re #39:" Cornell is over-booked for transfers…"
allows to get more closely back on-topic:
If transfer housing is an issue too now, I guess they need to be careful now about issuing those Transfer Options… (as well as #transfers admitted in general)
@Winky1 Be wary of housing expectations for transfer students. Not only are they not placing transfer students all in the same dorm this fall, they apparently do not even have on-campus housing for all of them.
also re:#39: I can’t recall now ever being inside Baker et al, so obviously I can’t speak to their current condition.
But I seem to recall that they had bigger rooms, or at least bigger than the U-Halls that were torn down.
And I think at least one of them was all-female and was purported to be cleaner. Back then anyway.
I can say that if you don’t like paying for those, take a big gulp if your D decides she next wants to live in lower Collegetown. For my D2’s last two years she lived in a house that appeared not to have been renovated since the time I attended. And they were considered to be hovels back then.
But on the other hand, that house constituted a very intimate living environment where everybody got to know everybody else, and they all became friends. Which was also true of the house I lived in there. It became the central focal point of her social life there.
In general I think sharing an apartment in a house near campus is superior to living in any dorm, for upperclassmen who have already lived a year on campus. More physical space, living with people of your own choosing, common areas, kitchen, live like adults: no campus rules or RAs to enforce them, house parties , better social situation. But physical condition is not one of the pluses, in the older houses.
re #41: I agree, that is something any prospective transfer student, TO or not, should explore further and consider,if this situation is going to be an ongoing “:thing”.
It is not desirable, socially, to get to a new school where you know nobody and be shunted off campus from the get-go to fend for yourself. At Cornell or anyplace really.
Though I guess if you were placed in a house near campus with a lot of other new transfer students, that wouldn’t necessarily be bad. But I don’t know if that’s what they are doing.
Regardless of the issues, after visiting many colleges with 2 kids, have not seen better housing than Cornell.
Being off campus of course is a problem for transfer students, but I was in that situation way back, it worked out ok.
It is hard to judge dorms at large schools based on tours, because dorms are variable in condition and some schools only show the best dorms on tours.
On the Niche website students that attend Cornell gave the dorms a “C” rating. That is lower than other NY state universities (SUNY Binghampton and SUNY Genseo recieved a “B”) and other large private universities (Syracuse C+, Northeastern B-, New York University B-, Boston University C+)
Not surprised about Binghamton. NYS has been putting a lot of money into building and renovating dorms there. At least in part connected with their plan to materially increase enrollment .The dorms I saw were reasonably nice. Not any nicer than my D2s Collegetown dorm at Cornell, which clearly was renovated at some point,but not any worse either.
What people were complaining about more at Binghamton were the other buildings: classrooms, etc.
On every campus there are more recently renovated and less recently renovated dorms.
I’m too lazy to look, but one may wonder how carefully that Niche sample of students was taken from each school. Using Cornell for example, If they got disproportionate input from students in the old dorms they would get lots different results than if students in the recently built West Campus dorms were sampled at a higher rate. To get accurate results you need sampling done properly, else its just GIGO. Also there is no unified standard of satisfaction across schools. Cornell students complain about everything. They are big whiners.
( Not saying the results are wrong either, how would I know).
I have visited Bing many times. Wife and brother went there, both kids applied, and attended events on campus.
They indeed have invested in dorms and food, and in fact their food is excellent.
I dont agree with the tours comment. In many cases the dorms I saw were dumps, so if that was their best, sad situation at most schools. There were some schools that went out of their way to mention that “we are showing you the worst case”. The two I recall were Bing and Cornell. The others putting their best foot forward had little to show.
We also ate in each cafeteria. Most were horrible. In fact some really expensive schools had the worst food and mediocre dorms (like GW in DC). Cormfort wise, and food wise, Bing and Cornell are amongst the best out there, I dont care what those Niche surveys say.
And at Cornell, my son stayed in older and modern dorms, on North and West, and both were excellent, other than AC which most colleges dont do well. And he got large rooms on campus despite being a transfer student. But there is a terrible shortage of housing, and the cost/condition off campus reflects the supply/demand situation. Paying much more rent for comparable off camous housing in Ithaca than another upstate town for S2, almost double. They need to limit enrollment growth until this is fixed on and off campus.
My S is about to be a TO soph at Cornell CALS. He actually received 2 TO’s – which were vastly different. For many reasons, I believe Cornell’s is top notch & not unethical to the student nor their 1st year school.
Cornell’s TO: Cornell CALS told him to go wherever he wants (CC, private 4 year, or public 4 year) & as long as he took Calc I, Freshman writing & plus a year of either Chem (w/labs) or Bio (w/labs) & got at least a B in those classes (& an overall 3.0+), he was guaranteed admission. However, he was only allowed to transfer in as his designated major & not permitted to change majors. This leads me to believe that they are actively seeking to gain students in less popular disciplines and/or they don’t want anyone “backdooring” their way into a more popular/impacted major, such as into Dyson. I don’t think it’s unethical to transfer, because students do it all the time for a myriad of reasons: they get better FA/Scholarship offers, don’t like the school, want to be closer to home, etc. The school my son is leaving actually has a high influx of transfers coming into to the school, so his space was grabbed up by someone else – someone who the university doesn’t have to give a large merit scholarship to.
