Cornell vs Barnard vs Georgetown

College Search & Lists
1

Cornell: Love the campus and atmosphere. I went to the admitted students overnight and had a great time. I think I really vibe with the social scene and I like the size of the university. Coming from a small city, I don’t mind that Ithaca is on the smaller side-- in fact I thought it was a pretty nice collegetown. That being said, while I like the city I absolutely hate the weather. When I went in mid April it was pouring all 3 days… I later learned that it actually snowed a week after I visited! There also seems to be a gray dreariness that looms over Ithaca for a better part of the school year. I’m from the Northeast (Rhode Island) so I don’t mind the cold all that much, it’s just the rain and lack of sun that I really despise.

I was admitted to the Human Ecology school which I was sure of in January but now not so much. I thought I knew what career path I wanted to take but I’ve since changed my mind. If I attend Cornell I plan on taking some courses at the other colleges (COE, Dyson) before I’m sure that I want to go though an internal transfer. From the conversations I’ve had with current students, the process of internal transfer isn’t too difficult. In terms of FA, I got a full ride due to my need.

Barnard: New York city is amazing and I had a ton of fun. I really underestimated the influence of the Barnard/Columbia relationship and just how integrated the schools are until I visited. It honestly didn’t feel like a women’s college at all-- in fact, walking around the buildings, common areas and facilities I would have thought it was coed. The class I shadowed was almost an equal ratio of girls to guys. The Barnard campus is small but I found myself spending an equal amount of time at the Barnard and Columbia campus. My host is very immersed into the Columbia social scene— she is taking most of her classes there, exclusively dines there, uses their libraries, has all her clubs + sorority there, etc. She and others I met at Barnard have noted that a lot (if not most) of their time is spent at Columbia across the street. While it is an advantage, I found that it kind of detracted from “Barnard Experience,” that is the identity of being a Barnard woman living within a defined community. Of course, I’m not speaking on the college as a whole since this was only my experience within a three day span, but it’s just something that came to my attention. When thinking about reasons why I would love to attend Barnard, I’ve found that almost all of the reasons are based on the Barnard/Columbia relationship, so it’s almost as if I’m attending Barnard so I can in a sense “live” the Columbia experience. This is a feeling that doesn’t really sit well with me and I’m not too sure why. FA is the same as Cornell.

Georgetown: I really like DC area both in terms of social and professional opportunities. I went in November and while I absolutely love the campus and the programs, the fit seems very off for me. I attend a private Northeast school so I have a tolerance for preppiness and being surrounded by incredibly wealthy peers (as previously noted I have a low income background). From my experiences during the visit, Georgetown’s level of preppiness and wealth is more excessive from even what I’ve seen. Reflecting on my experiences within my own HS, I would prefer to go to a school with more socioeconomic diversity. Also, the competitiveness and crazy application process of clubs/student organizations is a bit off putting. I do understand that these student organizations have great influence and opportunities. It just seemed that everything had to have a polished resume attached to it. FA is manageable but not full as with the other two schools.

It’s getting down to the wire and I’m really torn. Thanks in advance!

2

Do you have a sense of what you might major in if you opted for Barnard?

I’m asking because my daughter is a Barnard grad and I think that your experiences in terms of how much you feel tied to Barnard (as opposed to Columbia) might be somewhat dependent on major. I know my daughter had about half her classes at Columbia the first two years, but most of her classes were at Barnard for the final years, as she got more involved with her major and in working on her senior thesis. I know she formed very strong relationships with Barnard faculty. So I am just thinking that she came to appreciate the Barnard side of the equation as time progressed.

Keep in mind that each student is different – simply the fact that your host was in a sorority would tend to change her social perspective a lot. For example, my daughter once told me that she preferred studying in the library at Barnard (but that was the old library – your host’s preference for the Columbia library could be tied to the construction of the Milstein Center - which I think will be complete by next fall)

I do think that finances are important - so that would favor the two colleges which were most generous with financial aid.

3

Based on your post in this thread, Barnard/Columbia seems to be the right choice for you.

4

If your biggest concern with Cornell is about weather, the winter is spectacularly beautiful! Not sure if you are into any winter sports but there is a ski club with transportation to near by mountains, ice skating, etc… Not to mention that winter is college hockey season - a huge Cornell tradition where school spirit really comes alive.

You will have to take out of college courses to graduate so will get a good taste if you are in the right college or not. Internal transfers happen all the time. That’s why for most colleges, you don’t declare your major until mid sophomore year. That said, engineering may be a tougher school to transfer into. If that is on your radar, look at their freshman year course requirements and try to overlap as much as possible. I would also suggest talking to your faculty advisor.

  • Cornell alum and totally biased ; )
5

if you are coming from the abbey mb or st g. You will be already familiar with all of these environments. And your description sounds reasonable to me. Based on your personal fit. If you are more comfortable w your bay view St. Andrews prout or Lasalle type experience I think you will Definitely will have more diversity in nyc

My order on environment you desire Not talking about majors school strength etc

Barnard
Cornell
Gtown

6

I would be concerned about recent events at barnard. https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2018/04/11/reject-bds-and-keep-barnard-an-inclusive-environment/

7

Campus based university in a college town vs. city school are very different environments.

