Cornell vs UPenn for prelaw help. I got full ride to both schools

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hi guys! I’m planning on applying to law school right out of undergrad. I did get into duke but my parents will not let me go because it’s too far and I have to pay 4k a year. Grade inflation and gpa are factors.

UPenn pros:

  • No transferring necessary to CAS cause I already got accepted to CAS (more convenient in terms of internal transferring and save time and effort)

  • In the city so more internship opportunities??? Close to nyc

  • Close to home (nyc)

  • Can double major/ minor easier

  • Can take law school classes at Carey Law and wharton classes

  • Might be easier than cornell in humanities???

  • Might be better for employment in case i want stay in the college i got admitted to (CAS) if law school doesnt work out

  • PPE (philosophy politics and economics) major (from what I heard) is doable to get a good grade in (for prelaw)

  • More flexibility basically

  • 3+3 law program

  • Can take legal studies classes at Wharton and other business classes

UPenn Cons:

  • There might be grade deflation

  • No friends going here :disappointed:

  • Stem classes are hard

  • For PPE (philosophy economics and politics) major you need to take Econ class (heard Econ is hard is might hurt gpa) and general foundations also have math (I am awful at math) :sob:

Cornell Pros:

  • My friends are there

  • Location is nice

  • Nice food

  • Can still do law school even if I stay in AAP (the Art architecture and planning college i got admitted to) since law school don’t care about undergraduate major

  • Have 3+3 program (big one) and i dont have to take the LSAT to get into Cornell law early also higher chances of getting in for Cornell student

  • Full ride to HEOP program (more advising and support for fgli)

  • Humanities majors (like government in case you want to transfer to CAS) is said to be manageable

  • Can minor/take classes in other colleges within Cornell

  • Good feeder to law (they had 10 ppl that got in Harvard law)

Cornell Cons:

  • difficult to internally transfer to other colleges (like ILR which is great for law school (more fit wise) or maybe CAS) cause it’s just like college admissions where i have to write essays and it’s not guaranteed

  • Art major may not be lucrative if i decide to stay in aap (and law school doesn’t accept me)

  • 3+3 law program is not guaranteed for acceptance so you might still need to take LSAT anyways

  • Grade deflation

  • Competitive clubs

  • Far away

  • Cannot double major across colleges

  • Stem classes are hard

  • For gov/fine art major even though there’s no math/econ requirement I have to take stem classes for degree requirement in cas (stem is hard at Cornell)

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STEM classes are hard everywhere, but it sounds like you are not planning on majoring in STEM, so this shouldn’t be a factor.

Both schools are close to NYC. It’s a little easier to get to NYC from UPenn than Cornell, but again, it’s a small factor.

If you’re not good at math, you shouldn’t be taking economics.

Both schools are fine for admittance to law school. This shouldn’t be a factor in your choice.

If I were you, I’d boil it down to urban vs rural plus the schools you got into. Do you want to do the AAP? Have you ever been to either school? Have you spent time in a rural location like Ithaca?

What does your gut say? In the end, when it’s hard to make a decision, go with your gut.

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I normally would not say this, but I think you are (understandably) overcomplicating things. Your quality of life and accessibility will be so much better at Penn that I can’t imagine what Cornell offers that could meaningfully overcome its dreadful location and weather. Penn is a slam dunk as between those two if the financial proposition is essentially the same.

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4

Ithaca is in the middle of NY State and not close to NYC. For comparison:

You can drive from Philly to NYC in about 90 mins (maybe another 15-20 depending on where in NYC you’re going). Driving from Ithaca takes well over 4 hours.

You can take a train from Philly Penn Station to NY Penn Station in 2 hours. From Ithaca, it takes 5 hours.

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Not surprisingly, Ithaca has been considered for recognition as the top college town in the nation. This is an example from 2014:

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You will meet new people and make new friends at any college.

You aren’t planning to major in a stem area at Penn…so not sure why this matters at either of these universities.

If you got accepted to Cornell, presumably you can do well in these courses.

And you will need to do some stem courses at Penn.

You need to start by eliminating things that are the same at both colleges…(STEM course, grade deflation, etc.) then look at the things that are REALLY different about the two schools and look carefully at the pro and con list.

If you really want easy accessibility to NYC, it’s going to be a lot easier from Penn than Cornell.

Both are excellent colleges.

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OP- if you are worried about grade deflation, do not even think of taking law school classes as an undergrad.

Law students at both law schools do one thing and one thing only- study. The grades from the first two years of law school are highly determinative of many important things- including law review, whether a student is going to be able to get a federal clerkship after graduating, getting a biglaw job at a top firm after L2 which will lead to the job after graduation, the journals and clinics for the final year, etc. You cannot imagine how competitive those classes are. So if you are truly committed to “GPA protection” (which I don’t advocate, you are in undergrad to learn, not to get your ticket punched, but you do you), you cannot take law school classes as an undergrad. You’ll be 18 or 19 competing with 26 year olds who have already completed their undergrad education, worked for a few years, and have nothing on their plate but studying.

You can also put aside the question of going straight to law school. Maybe you will and maybe you won’t. There are thousands of other careers you don’t even know about right now! And some that haven’t been invented yet.

