Cornell must STOP being an ivy

<p>Cornell loses more from its association with the Ivy League than it benefits. Stumbling upon the thread below titled "Cornell=worst ivy?" got me thinking about this. Sure Cornell has the lowest average SAT scores and highschool GPAs and highest admission rate. But when you take Cornell out of its ivy context and it becomes a terrific school minus the stigma of being the "worst" in an arbitrary grouping (i.e., Ivy League).</p>

<p>Cornell is everything that other ivies are not. I grant that number-wise, Cornell's average standardized test scores are the lowest. But it is also the largest ivy by far by undergraduate enrollment. Therefore it offers diversity in student body and activities as well as diversity in learning. You will see at Cornell classes and majors that you will never even get close to seeing in other ivies, such as Fiber Science Design and Agricultural Sciences. </p>

<p>Unlike other ivies, Cornell combines both the public and private elements as a land-grant university. Its specialty statutory schools like ILR and Veterinary Medicine are regarded as the best in the nation, if not in the world. Its quasi-public status helps it to achieve its motto "Any person... any study," when other ivies remain myopic with regard to academic outreach and diversification.</p>

<p>To be sure, Cornell's history is couple hundred years behind other 'ancient' ivies. But the school's youth has made it a forerunner of the higher education. Cornell was the first ivy to put both genders in a classroom. It has been dubbed as the first "modern" university in America. Its medical school was the first in the nation to branch out internationally, and it now has a campus in Qatar.</p>

<p>Other ivies, being conservative, focus heavily on humanities and liberal arts. But Cornell has placed emphasis on natural science and engineering (of course, in addition to aforementioned specialty programs). Cornell's applied science programs are nationally and internationally acclaimed and has no contestants among other ivies. Nor does this mean that this effort on science and engineering has deterred the school from excelling in traditional humanities disciplines. Cornell has been the home of many renowned writers, lawyers, literary critics, philosophers, classicists, and historians.</p>

<p>Try putting Cornell out of the ivy context. Because of its association with the public's rigid and highly stereotypical of the Ivy League, it sometimes gets denounced as being the "worst" ivy. In truth, Cornell is not the worst ivy, but rather it is the most un-ivy-like ivy. Cornell's low admission statistics come from its specialty schools, many of which are number one in the nation and have non-traditional criteria for admitting students. Even then, Cornell's numbers seldom fail to surpass those of its non-ivy peers, such as JHU, Chicago, NU, and Georgetown.</p>

<p>Dissociate Cornell from the Ivy League. It will be regarded as the "best" in its own right, not the "worst" of its kind.</p>

<p>i second that motion</p>

<p>I actually have to agree with that, nobody should be looking at Cornell and think "worst Ivy." Plus, if Cornell wasn't in the Ivy Agreement then maybe its football team may be recognized on the level of its hockey or lacrosse teams. I know that's not important, but it would be cool to see.</p>

<p>I think that if people are worried that Cornell is deemed by some to be the "worst" ivy, then they should attend school elsewhere. This type of inquiry is often a high school pastime. Once at Cornell (or at any of the other schools considered by many others to be the "worst" ivy) this ranking game becomes unimportant (except perhaps for those who linger on CC).</p>

<p>I personally don't think this even matters. Let them say what they wanna say, bottom line is: Cornell is an ivy. People can say "ooh.. worst ivy.." but hey, it's STILL an IVY. If you take the IVY part out of Cornell, then it might even fall farther. </p>

<p>In terms of rankings, Cornell is more or less the same level as Washington U in St. Louis and Chicago U. Yet, how much fame do these school get in the US.. let alone the WORLD. Yea, sure, they are stellar schools too. But are they ivies? No. Do they wish they were? I bet you anything they do (even if they don't say it -_-).</p>

<p>All in all, the word "IVY" is a category. No one cares how good that school really is, but if it belongs in the IVY group, then it MUST be excellent. Groups are in general a lot easier to be famous and prestigious, esp when they are included in a group with the HYP. Yea, sure, HYP gets more fame. The real question is.. Who Cares?</p>

<p>When people say "worst ivy".. they are just comparing it to HYP and the admission rate. It's rather a compliment if you treat it like one. So what if Cornell is the worst "ivy"... how many schools would work and work and work to earn this spot? </p>

<p>It's like a celebrity. If you're famous, then you would be criticized no matter what. It's impossible to please the entire world, so just ignore the insults and to hell with the comparisons. We all know that Cornell is excellent beyond words, and that's that.</p>

<p>Well...if you let the "worst ivy" thing get to you then possibly there is some merit to your argument. but, and this is what it really boils down to, your future employers/grad schools don't look it Cornell that way. who cares what others say. and, if this is still not enough, i'd rather be the "worst" of the best (which Cornell is not!), than the best of the rest.</p>

<p>I think some people forget that the ivy league is just an athletic conference like big10, pac10, etc....</p>

<p>uhhh... lol.</p>

<p>just be proud to go to cornell. so what if people call it the "worst" ivy, it may not bet the greatest but it sure is something amazing.</p>

<p>"Worst Ivy" is kind of tongue in cheek I think...its like saying "oh, I got the worst Rolls Royce".</p>

<p>
[quote]
In terms of rankings, Cornell is more or less the same level as Washington U in St. Louis and Chicago U. Yet, how much fame do these school get in the US.. let alone the WORLD. Yea, sure, they are stellar schools too. But are they ivies? No. Do they wish they were? I bet you anything they do (even if they don't say it -_-).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Trust me, we care about being Ivies just as much as Stanford or MIT or Caltech care about being Ivies. Your reasoning is flawed. I agree with the OP that Cornell would be looked upon as a better school among the academic crowd if it would stop being an Ivy.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Even then, Cornell's numbers seldom fail to surpass those of its non-ivy peers, such as JHU, Chicago, NU, and Georgetown.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>However, this isn't a true statement. If you want to make Cornell have a better ring to it, stop comparing it to other schools at all, especially number-wise.</p>