My D2 tried one (Barnard) found she didn’t like it and transferred to the other (Cornell). which she did like, quite a bit.

But that was her.

She was not matriculating to a program of studies (Hum Ec) she wasn’t too sure about. While transferring between colleges there is not uncommon it is also not absolutely guaranteed.
Also she did not have any big problem with the weather there. Which is what it is. It’s actually nice in the Fall, Spring and Summer, but it does rain a lot and the winter is long, so you are not wrong. It’s beautiful there though.

I specifically asked about this on the CC Georgetown sub-forum once, and they told me that despite being in the city Georgetown did retain a campus-based feel to it. If that’s really true I might pick Georgetown, in your situation. I love Cornell but I would not undertake a program of studies there that I did not want.

8

Thank you all for your helpful responses!

@calmom I’m not too sure, I’m really undecided right now. Out of curiosity, which majors are more involved with Columbia and which with Barnard?

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@monydad If you don’t mind me asking, what didn’t she like about Barnard? What did she see in Cornell that was missing at Barnard? In terms of weather in Ithaca, I’d hope that it isn’t as bad as I’m lead to believe, especially since I live in an area of similar climate.

10

In general the STEM focused majors for math and physical sciences and some foreign languages might require more coursework at Columbia. A linguistics major would be more tied to Columbia.

Barnard students are allowed to choose majors that are not offered at Barnard, but are available at Columbia… so you can take a look at the websites to see what majors are offered.

The situation works in reverse, too. Some majors open to Columbia students are housed at Barnard. That includes architecture and urban studies.

What was the subject of the class you sat in on? How big of a class (seminar style, classroom, or large lecture)?

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re #8, [only] since you directly asked, I will answer your direct question based on what my daughter told me that she experienced. Recognizing that everyone there may not have experienced the exact same things.

The differences stem mostly from the nature of their settings. With some other unique aspects as well.

In New York City there’s a ton going on in the greater city; it’s a teeny campus; and due to housing costs everyone lives in the dorms. With little common space, RAs at least nominally enforcing college rules, and restricted access due to security concerns.

She reported that on weekends much of her cohort scattered into the city, which sapped the campus of vitality and usually involved spending money. She went out to bars, etc. more than she would have preferred, and when she did, she found everything to be very expensive. Because it is NYC not Ithaca.

She felt the incomplete coeducation due to the dorm situation resulted in a suboptimal social scene. She actually had a boyfriend there, but she has always had a lot of male friends, and she found it harder to develop those same relationships there. Because the most natural place to develop these relationships are in the dorms, which for the most part are Barnard-only. A guy can’t even get into your dorm unless you know him already and put him on the list, so forget parties. Not that there’s room anyway. Versus at Cornell the dorms are fully coed , except for one or two for people that want single sex dorms. Access is not restricted. And of course the rented apartments and houses are for whoever you go in with.

The social scene is quite different at Cornell because most upperclassmen do not live in dorms. Many live in shared private houses and apartments near campus. Social life more revolves around house parties and hanging out at apartments of groups of friends. All outside the purview of RAs or university rules. And free. Of course they also went out there too. When they did she found it to be much cheaper.

She still has some good friends from NYC, but on the whole she felt she was more laid-back than a lot of the students there, who she felt tended to dress fashionably and seemed to have a lot of discretionary spending money. She found a more comfortable cohort at Cornell. Possibly the presence of the contract colleges draws in more middle-class types?

Going out in the city all the time, with her dorm not even on campus,she didn’t feel college felt “special”, She felt almost like another worker in the city.

Finally she felt disrespected by [some] Columbia students, and this she would not tolerate. These were not just her vague “feelings” there were also specific actual incidents that she shared with me.
At Cornell a small degree of hierarchical stratification may also be exhibited by some small number of petty individuals, by the way. I guess it’s just human nature, to an extent. But it is nowhere near the degree that D2 experienced in New York. And anyway she was attending the more selective school there.(unlike you). But it isn’t a big problem there, really.

She liked her classes at Barnard, a good number of her fellow students, and she had great extracurricular and campus jobs there too. Though I think the most lucrative campus jobs are reserved for financial aid recipients, which she was not. If you prefer the city experience and don’t mind possibly putting up with some friction (or maybe not) it is by no means a bad choice. It’s a good school. You will have smaller intro classes there. She missed the bigger classes at Cornell because she transferred in.

12

My D is having a time of her life at Barnard! It is true that the students at Barnard are on the “edgy” side. She is nowhere near “laid-back”. My D loves trendy fashion, cool restaurants and is always looking for adventure in NYC.

We are lower-middle income family so there are financial limit. She works part-time. She buys clothing from thrift stores (I didn’t know NYC even has one!) so most of her spending is eating out which is only on weekends and/or special occasions. Also she finds lots of free events in and around campus. Her close circle of friends includes a girl from uber-rich urban family and a girl from redneck town. Somehow they are getting along just fine.