If you aren’t actually interested in the major you were admitted to at Cornell, this seems easy- go to Penn.

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At Penn or Cornell, you will need to take Calculus if you wish to major in PPE ie., for economics, but you do not have to major in Economics to go to law school.
These are the classes you’d have to take freshman year for PPE at Penn:
MATH 1070: Mathematics of Change, Part 1; and MATH 1080: Mathematics of Change, Part 2

If the^class is too hard or if you choose to major in something else than Econ, you will not need to take these classes and can instead take Intro to statistics.

You can take the class below for the Formal Reasoning requirement, but you can also take an intro to CS, logic&philosophy, linguistics, etc. Classes.

MATH 1700 Ideas in Mathematics

Topics from among the following: logic, sets, calculus, probability, history and philosophy of mathematics, game theory, geometry, and their relevance to contemporary science and society.

The Quantitative Analysis requirement, however, is different:
In contemporary society, citizenship, work and personal decision-making all require sophisticated thinking about quantitative evidence.

Students in the College must complete a course that uses mathematical or statistical analysis of quantitative data as an important method for understanding another subject. Through such study, students learn to think critically about quantitative data and the inferences that can be drawn from these data. They also gain experience with the use of quantitative analysis to interpret empirical data and to test hypotheses.

Courses in calculus and computer science do not fulfill the requirement because these courses do not require students to analyze actual data sets with the goal of evaluating hypotheses or interpreting results. To count toward the Quantitative Data Analysis Requirement, a course must include such data analysis:

  • COMM 2100: Quantitative Methods in Communications
  • CRIM 1200: Statistics for the Social Sciences
  • ECON 2300: Statistics for Economists
  • PSCI 1800: Introduction to Data Science
  • PSCI 1801: Statistical Methods for Political Science
  • SOCI 2000: Sociological Research Methods
  • SOCI 2010: Social Statistics
  • STAT 1010: Introductory Business Statistics
  • STAT 1020: Introductory Business Statistics
  • STAT 1110: Introductory Statistics
  • STAT 1120: Introductory Statistics

At Cornell, would you major in URS? (It sounds like the most logical major). HEOP is great (really helps - email Penn to ask if they have a summer bridge or orientation program for FGLI admitted students like Fsy at Yale or Cornell) but since your scholarship is tied to HEOP, it means you could only transfer to one of the contract colleges, not CAS.
URS sounds awesome and you’d spend 1 semester in NYC if you choose (could be in Rome or India, too).

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Do you want to go to college in a major metro area (Penn) or do you want to go to college in a more remote but wonderful college town (Cornell).

What do YOU want? Both are excellent universities.

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Since finances are not a factor, focus on personal fit (ex. location, major, social fit, etc.). This is a case where two reasonable people could make two different choices.

Congrats on the wonderful acceptances.

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Cutting to the chase, your Cons for Penn mostly strike me as either avoidable (you do NOT have to do PPE), or duplicated with Cornell anyway (grade deflation and hard STEM classes).

So all I really see remaining is you have friends going to Cornell and not Penn, and I agree with the other poster–you’ll make plenty of friends in college.

So given what you said, Penn CAS seems like a great fit for you.

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This seems the #1 factor that makes the best decision UPenn.

Prelaw students at Penn (or Duke or any other school) do not typically take law classes as undergrads: it is not recommended. Put that idea out of your head. Both schools will be hard, but both schools send plenty to Harvard and other top law schools, right out of undergraduate.

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Did you ask Duke financial aid office if the school would match your zero COA at U Penn & Cornell ?

What would you study / major at Duke ?

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IMO there is zero reason to rehash Duke when there are two absolutely outstanding full-ride options that the OP and parents are happy with.

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You may not fully understand my reasons for asking OP the questions listed above. Answering these questions may help OP to better understand his/her preferences and options. Additionally, I do encourage OP to ask Duke to match the COA of the two Ivy League schools so that OP may fully consider all of the 3 outstanding options as it is clear that OP has no clear preference at this time.

There does not seem to be any reason to rule Duke out at this time due to travel distance other than an unreasonable apprehension or fear.

I read OP’s statement: “I did get into Duke but my parents will not let me go…” as “I did get into Duke, but my parents will not let me grow.”

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Penn, by a mile. Easy to get home on Amtrak, cheap to get home on Septa and NJTransit. You’re already in the right school for you. Classes are going to be tough in both schools.

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In other words, this is not a straight, apples-to-apples comparison. You were admitted to a pre-professional school at Cornell and the liberal arts school at Penn. And you’re worried that you may have painted yourself into a corner at the architecture school. Well, you sorta have. A lot of aspiring architects would kill to be in your position, but that may not be you.

I would ask whether law is something you actually want to do or are you just ticking off different ways to make money? If you’re really not sure, maybe the liberal arts school (CAS) is the way to go.

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I would generally agree but in this case the parents DO let the kid go far from home, either Philadelphia or Ithaca.

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How do you like the math-adjacent subject of logic? Logic comes into play in law and the LSAT; it is not surprising that math and philosophy majors tend to do well on the LSAT.

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There is zero benefit to take a law school course as an undergrad. Zero. And if you aren’t strong in math, why would you want to take a class at Wharton?

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