<p>what i meant was, it started out as an athletic conference, and the 8 schools happened to be amazing in academics. I can see what OP is trying to say here though, but how can you "dissociate Cornell from the Ivy League", if that's just what it is?</p>

<p>Cornell has a higher Peer Assessment rank than several of the ivies. Look at Penn, Brown, Dartmouth. It ties with Columbia. Saying that Cornell is the worst Ivy is, therefore, unfounded.</p>

<p>Perhaps the more accurate statement would be that it might be easier to get into, although one never knows. I know someone who got into Yale EA, and was denied Cornell.</p>

<p>omg, here we go again...first of all, not everyone agrees that Cornell is the worst ivy. We all know that HYP + Columbia + Penn(Wharton) are better than Cornell. But, whether or not Brown or Dartmouth are better than Cornell is highly debatable. Internationally, Cornell has more prestige than both Brown and Dartmouth combined. Domestically, I think that it depends on the region. And to be honest, most people in the world don't give a jack about whether or not Cornell is "worse" or "better" than its peer institutions like Brown or Dartmouth. If we are talking about the difference between Cornell and Stanford, it becomes legit comparison bc Stanford is clearly better.</p>

<p>i think students are just bitter that they didnt get into HARVARD...</p>

<p>a 3.5 at CORNELL is much better than a 3.5 at HARVARD...imho...</p>

<p>HARVARD networking is much better than CORNELL networking...imho...
HARVARD name recognition is much better than CORNELL name recognition...imho...</p>

<p>just poking fun at my friend fd36 in case you were taking me seriously -_-</p>

<p>"what i meant was, it started out as an athletic conference, and the 8 schools happened to be amazing in academics. I can see what OP is trying to say here though, but how can you "dissociate Cornell from the Ivy League", if that's just what it is?"</p>

<p>I was being figurative there. Obviously we cannot pull out from the athletic conference that is decades-old. But around the campus I see bits and pieces of evidence that Cornellians tend to identify themselves more with (or perhaps prize themselves of being in) the Ivy League much more so than, for example, University of Wisconsin is in the Big Ten. They don't have a dining facility called the "Big Ten Room" nor do they reaffirm their "Big Ten" status in nearly every article that shows up in the school newpaper. (Trust me. Pick up a Cornell Daily Sun or Cornell Chronicles and you would be hard-pressed to find a school-related article that does not make explicit links to its ivy status.)</p>

<p>I believe that this process of "dissociation" must begin in the minds of the Cornell students. When the student presents his academic background, whether casually or formally, let him or her do it with the understanding that the Ivy League is merely a sports conference and, for all it's worth, Cornell is the most un-ivy-like school in the category. As of now there may be a significant percentage of the student body who would mention Cornell's Ivy League membership when he or she is asked to talk about the alma mater and think that this will help them, while in fact it hurts them.</p>

<p>"omg, here we go again...first of all, not everyone agrees that Cornell is the worst ivy. We all know that HYP + Columbia + Penn(Wharton) are better than Cornell. But, whether or not Brown or Dartmouth are better than Cornell is highly debatable. Internationally, Cornell has more prestige than both Brown and Dartmouth combined. Domestically, I think that it depends on the region. And to be honest, most people in the world don't give a jack about whether or not Cornell is "worse" or "better" than its peer institutions like Brown or Dartmouth. If we are talking about the difference between Cornell and Stanford, it becomes legit comparison bc Stanford is clearly better."</p>

<p>No, you haven't read my OP. Read it again. This time, thoroughly.</p>

<p>"I personally don't think this even matters. Let them say what they wanna say, bottom line is: Cornell is an ivy. People can say "ooh.. worst ivy.." but hey, it's STILL an IVY. If you take the IVY part out of Cornell, then it might even fall farther.</p>

<p>In terms of rankings, Cornell is more or less the same level as Washington U in St. Louis and Chicago U. Yet, how much fame do these school get in the US.. let alone the WORLD. Yea, sure, they are stellar schools too. But are they ivies? No. Do they wish they were? I bet you anything they do (even if they don't say it -_-).</p>

<p>All in all, the word "IVY" is a category. No one cares how good that school really is, but if it belongs in the IVY group, then it MUST be excellent. Groups are in general a lot easier to be famous and prestigious, esp when they are included in a group with the HYP. Yea, sure, HYP gets more fame. The real question is.. Who Cares?</p>

<p>When people say "worst ivy".. they are just comparing it to HYP and the admission rate. It's rather a compliment if you treat it like one. So what if Cornell is the worst "ivy"... how many schools would work and work and work to earn this spot?</p>

<p>It's like a celebrity. If you're famous, then you would be criticized no matter what. It's impossible to please the entire world, so just ignore the insults and to hell with the comparisons. We all know that Cornell is excellent beyond words, and that's that."</p>

<p>Sure, I agree that with the ivy membership comes a certain degree of the prestige. But how about this? I think that once Cornell stops being an ivy, its reputation can be as good as (arguably) Stanford. Try grouping Stanford with Harvard, Princeton and Yale and you will all the sudden get "Stanford, the worst of the HYPS League" (at least, number and ranking-wise, but sadly that's a major source of a university's reputation nowadays.)</p>

<p>Cornell academics, breadth, mission, unique constitution, alumni network, etc are all top notch. There is no reason why the students should identify themselves with the Ivy League, when the school is very much unlike the other ivies. Without that association, the school's reputation can do even better. Much better, imo.</p>

<p>saying cornell is the worst ivy is like saying Bill Gates is the poorest of the 3 richest people (no one cares).</p>