Because of this, she feels very safe!
She loves coming back to her all-women dorm at the end of the day. Although she spends a lot of time on Columbia campus and has lots of friends there, she feels the bond among the Barnard kids are very strong. She would hate to have boys walking around in her dorm hallways. She attends parties at Columbia dorms and fraternities. That’s ideal for her because she doesn’t want Barnard dorms trashed with beer bottles and covered in vomits!

Different people want different things. It didn’t work out for moneydad’s D, but Barnard is wonderfully working for my D. You will spend four precious years of your life. Think hard. What kind of everyday do you want to have?

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re #11 :“She attends parties at Columbia dorms and fraternities”
Fraternities yes. D went to one, hated it. Said she thought it was actually dangerous. She was scared.
As for dorms, they don’t have swipe access to get into Columbia dorms…
So if they know someone who lets them in,. sure.
I’d be surprised if there’s much room for parties in Columbia dorms either though.
There was a thread on the columbia subforum where those guys complained about lack of common spaces there, too.
Also not sure how much fun such dorm parties would be, with RAs and all.

But I agree reasonable people can prefer either environment, and what is a “con” to one person can be a “pro” to someone else. It just goes back to individual preference.

I only gave that one perspective because I was directly asked for it.

14

From my financial-aid reliant daughter’s experiences – Yes, there are thrift stores! Morningside Heights abuts Harlem, and if you view that as a good thing rather than a bad thing… then there are some nice values to be found.

My daughter also found plenty of free stuff to do, with free food. After her first year, she always had housing with cooking facilities, so no longer had to pay for or be reliant on a meal plan. (Barnard financial aid assumes a full meal plan, but the dollars go a lot farther when you are buying and preparing your own food. Not an option for first years, but in subsequent years you can cut back and enroll in a more limited plan).

And yes, NYC also has a huge amount of stuff to do that costs $$, but in addition to her work-study job my daughter had jobs through the agencies (Barnard Bartending / Babysitting) – and the bartending job was particularly lucrative over time. High hourly rate, a gratuity or tips, and very often leftover food or wine that they were encouraged to take home. So as long as you don’t mind working more hours to pay for extras, and don’t expect to do the more pricey things on a regular basis, you probably would find a good balance of activities that you could comfortably afford.

And my daughter also made friends with many males she met through other activities - that never was a problem and she was never the type who would have wanted to hang around her or anyone else’s dorm room all of the time. And I think she appreciated that her dorm life was fairly quiet and had more of a sense of privacy after the first year, when she was no longer in a corridor-style dorm.

I do think that it somewhat depends on what sort of college life you envision. Do you want a more traditional college-campus experience in a community that is essentially a college town? Or do you want the more vibrant, urban experience, where there is a sense of your school being part of the larger surrounding city? My daughter wanted NYC --her other top choice was NYU and her backup school was Fordham LC - and she really detested suburban campuses that she visited.

That brings up another issue about cold & rain. It gets cold, it snows, it rains in NYC too. But the compact campus size means that students don’t have far to go to get to class – and I think that even after all the construction most places on the Barnard side of the street will still be accessible via the tunnels. So basically, less outdoor distance to cover to get to class – even a class at the opposite end of the Columbia campus is only a relatively short walk. Barnard has a 4 acre campus. Columbia’s campus is 36 acres. Cornell is 745 acres (some of them absolutely gorgeous).

So again: I do think it is going to come down to what you want in a college experience.

15

I should mention that, for those who prefer that environment, there are also all-female dorms at Cornell, as well as live-in all-female sorority houses for upperclassmen who pledge. And when people decide to choose roommates to share their houses or apartments with, they can decide to go in with their female friends. So there are ways to avoid living with the men there too. But you have a choice. And if you like fraternity parties, there are lots of them at Cornell. After what she experienced in NYC, D2 never went to a frat party at Cornell. But lots of people do go.

I should also mention D2 grew up in and around NYC, so being in, and experiencing, NYC was no big deal to her whatsoever. Already “been there done that”, to an extent. So the charms of the city were not as powerful to her as they likely are to many who matriculate there. She didn’t go there because she was enamored with being in the city. Though she didn’t realize she actually wouldn’t like it.

Comments about walking around a lot in the elements are absolutely true.

16

Once again, thank you all for your meaningful replies! After many long conversations and reflection as to where I see myself most, I’ve decided to attend Cornell! Go big red!!!

17

Thanks for the update!

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Thanks for letting everyone know your final choice! I do think that the choice between Cornell & Barnard really comes down to the very different settings (large campus vs. small; urban vs. college town; etc.) --and that does indeed make a difference in college life and comfort level.

19

Thanks for letting us know.

"Go big red!!! "
+1. Though you may only actually hear that if you go to a hockey game there.

Make the most of it. D2s extracurricular involvements played a big role in her subsequent work life.

Good luck !

PS if you can do this you should. If you do, you will already know people when you get there. Which is very helpful those first few months, when everyone is just mulling around. Basically everyone I’ve heard about who has done it loved it.
https://odyssey.coe.cornell.edu/

20

Congrats and good luck!!!