in there!

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111

DC is a lot bigger and more complex than think tanks.

Every state has an office in DC to track legislation, build coalitions, inform lawmakers about the Governor’s position on whatever issue is relevant. Every large company in the US which does business with the government or in some way has federal issues (potential anti-trust, patent, environmental) maintains a large and robust Government Affairs function in DC staffed by people who understand legislation, the inner workings of government decision-making, etc. Thousands of lobbyists. Hundreds of pollsters. Thousands of representatives of non-profit associations ranging from hospitals to pharma to transportation to whatever, who are not there to lobby but to meet and understand what’s going on.

An 18 year old kid cannot possibly plan a career around think tanks. They are a tiny slice of DC employment- and I’m not even including the actual federal headcount at the agencies, committees on the Hill, etc.

And there are plenty of conservative leaning American grads working in think tanks today- I know several. They may not be ideologically compatible on every single issue- but they can still manage to show up for work every day. Just like most adults.

Do I love every single position my company takes on every single issue? Who does? And I’ll ask again- how is this at all helpful to the OP?

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112

Sure. However, I was specifically referring to “think-tanks”.

Many college students are referred to think-tanks by a college professor with whom they work.

You keep asking: “How does this help OP ?”

I hope OP and her son care about internships & employment.

See the second link provided by myos above referencing 2 main types of placements: policymakers & think-tanks. The OP was very excited by the links that myos1634 provided.

113

Agree.

114

Would the two posters debating think tanks and the importance of political ideology please move on or take it to PM? Unless the OP asks for more information, future posts will be considered off-topic and deleted without warning. Thank you for your understanding.

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115

So I take it that your appeal for more aid was denied by Cornell. Is that correct. Since January, when your financial aid back and forth started with Cornell, did you discuss what would happen if no additional aid was awarded with your student?

This was an ED acceptance with multiple extensions already for an enrollment deposit. Right?

I think your student needs to make a sound decision by today.

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116

Just so I am clear, your son was accepted to Cornell ED in mid December with an FA package.

2 weeks later that FA package was mysteriously reduced.

2 weeks ago in mid April you were discussing on CC how to appeal and what to do. The consensus was act quickly.

Tomorrow is the first of May and you still haven’t made a decision and been forthright with Cornell regarding your willingness (you have said you can afford it but it’s a reach) or refusal to live up to the contract you committed to.

Please correct me if I missing something?

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117

Your questions are valid. we committed upon receiving the ED acceptance and financial aid package with all documentation submitted. a few weeks later they changed the FA package and took away aid and consequently we had to appeal and literally took until yesterday to receive final FA package. So no contract broken

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118

Hi:
We have complicated businesses with big losses and they initially gave us FA and then just finalized yesterday that we don’t get any…

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But Cornell is financially manageable as you describe, otherwise why have this thread. If so your ED commitment is binding. That is the point of ED, it is not a free option.

If however, you simply can’t afford it I would be entirely sympathetic. Instead you seem to be seeking reasons to say no vs a financial imperative.

I know you don’t see it this way but there is some other kid out there likely impacted by your actions.

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120

It sounds like Cornell at 50k was affordable and at 96k, isn’t.
And if your retirement and business are on the line, with the current (/&future) economic downturn, I wouldn’t take such a risk.
I understand your son’s attachment to Cornell and how difficult it must be for him. Did Cornell at least give you a grace period beyond May1?
Or are you confident the business issue is a one-time problem and you’ll be back to what your income used to be before the business issue hit your finances?

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121

Got it. Sorry to hear that. Hopefully they gave you enough info about their decision that you can make an educated guess about likelihood of future aid based on 2024 tax returns. Possibly you could make a guess beyond that as well.

On the academics, I had a different reaction than some. It’s rare for an 18yo to know what IR is at the university level let alone postgrad. To me, that’s a student who really could end up in any social science or humanities major. Econ, public policy, etc. And that could lead to a variety of careers, including consulting.

So I don’t know how valuable it is to zero in on rankings and such for American IR or even polsci/govt. I’d think more about strength in a breadth of disciplines. Cornell probably has an advantage there.

As far as career possibilities if you aren’t sure of major, well, Cornell probably has the advantage there too. It’s hard to make the case that an Econ (or even sociology) to consulting or business or public sector path is more likely at Richmond or American than at Cornell, for example.

Most important though is where the student feels they fit. Part of the (potential) advantage of a place like Cornell is that you form relationships with people who share some professional interests, and that helps with knowing how to find internships and jobs. It isn’t just the ability to reach out to old-timers. Also, being happy helps with all this. This can happen at all sorts of schools but it doesn’t sound like any of Richmond clicks with your son.

Of course none of that matters if the money doesn’t work.

A couple minor financial thoughts:

Check if your health insurance will work with either school; this can add a few thousand $ in cost if you’re required to purchase school insurance.

I see $2200 of the COA at Cornell is personal expenses. Seems high to me but that’s just me. Just keep in mind that’s not money they’re billing you.

If the Cornell money would reduce retirement savings, but your nest egg is still pretty robust, it seems reasonable to me to give your son the choice of some sort of long term personal loan agreement, such that you’d recoup principal and earnings down the road.

Good luck!

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