USC’s TO: It was not guaranteed, except if you went to one of their “partner” schools in Rome/London/Paris, you had the best chance of being accepted (wink wink). USC didn’t want him to go anywhere except to one of their “affiliated” universities in Europe (like American Univ of Rome) because they said they didn’t want you to start at another 4 year school & then transfer out, hurting their retention rate. I don’t recall if a CC was ok or not. There was no restriction on staying the same major as the one you applied as (at least in A&S). The biggest problem with USC NOT accepting any credits from another 4 year school is that it basically means only wealthy, non-FA students can accept the transfer, as fed aid doesn’t apply to the foreign programs USC wants you to consider. This is a great deal for USC because you are technically accepted “need blind” but only those who can afford $70k at UA Rome for a year will actually come as transfers.
I was reading about this earlier as well and I think it’s a shady practice. It’s not fair to the student or to the school the student attends for freshman year. One article I read was regarding a student at Wash U who was supposed to transfer out after his freshman year to attend Cornell. Anyway, it sounds unethical and I suspect it has something to do with rankings.
Is it true that Middlebury does this as well?
No, Middlebury College does not offer a transfer option; Middlebury offers mid-year entry. Usually done due to housing issues. Apparently more students study abroad second semester or graduate early opening up dorm rooms.
Long ago, when it was a “guaranteed transfer option” (GTO), the students at my Northeastern US LAC were very open about their plans. All three in my freshman class enrolled in Cornell’s Hotel Management school. Some of the nicest folks I ever met. Gave a very positive impression of Cornell & of my LAC which had no problem whatsoever attracting students whether first years or transfers.
@Steglitz90 i don’t think that is entirely true about USC. I believe many kids go to Santa Monica City College (CC) and live in apartments near USC (with other USC kids), and then can do the guaranteed transfer. I know of a few kids who tried to hang out with the USC kids and frats and do the USC stuff (like football games) and lived in off campus USC apartments to feel like they were at USC. But, they went to SMCC and then transfered. But yes, I know of 3 that went to the American U in Paris and then transfered as well. On that end, I would agree those families were “rich”
In traditional fall start, the fall semester tends to be more heavily enrolled than the spring semester, since a student who graduates one semester early or one semester late will have one extra fall semester compared to the number of spring terms. Having some students start in the spring is an attempt by colleges to balance enrollment. Ranking-conscious colleges may also admit applicants at the lower end of the stat range for the spring to avoid having them count in stats for “first time fall semester frosh” used for ranking purposes.
Presumably, this also means that colleges would prefer if students who study abroad or do co-op or otherwise take time off campus do so in the fall rather than the spring.
@blevine -
With respect to SAT scores everything is relative and it is harder to fill a big school with high scoring students than a smaller school. Cornell’s 25th percentile SAT score ranking is low compared to it’s US News ranking. Around 20 vs. around 15. Northeastern scores higher, but it doesn’t count the scores of International students.
Cornell also recently implemented a delayed admissions program.
https://admit.cornell.edu/first-year-spring-admission
@moneydad - Note that Cornell (Arts and Sciences) recently restructured their admissions office and hired a new Dean of admissions - in an attempt to keep up with the other Ivies. Cornell’s selectivity has increased significatly since then. This could explain why the the college of Arts and Sciences re-instituted the program.
http://as.cornell.edu/news/college-announces-restructuring-admissions-and-advising-office
This was about the same time that Dartmouth, which has the second lowest 25th percentile SAT in the Ivy League, restructured their admissions office. They created a provost-level position and lured away Tufts’ Dean of Admissions. They have also become more selective.
The Ivy League schools are hyper competitive with each other (and other schools) when it comes to managing the perception of selectivity so as not to dilute the Ivy brand.
Here us a list of the various schools that I am aware of that have guaranteed transfer options and/or delayed admissions programs. @ucbalumnus do you know anything about the UCB program (pointed to in the link) it is pretty interesting…
1 year “guaranteed” transfer option
Cornell
BU
Georgia Tech (hooked applicants only)
1 semester delayed admission with partner school
USC
Northeastern
1 year delayed admission
Case Western
1 semester delayed admission
Middlebury
Cornell
1 semester delayed admission but you take classes on campus
UC Berkeley
U Maryland
https://plexuss.com/news/article/spring-admission-explained
https://admissions.berkeley.edu/make-most-january-start describes UCB January start / spring admission. However, the Global Edge and Fall Program for Freshmen fall options for these students have relatively limited course offerings and may not be that suitable for students intending some majors.
One likely reason (for any school that does this) is that starting some students in the spring balances enrollment across the fall and spring semesters, since fall semester would ordinarily be more heavily enrolled because students graduating a semester early or late would have an extra fall semester. But ranking-conscious colleges may also use it to try to game the ranking systems that count only fall frosh in selectivity stats.